Audits becoming more frequent?

sydthebeat · 08-09-2010 12:11PM #1

Anyone notice a ridiculously short time between audits these days???

Ive been hit by another recently, only after having another confirmed acceptable not 4 weeks ago!!!!!!

and in this audit i have been asked for exactly the same item!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

methinks someone is trying to justify their job!!!!!

sinnerboy · 08-09-2010 01:47PM

MicktheMan · 08-09-2010 01:51PM

Same here Syd.
Had two audits within 4 weeks of each other ... and both audits related to the same ber assessment!!
Mick

Toplink · 08-09-2010 02:08PM

MicktheMan wrote: »

Same here Syd.
Had two audits within 4 weeks of each other ... and both audits related to the same ber assessment!!
Mick

Got my first commercial BER audit yesterday from one of the companies who won the tender to 'police' the process.

Not as straightforward as a domestic audit by the looks of it.

No6 · 08-09-2010 06:31PM

For the very few Ber's I am doing I am getting a lot of Data Audits too, more than one on some jobs. Is it just me or does anyone else feel the BER system is a very pointless load of crap and not worth carrying on with!!!

Jimbo · 08-09-2010 06:37PM

Been thinking that for a long while now. The constant auditing gives the impression that the seai are trying to work against the assessors rather than trying to assist.

BERmad · 08-09-2010 09:31PM

Hi,
What happens in these audits? I have done a fair few ratings and only been audited once and all I had to do was send in a picture.

No6 · 09-09-2010 12:44AM

BERmad wrote: »

Hi,
What happens in these audits? I have done a fair few ratings and only been audited once and all I had to do was send in a picture.

Its when you have an audit for nearly every one you send in that it gets to be a right pain in the ass, or even two audits on some!!! crazy.

chatterbox007 · 09-09-2010 09:27AM

I have to agree totally - a right pain. I thought you would not get more than one every 4 weeks. However that's not the case as I got another one after 2 weeks. I guess things are quiet in head office and auditors have too much time on their hands:rolleyes:!!

sydthebeat · 09-09-2010 01:56PM

its the photo audit that bugs me....

ive just been asked for another "send all" photos..... way too big to email, so we're talking burnt cd, and bubble wrap postage.....

pain in the ass..... :mad:

surely if you pass one photo audit thats proof enought that your carry out your duties in that regard....

No6 · 09-09-2010 05:20PM

If we were to assume there would be one of these audits for every BER and cost the time it takes to comply with the audit request will the price rise do you think??

muffler · 09-09-2010 05:55PM

On a slightly different note I have a friend who is a plumber and registered for the SEI scheme and he was telling me last week that he has had a very marked increase in the number of follow up inspections of his work.

Seems as if everyone is being affected.

No6 · 09-09-2010 10:53PM

but who is inspecting SEAI, they are the ones who really need a good dose of it!!!:D

sinnerboy · 10-09-2010 05:15PM

d'Oracle · 11-09-2010 02:08AM

I would hesitate to offer my opinion on how SEAI operate.
Might get me in trouble.....

I would imagine that the amount of BER's being done now is slowing up a bit.
What with mandatory certs having been done or else being ignored as word that there is absolutely no enforcement what so ever spreading.

WOuld this be true?
I don't really get to do huge amounts of them.
But less certs + auditors = more frequent audits surely.

king tayto · 11-09-2010 10:21PM

if anything i think theres more certs issued with the HES scheme, but less assessors. ive only done 14 since janurary but have gotten 2 audits. I would think that they are trying to get rid of assessors like myself that only do it part time (even though its necessary even on a small scale)

Jimbo · 01-10-2010 03:13PM

Just looking at the September Technical Bulletin, the compliance rate for audits is only 42%. Says alot about the whole system.

galwaytt · 04-10-2010 04:45PM

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would hesitate to offer my opinion on how SEAI operate.
Might get me in trouble.....

I would imagine that the amount of BER's being done now is slowing up a bit.
What with mandatory certs having been done or else being ignored as word that there is absolutely no enforcement what so ever spreading.

WOuld this be true?
I don't really get to do huge amounts of them.
But less certs + auditors = more frequent audits surely.

...or, it could just be down to boredom in the SEAI office......

muffler wrote: »

On a slightly different note I have a friend who is a plumber and registered for the SEI scheme and he was telling me last week that he has had a very marked increase in the number of follow up inspections of his work.

Seems as if everyone is being affected.

Well, I hope so, 'cos there's a lot of rubbish ones out there.....amhik.......:rolleyes: ....like an idiot, I deigned to use one from the SEI list in 07, rather than someone not: bigger fool me. I am currently 3k into removing and renewing (sic), all this work, to get it correct. :mad:

Count1 · 11-10-2010 09:21AM

Jimbo wrote: »

Just looking at the September Technical Bulletin, the compliance rate for audits is only 42%. Says alot about the whole system.

Personally, I am slightly dubious about that percentage although it does seem worryingly low depending on your point of view...

I was audited recently and they initially failed me ( gave me 1 penalty point) as I had not provided dimensions for a draught lobby. This draught lobby was actually the communal hall in an apartment block!:eek: It took three weeks for them to deal with my appeal before they acknowledged their mistake and withdrew the penalty point. This was despite me writing "draught lobby present as dwelling is an apartment and entry is through a communal hall" on my worksheet under the area where you tick "draught lobby present".

