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Red light runnners rant.

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  • 12-10-2010 9:52am
    #1
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭


    Ive been cycling in Dublin for 10 years and am getting mighty fed up of people cycling through red lights when people are crossing on a green man. I'd like to generalise about the type of people who do this but its impossible. Men, women, young and old, brainless blue bikers, commuters, couriers, racers and all the other morons who just have the "its my turn" attitude.

    As a cyclist I want to believe that my choice to cycle is superior to other forms of transport like the bus or a car. Its certainly supposed to be more enjoyable but now every day I wince as the latest hero blasts through the loolipop lady or cycles agressively in between a mother and her children crossing at the green man.

    I know I cant do anything because the kind of person who does this does not feel they are really doing anything wrong. Threads abound which try to explain why turning left into an empty road is less serious in a bike than a car. A trend started by the couriers and the fixed-pupil set has been copied in spades by the blue bike brigade many of whom seem to have sat on a bike for the first time and imagine they are now on the tour. This means that 60-70% of people are now just running every light.

    The problem is not going to be solved by the Gardai because the law forces them to take you to court. The most they can do is shout at you and hope it makes you amend your behaviour for a few weeks. Pedestrians are hopelessly powerless to affect this behaviour and the government has other things to worry about. A couple of times I have caught up to people and try to appeal to their better nature but its a dangerous game.

    So I just wanted to get this all of my chest. Its makes me angry that the group of people who by getting on the bike are trying to say something positive about health, the environment and the pleasure of cycling have so many a*sholes in their midst. I am going to try and care about it less cause sometimes when somethig hurts you have to let it go. I am not even going to make an appeal because its gone to far now. It has to be taken out of our hands - only savage penalties regularily enforced would stop this behaviour and that is not coming any time soon.

    Red light runners (you know who are) make me ashamed to be a cyclist.


«134567

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    #2
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Eventually enough people will be hurt and they will made get their **** togehter.


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    #3
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    lasers which vapourise cars or bikes that jump the lights is the only option IMHO

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #4
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Get rid of the red lights and "let God sort'em out" :D


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    #5
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,015 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    RLJ is easy to enforce. You just need to recruit a bunch of "specials" to hand out on-the-spot fines.

    ASBO culture not really culturally compatible with Ireland though, IMO. I'd rather a bit of rule bending than turning the country into the UK/Nazi Germany/Airstrip One (delete as appropriate).


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    #6
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    I think erecting a big rope from one lamp post to the other when the lights go red would sort them right out.


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    #7
    The Recliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭The Recliner


    I generally just shout and gesture at people who jump a red light when I am trying to cross

    Though most of them have headphones on so don't even notice :rolleyes:


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    #8
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Or BMX starting gates which leap up when the lights go red. Then film the chaos and stick it on youtube. Fun!

    On-the-spot fines would probably be the most effective deterrant for this. Problem is that if the cyclist has no ID on him, the Garda has no way of establishing it. Maybe on-the-spot fines where the Garda is allowed to confiscate the bike if he's not satisfied as to the cyclist's identity - make him go down to the station to pay his fixed penalty and collect his bike?


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    #9
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    I think that you should get a referees whistle and blow it furiously at all who offend you, bonus points for doing it on foot!


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    #10
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    I dont think Ireland has legislation for on the spot fines for cyclists. Id like to see some cycle cops on the road to put manners on people though.


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    #11
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,015 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    seamus wrote: »
    On-the-spot fines would probably be the most effective deterrant for this. Problem is that if the cyclist has no ID on him, the Garda has no way of establishing it.

    You don't need to establish ID.

    Demand money. Escort to cash point if necessary. Otherwise, confiscate bike and issue receipt.

    I believe the "escort to cash point" approach is how speeding fines are dealt with in France, at least for speeding foreigners.

    Not that I'm advocating such a system.


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    #12
    oflahero
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭oflahero


    There's no incentive not to. On a recent evening trip into town on the bus, I got a great view of a dark-clothes-no-lights ninja cyclist, who was hassling the bus no end by weaving all over the road and breaking the lights inbetween bus stops. I imagine it was driving the driver mental. It was driving me mental. All the way down Rathgar Road and into Rathmines.

