United Ireland

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 07:03PM #1

There have been a few threads lately where this has been discussed,

So what do you think of it, What would you like to see it be, how would you like it to be structured etc.

When do you think it will come about and How(if ever)

If you dont think it will happen then Why and why shouldent it happen?

What compromises do you think would need to be made with Unionists if it dose happen?

Personally I think it will happen in the Next 50 years and I hope it dose as NI as a state cannot exist without British money being put into it and as long as it dose exist sectarian violence will never be far away.
I also believe that it would be a great opportunity to reform and restructure the southern state, both economically and politically.

catbear · 12-10-2010 07:11PM

Of course there could be a united Ireland. Just ditch the Euro and rejoin GB and Ireland would be united. Simple.

Liam Byrne · 12-10-2010 07:16PM

Nothing to do with me. We voted to let Northern Ireland decide for itself.

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 07:17PM

catbear wrote: »

Of course there could be a united Ireland. Just ditch the Euro and rejoin GB and Ireland would be united. Simple.

Not really considering that by far the vast majority of people living on the island don't want to join th UK(GB is an Island that Ireland is to the west of)

So you think a UI wont happen then?
Why?

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 07:18PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Nothing to do with me. We voted to let Northern Ireland decide for itself.

Well you can have an opinion, Do you think it will happen or should happen?

Permabear · 12-10-2010 07:24PM

This post has been deleted.

seaniedearg · 12-10-2010 07:28PM

the northern nationalists will really be keen to take their piece of our national debt, which is somewhere between 8000 euros and godlknowswhat per man woman and child..

mouthwatering prospect for them alright

southsiderosie · 12-10-2010 07:30PM

I don't think the Republic can afford the North. The Germans could barely afford reunification. There would have to be some kind of financial assistance from London to ease the transition. There would also have to be significant economic development in the North over the next few decades, and in particular an expansion of private sector employment.

There would also have to be a complete re-alignment of wage and labor laws, welfare reform, and tax laws.

IMO, Ireland handled European integration very poorly, so I am not optimistic about what the process of Irish integration would be like.

Denerick · 12-10-2010 07:31PM

In before da clusturfúck.

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 08:04PM

Denerick wrote: »

In before da clusturfúck.

This isent AH, And that wasent very helpfull,:rolleyes:

catbear · 12-10-2010 08:37PM

deise go deo wrote: »

Not really considering that by far the vast majority of people living on the island don't want to join th UK(GB is an Island that Ireland is to the west of)

So you think a UI wont happen then?
Why?

Reread my post and tell me what makes you think it wouldn't happen. Take your time now, think about it first.

southsiderosie · 12-10-2010 08:40PM

catbear wrote: »

Of course there could be a united Ireland. Just ditch the Euro and rejoin GB and Ireland would be united. Simple.

I think the OP is referring to a 32-county united independent Irish Republic.

dkin · 12-10-2010 08:48PM

Why would they want to join the ROI? First thing I tell any northern nationalist is how lucky they are not to be living in the Republic as it's a disgrace of a country. The North has come on a long way and thankfully the past is behind us.

We are all reintegrating in the EU now, so the future for NI will be as an independent country within the EU if the status quo was to change. Something similar may well happen in Belgium too.

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 08:49PM

catbear wrote: »

Reread my post and tell me what makes you think it wouldn't happen. Take your time now, think about it first.

No need to be so condescending :rolleyes:

I was, as I'm sure you are aware, talking about a United Ireland Independent of any other country.

Do you think Ireland will Rejoin the UK?
Do you think there will Be An Independent UI?

jugger0 · 12-10-2010 08:52PM

I would love to see a united Ireland. Northern Ireland isnt a country, its ridiculous when you think about it, our tiny island split in 2 by another country

ive always wondered what the EU's opinion is on Britains occupation of our country.

To be honest it will never happen with the unionists, i mean they despise us and dont see themselves as Irish anyways. There should be no compromise, Ireland for the Irish, if you want to be British go live in Britain.

alex73 · 12-10-2010 09:08PM

Not A N O T H E R united ireland thread.

Yes there will be IF all the people in the north want it ( I mean a good 60% min)

Personally the status quo works.. (certainly the rep does not have the money to fund the north)

Either way I don't care,, its an idea that is not worth killing innocent people for (like the atrocity in Omagh)

Given the total anti orange sentiment in the south, I can't seem a united Ireland ever, there is no need, no will, no consensus, and no democrate mandate for one.

jock101 · 12-10-2010 09:10PM

jugger0 wrote: »

I would love to see a united Ireland. Northern Ireland isnt a country, its ridiculous when you think about it, our tiny island split in 2 by another country ive always wondered what the EU's opinion is on Britains occupation of our country.