    As we came up to the lights by the library, there was a bicycle Garda waiting at the lights. Oho, sez I, this should be good. But no, our boyo didn't skip a beat, just carried on through the red lights beside the bike cop. Bicycle cop didn't flinch. At the very least I expected a pursuit for lights-breaking, if not just for having no lights on the bike. Ruined my night, that did.

    (I'll still left turn on red when no-one's around though, and when not in the 'ambassador-for-cycling' lycra, so I'm no purist.)


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    #13
    rp
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭rp


    senordingdong wrote: »
    Eventually enough people will be hurt and they will made get their **** togehter.
    I agree that RLJ is common, stupid and welcome any enforcement, but is it really a big problem? Each year, Dublin averages around four cyclist-pedestrian interface events where the cyclist was at fault, and even if all or most of these were RLJs, it hardly represents the biggest danger in the city - I think people get more agitated over the fact that it is "cheating", queue-jumping, than the safety aspect of it, and, at the end of the day, Darwin has the solution.


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    #14
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    oflahero wrote: »
    There's no incentive not to. On a recent evening trip into town on the bus, I got a great view of a dark-clothes-no-lights ninja cyclist, who was hassling the bus no end by weaving all over the road and breaking the lights inbetween bus stops. I imagine it was driving the driver mental. It was driving me mental. All the way down Rathgar Road and into Rathmines.

    As we came up to the lights by the library, there was a bicycle Garda waiting at the lights. Oho, sez I, this should be good. But no, our boyo didn't skip a beat, just carried on through the red lights beside the bike cop. Bicycle cop didn't flinch. At the very least I expected a pursuit for lights-breaking, if not just for having no lights on the bike. Ruined my night, that did.

    (I'll still left turn on red when no-one's around though, and when not in the 'ambassador-for-cycling' lycra, so I'm no purist.)


    The Simple fact is, Cyclist/Cars/Trucks/Pedestrians Jump Red Lights because they can! Theres not enough enforcement.

    No Cyclist would Jump a Red Light if they thought they were going to get caught and have to pay a hefty fine.

    There was a thread recently about a cyclist stopped for not having any lights. The guy turned up at court but the Garda didn't! :rolleyes:

    It all comes down to enforcement of the law


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    #15
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭omri


    Not sure if there are any statistics for Ireland, but I was shocked when I found out how many pedestrians get injured when hit by cyclists in UK. There are even death cases every year.

    Someone I know got hit by cyclist, she got both her hips broken, passed out. Cyclist went away without helping his victim...horrible stuff...

    be safe!


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    #16
    emtroche
    Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭emtroche


    fenris wrote: »
    I think that you should get a referees whistle and blow it furiously at all who offend you, bonus points for doing it on foot!

    Already one of these apparently! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055946045&highlight=cycling+whistler


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    #17
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Was watching Traffic Cops last week on the BBC and they came behind a cyclist with no lights on and then proceeded to go through a red light. They asked him to pull over but he wouldn't so pulled in front of him with their car. They were just going to give him a warning for no lights but he has an attitude and wouldn't supply his details so they brought him to court. The judge decided to make an example of him and between no lights, cycling on a footpath and breaking the red light he was fined over £3,000.


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    #18
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    rp wrote: »
    I agree that RLJ is common, stupid and welcome any enforcement, but is it really a big problem? Each year, Dublin averages around four cyclist-pedestrian interface events where the cyclist was at fault, and even if all or most of these were RLJs, it hardly represents the biggest danger in the city - I think people get more agitated over the fact that it is "cheating", queue-jumping, than the safety aspect of it, and, at the end of the day, Darwin has the solution.

    considering my OH goes to dublin every couple of months and all i hear when she comes back is how shes dodging cycling RLJ's when crossing the road i'd say its becoming a problem

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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    #19
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    rp wrote:
    I agree that RLJ is common, stupid and welcome any enforcement, but is it really a big problem? Each year, Dublin averages around four cyclist-pedestrian interface events where the cyclist was at fault, and even if all or most of these were RLJs, it hardly represents the biggest danger in the city - I think people get more agitated over the fact that it is "cheating", queue-jumping, than the safety aspect of it, and, at the end of the day, Darwin has the solution.

    As with many statistics, I think the figures for cyclist-pedestrian incidents are not representative of the real situation. Every day on my commute I see people on bikes break red lights, and quite often the only thing that prevents their colliding with a pedestrian or another cyclist is the other person taking evasive action - sometimes I am the one having to take the evasive action. Those incidents will never appear in the official statistics as the near victims probably just put it down to experience, develop an even dimmer view of cyclists generally, and head on their way. So the safety aspect of it is a real issue.

    I'd like to think that Natural Selection would eliminate these idiots, but for the mostpart they seem to be very conscientious when it comes to their own personal safety so they tend not to play chicken with cars very much. Pedestrians and other cyclists, though, they seem to see as no danger to them so they have no qualms about actions which put those people at risk. Empathy is a concept which appears to be entirely alien to them.


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    #20
    p15574
    Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭p15574


    Saw a shocking example this morning, cycling along Morehampton Road. Just at the T-junction with Bloomfield Avenue (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=53.432436,84.462891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Leeson+Street,+26+Lower+Leeson+St,+Dublin+2,+County+Dublin+City,+Ireland&ll=53.326695,-6.243432&spn=0.004972,0.01031&z=17), stopped at the lights, along with another cyclist. The lights had been red for about 10 seconds when another cyclist goes sailing through at high enough speed, just as the cars starting moving off Bloomfield Avenue - must have given the first car driver a heart attack as he barely missed him. Really annoying that we'll all get tarred by idiots like that.


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    #21
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    ednwireland wrote: »
    considering my OH goes to dublin every couple of months and all i hear when she comes back is how shes dodging cycling RLJ's when crossing the road i'd say its becoming a problem

    It is defintely getting worse.
    doozerie wrote: »
    Empathy is a concept which appears to be entirely alien to them.
    I call it the "Its my turn" mentality. "I" do what "I" like because my Narcissistic personality disorder demands it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder


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    #22
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    kmick wrote: »
    It is defintely getting worse.
    There are a lot more cyclists on the road, thankfully.

    In my experience though, the proportions haven't changed all that much. There are more RLJ's because there are more cyclists and consequently there are also more people I see stopping beside me and waiting at the lights.

    Although all it really does is serve to highlight how few cyclists stop at every light.


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    #23
    mahoo
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭mahoo


    omri wrote: »
    Not sure if there are any statistics for Ireland, but I was shocked when I found out how many pedestrians get injured when hit by cyclists in UK. There are even death cases every year.

    Someone I know got hit by cyclist, she got both her hips broken, passed out. Cyclist went away without helping his victim...horrible stuff...

    be safe!

    I remember was someone killed on baggot street by a cyclist. 10 or more years ago i guess. They were going the the wrong way down the one way section and a pedestrian stepped out in front of them, obviously not expecting someone to be coming from that direction. must have been doing some speed.. any time i see a cyclist doing this now i feel like clothes lining them.


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    #24
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    Ive been cycling in Dublin for 10 years and am getting mighty fed up of people crossing on red men when people are cycling through a green light. I'd like to generalise about the type of people who do this but its impossible. Men, women, young and old, all morons who just have the "its my turn" attitude.

    As a cyclist I want to believe that my choice to cycle is superior to other forms of transport like the bus or a car. Its certainly supposed to be more enjoyable but now every day I wince as the latest pedestrian blasts through without looking or a mother and her children cross aggressively on a red man.

    I know I cant do anything because the kind of person who does this does not feel they are really doing anything wrong. Threads abound which try to explain why crossing when traffic is stationary is less serious than waiting for a green man. A trend started by the young fellas has been copied in spades by everyone, many of whom seem to be a pedestrian the first time and imagine they are now in a race. This means that 60-70% of people are now just running every light.