To be honest it will never happen with the unionists, i mean they despise us and dont see themselves as Irish anyways. There should be no compromise, Ireland for the Irish, if you want to be British go live in Britain.

I think you will would find Herman the German and Pierre the Frenchy, dont give a Euro about this nasty little country. "If you want to be British go live in the 6 counties of the United Kingdom"! if you want to be Irish go live in the 26 Freestate counties! :rolleyes:

ULSTER SAYS NO!:mad:

TokenWhite · 12-10-2010 09:15PM

deise go deo wrote: »

There have been a few threads lately where this has been discussed,

So what do you think of it, What would you like to see it be, how would you like it to be structured etc.

When do you think it will come about and How(if ever)

If you dont think it will happen then Why and why shouldent it happen?

What compromises do you think would need to be made with Unionists if it dose happen?

Personally I think it will happen in the Next 50 years and I hope it dose as NI as a state cannot exist without British money being put into it and as long as it dose exist sectarian violence will never be far away.
I also believe that it would be a great opportunity to reform and restructure the southern state, both economically and politically.

Not really strongly for or against it, it's not really something that I think needs to happen, who benefits? If anything it would probably cause more hassle than it solves, at least if it happens in the near future. You mentioned that you believed there would be less secterian violence in a United Ireland, I would have thought it would get much worse, something akin to the troubles. And in fairness, it as much a unionists home as it is a republicans, certainly they would have more claim to northern ireland than a southerner.

Maybe somewhere down the line when nationalists significantly outnumber unionists it might make sense to do it, but by the time that day comes, there will probably be more pressing issues than 'who do I pay taxes to', because in the greater scheme of things, assuming there is no discrimination involved, I don't think that stuff really matters, or at least I don't think it should matter.

alex73 · 12-10-2010 09:17PM

jock101 wrote: »

I think you will would find Herman the German and Pierre the Frenchy, dont give a Euro about this nasty little country. "If you want to be British go live in the 6 counties of the United Kingdom"! if you want to be Irish go live in the 26 Freestate counties! :rolleyes:

ULSTER SAYS NO!:mad:

Technically all people born in Ireland are Irish,(that's the term the British gave us).

I think united as an Island we could work better together... But that idealism. The Raw divisions run too deep for unity.

Certainly at a human level your average Protestant is as decent as any catholic,,, Its the bad eggs in each basket that ruin things.

jock101 · 12-10-2010 09:22PM

alex73 wrote: »

Technically all people born in Ireland are Irish,(that's the term the British gave us).

I think united as an Island we could work better together... But that idealism. The Raw divisions run too deep for unity.

Certainly at a human level your average Protestant is as decent as any catholic,,, Its the bad eggs in each basket that ruin things.

Can you imagine Dublin trying to rule and fund the extra 2 million people in Ulster! Or them accepting the clumsy style of Government and extortionate tax rates used down there! I think not!

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 09:29PM

jock101 wrote: »

ULSTER SAYS NO!:mad:

Would that be Ulster the province or Ulster the NI state?

alex73 · 12-10-2010 09:29PM

jock101 wrote: »

Can you imagine Dublin trying to rule and fund the extra 2 million people in Ulster! Or them accepting the clumsy style of Government and extortionate tax rates used down there! I think not!

For sure the last think on Government mind at the moment in United Ireland.

But either way the north can't survive on its own as part of united Kingdom. Would probably be better it it took the Canada/Australia option retaining the Queen as head of state, but as a separate country. It would thrive as a micro nation in Europe. As part of the UK its always at the mercy of London (be that for good or for bad now that they want to cut funding).

However from a practical/Pragmatic point of view, Geologically would be better we were one country. (and government would not have to be in Dublin)

jackbenimble · 12-10-2010 09:31PM

I think the chances of a United Ireland happening in the foreseeable future are very slim. The main reason isn't that The ROI can't afford it (they can't), or that Loyalists would cause trouble (they would), but rather that NI has changed and is changing as we speak. In twenty years time there'll be three groups in NI instead of two - unionists, nationalists, and others, all about the same size. Discrimination is a thing of the past, inter-marriage is increasing, religiosity is declining, and attitudes are even changing in The Republic as the strangle hold of The RC church and it's twin brother simplistic nationalism are gradually weakening. It's hard to see an international border changing under these circumstance - why would anyone want to bother?

By the way, when I use the words 'foreseeable future', it doesn't mean I see a United Ireland beyond that, only that anything could happen beyond that, including a United Ireland, The Republic rejoining The Union, or a meteor destroying life on earth.

southsiderosie · 12-10-2010 09:32PM

jock101 wrote: »

Can you imagine Dublin trying to rule and fund the extra 2 million people in Ulster! Or them accepting the clumsy style of Government and extortionate tax rates used down there! I think not!