    The problem is not going to be solved by the Gardai because the law forces them to take you to court. The most they can do is shout at you and hope it makes you amend your behaviour for a few weeks. Cyclists are hopelessly powerless to affect this behaviour and the government has other things to worry about. A couple of times I have caught up to people and try to appeal to their better nature but its a dangerous game.

    So I just wanted to get this all of my chest. Its makes me angry that the group of people who by stepping off the footpad are trying to say something positive about health, the environment and the pleasure of walking have so many a*sholes in their midst. I am going to try and care about it less cause sometimes when somethig hurts you have to let it go. I am not even going to make an appeal because its gone to far now. It has to be taken out of our hands - only savage penalties regularily enforced would stop this behaviour and that is not coming any time soon.

    Red man runners (you know who are) make me ashamed to be a human.

    FYP

    -everyone runs red lights at some point or another


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    #25
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    I want to start my own rant, I'm not sure if this is the place to do it though...


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    #26
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    There was a thread recently about a cyclist stopped for not having any lights. The guy turned up at court but the Garda didn't!

    To be fair to the Garda, it's quite likely that s/he was listed for another court elsewhere on the same date and had to pick a priority. The Gardai frequently have to attend court on their own time (if they're not scheduled to be on duty that day) and may or may not get time off in lieu.


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    #27
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    To be fair to the Garda, it's quite likely that s/he was listed for another court elsewhere on the same date and had to pick a priority. The Gardai frequently have to attend court on their own time (if they're not scheduled to be on duty that day) and may or may not get time off in lieu.


    Well whatever, but the Fact is, the OP managed to find the time to turn up and the garda didn't. He/she may have had a valid reason for not turning up, but by not turning up, the opinion of "Joe Public" that the laws are not enforced enough, is well, enforced! (If ya know what i mean;))


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    #28
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    TinyExplosions wrote: »
    FYP

    -everyone runs red lights at some point or another

    Not sure what your point is. Are you one of the people who can justify in your own mind dodging in and out of pedestrians using your NPD as cover.


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    #29
    Oldlegs
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Oldlegs


    I remember getting pulled over by a Motor Bike Garda a few years ago. I was cycling along the Grand Canal towards Crumlin. Lights were red. I was stopped, but when the lights for the cross-traffic turned red I pulled away before I my lights had "fully gone green".

    Garda, who had been a fair bit behind me but on the blues and pulled me over. He basically pointed out that in the same way that I was jumping early, some other fella, usually a driver would jump late trying to make the light before it was fully red. So it was in my interest not to jump too early, and if in doubt delay. Point was well taken.

    A few days later I was in the same location, same red light. Same inclination to jump early, but held back. Next second a car comes flying over the bridge across the junction breaking a full red light, not even a yellow/red light.

    Message from the Garda was not only well learned, reckon he saved me from serious accident or worse.

    Sometimes the rules are there for a VERY valid reason.


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    #30
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    kmick wrote: »
    Not sure what your point is. Are you one of the people who can justify in your own mind dodging in and out of pedestrians using your NPD as cover.

    I think what he is saying is that not every red light breaking involved terrorizing mothers and children.

    Turning left on red for example. Another one is passing through pedestrian lights when the pedestrian has already crossed, heading into town opposite John of Gods is one. I don't go through it, but I wouldn't begrudge someone doing it, I don't think it's dangerous and to say "but it's still breaking a red light" is an oversimplification. Not everything is black and white.


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    #31
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    I think what he is saying is that not every red light breaking involved terrorizing mothers and children.

    Turning left on red for example. Another one is passing through pedestrian lights when the pedestrian has already crossed, heading into town opposite John of Gods is one. I don't go through it, but I wouldn't begrudge someone doing it, I don't think it's dangerous and to say "but it's still breaking a red light" is an oversimplification. Not everything is black and white.

    A lot of the red light breaking I see going into town every day involves pedestrians. I am not talking about cycling through an orange man when no-one is crossing. Spend ten minute at the junction of Gerorges street and Dame street any morning and tell me not eveything is black and white.


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