The tax issue isn't cut and dry. There are many in the north including those in the Unionist community, who would like to see harmonization of corporate tax rates. And there are those in the south who would love to see NI-style minimum wages and social welfare payments.

As emotion-driven as a lot of NI politics are, money issues have made - and will make - reunification more palatable. However, the ROI government's mismanagement of the economy pushed any practical hopes for reunification back at least two decades.

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 09:35PM

jackbenimble wrote: »

I think the chances of a United Ireland happening in the foreseeable future are very slim. The main reason isn't that The ROI can't afford it (they can't), or that Loyalists would cause trouble (they would), but rather that NI has changed and is changing as we speak. In twenty years time there'll be three groups in NI instead of two - unionists, nationalists, and others, all about the same size. Discrimination is a thing of the past, inter-marriage is increasing, religiosity is declining, and attitudes are even changing in The Republic as the strangle hold of The RC church and it's twin brother simplistic nationalism are gradually weakening. It's hard to see an international border changing under these circumstance - why would anyone want to bother?

By the way, when I use the words 'foreseeable future', it doesn't mean I see a United Ireland beyond that, only that anything could happen beyond that, including a United Ireland, The Republic rejoining The Union, or a meteor destroying life on earth.

Who are these others, Are they Irish, British, What? Or are they Northern Irish as distinct from just Irish?

Many people can see that having a border dividing the Island is a bad Idea that causes cross border smuggling, and waste due to duplication of services.

jock101 · 12-10-2010 09:37PM

I cant see it happening in our lifetime, we are too much culturally different now what 80 odd years later! I like having a land border with another State!

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 09:38PM

alex73 wrote: »

and government would not have to be in Dublin

The Government of an all island state would almost definitely have to be in Dublin as id is the largest city on the Island,

Where else would it be? Cork?
I know they claim to be the true Capital but you hardly take that seriously?:pac:

Wolfe Tone · 12-10-2010 09:38PM

A UI will happen in my lifetime. I am sure of it.

Now, I would not want a UI to simply be a few extra tds, no sir. I would not inflict the crap we have hear on my worst enemy. The north and south unifying should NOT simply be seen as an extra 6 counties. It should be seen as an opportunity to found a NEW country, one based on the 1916 proclamation, and its inherent ideals of unity, freedom and respect for every citizen. It should be viewed as a new start, a chance to rip up our out dated constitution and write a new one. A new beginning, the turning of the page on the past 800 years. All that will be irrelevant and finally confined to the history books.

Personally, although I do not know much about political systems, I think a system like the Éire nua one would be a good idea, that is a federal one with the historic provinces as "states"

But above all, it is a chance for a NEW beginning, with a NEW country.

jackbenimble · 12-10-2010 09:40PM

deise go deo said:

Who are these others, Are they Irish, British, What? Or are they Northern Irish as distinct from just Irish?

They wouldn't describe themselves as Unionist or Nationalist. They might call themselves Irish, British, Northern Irish, European, Citizens of The World, or any combination, or none at all.

Many people can see that having a border dividing the Island is a bad Idea that causes cross border smuggling, and waste due to duplication of services.

Then you'd better abolish every border in the world.

deise go deo · 12-10-2010 09:42PM

jock101 wrote: »

I cant see it happening in our lifetime, we are too much culturally different now what 80 odd years later! I like having a land border with another State!

What is Culturally different between a Nationalist living in Derry and someone living in Donegall?
What makes the Orange and Green Traditions on the Island any further apart culturally now than they have been for the last 400 years?

southsiderosie · 12-10-2010 09:42PM

alex73 wrote: »

But either way the north can't survive on its own as part of united Kingdom. Would probably be better it it took the Canada/Australia option retaining the Queen as head of state, but as a separate country. It would thrive as a micro nation in Europe. As part of the UK its always at the mercy of London (be that for good or for bad now that they want to cut funding).

How would this be possible? NI is totally reliant on subsidies and public service employment from its membership in the UK.

deise go deo wrote: »

Who are these others, Are they Irish, British, What? Or are they Northern Irish as distinct from just Irish?

Many people can see that having a border dividing the Island is a bad Idea that causes cross border smuggling, and waste due to duplication of services.

There is a huge problem of duplicate services within NI today, especially in Belfast, with each community demanding its own rec centers, social programs, etc.

Northern Ireland is a bigger economic basketcase than the ROI. I honestly do not see how reunification would be possible in the next 30-40 years unless there were real plans put in place on both sides of the border to get both economies going again, preferably in a harmonized fashion. But the mere hint of cross-border coordination provokes hysteria in some quarters.

United Ireland

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