I am all for the auditing system in theory but I think they need to pay more attention to what they actually receive from the assessor before they make their decisions. Technically, I could measure up every communal hall in every apartment that I do but seriously................

Judging from a recent general email from SEAI, I would suspect that a lot of their non-compliance decisions are being questioned. ( this was the one where they said they will not deal with non-compliance queries over the telephone which is fair enough) It would be interesting to see how many appeals they have received and what that 42% becomes in two months time.

MaryB30 · 11-10-2010 04:09PM

I am on my fifth audit in 2 weeks. This one is a desk audit. The last one I failed as I had not shown the difference between two semi detached houses. On the photos I supplied One house was brown and other cream, It had a 6 ft dividing wall between the two. I was awarded 1 penalty point for not substantiating it was a semi d. Even though there was 6 photos issued to the audit from every direction. The BER result was correct and still is. I appealed and was given the generic answer that I should have drawn a line on the picture. Is this fair enough or am I losing the run of myself?????By the way I have spent quite a lot of time on these Audits. Who do I invoice????:mad::mad::mad:

king tayto · 11-10-2010 05:21PM

I myself have received one penalty point for submitting info with the wrong email address. I’ve been using this address with the SEI for the past 1.5 years with no comment from them. I wasn’t aware that my IT guy set my address up this way. I feel that this is petty.

I agree with Audits as it keeps assessors standards high, but nit picking with draft lobbies in apartments, drawing a line in a photo and audit information from the wrong email address is ridiculous. I don’t see how that improves assessors or the BER process.

MaryB30 · 11-10-2010 06:15PM

I also agree with the audits. But can common sense be applied. The are treating us like Cowboys where the public have that impression already. In my opinion that is.

No6 · 11-10-2010 11:38PM

MaryB30 wrote: »

I am on my fifth audit in 2 weeks. This one is a desk audit. The last one I failed as I had not shown the difference between two semi detached houses. On the photos I supplied One house was brown and other cream, It had a 6 ft dividing wall between the two. I was awarded 1 penalty point for not substantiating it was a semi d. Even though there was 6 photos issued to the audit from every direction. The BER result was correct and still is. I appealed and was given the generic answer that I should have drawn a line on the picture. Is this fair enough or am I losing the run of myself?????By the way I have spent quite a lot of time on these Audits. Who do I invoice????:mad::mad::mad:

Where in the name of god in the code of practice does it say you should draw a line on the photo?? ridiculous but I am afriad typical!! good question about who to invoice for audit fees, if you assume for every BER you submitt you will get a audit which will take an hour of your time how much will that put the cost of the damn things up by??

Count1 · 12-10-2010 08:28AM

MaryB30 wrote: »

I am on my fifth audit in 2 weeks. This one is a desk audit. The last one I failed as I had not shown the difference between two semi detached houses. On the photos I supplied One house was brown and other cream, It had a 6 ft dividing wall between the two. I was awarded 1 penalty point for not substantiating it was a semi d. Even though there was 6 photos issued to the audit from every direction. The BER result was correct and still is. I appealed and was given the generic answer that I should have drawn a line on the picture. Is this fair enough or am I losing the run of myself?????By the way I have spent quite a lot of time on these Audits. Who do I invoice????:mad::mad::mad:

That is truly shocking! Are you saying they failed you because they could not tell from the photos that the house is a semi-d?

chatterbox007 · 12-10-2010 09:07AM

I failed an audit on the very same thing. I appealed and they replied saying every photo should be marked. Again on my one it was very obvious it was a 3 bed semi. I had sent in unmarked photos in the past on previous audits and they were fine. What really annoyed me was that no one ever checked that the information I submitted in Deap was correct! (or maybe it was obvious afterall from the photo;))

sydthebeat · 12-10-2010 01:16PM

Count1 wrote: »

That is truly shocking! Are you saying they failed you because they could not tell from the photos that the house is a semi-d?

this is ridiculous.

who the hell cannot distinguish the subject house from a photograph!!!!

says more about the competence of the auditor than the assessor in my opinion.

and i must admit, ive never heard of marking a phtotgraph either.

ive had two photograph audits and all i did was copy to a cd and post them in. How can it not be obvious that the house is teh one thats photographed... it would be different if you were failed because it wasnt obvious ie of you took a photo of a terrace and had 7-8 houses in it.

sydthebeat · 12-10-2010 04:46PM

on this external photograph issue, this is what the auditors require regarding phototgraphs:

1

The Assessors name and Assessor number must be clearly noted in the submission

2

The photograph must be an external photograph of the dwelling

3

The photograph must clearly show the dwelling type

4

The photograph must clearly show the number of storeys of the dwelling

5

The dwelling type must clearly match the data entered in the DEAP XML for the BER assessment

6

The number of storeys must clearly match the data entered in the DEAP XML for the BER assessment

7

The photograph should be marked or outlined to identify the dwelling and be distinguishable from the adjacent properties.

8

The boundary separation from neighbouring properties either side, above and below, should clearly be visible.

9

Photograph evidence provided must show the presence of the external main entrance at ground in support of a maisonette

10

The photograph should show. If relevant, any storey which is a room in a roof.

It states "clearly" so i think if it can be argued that there is a clear and unambiguous photograph of the external of the dwellings, then is there really a need to alter a photograph???

MaryB30 · 12-10-2010 09:53PM

Yes Syd. Thats the generic response I got after my appeal. I just dont know! It seems they are punishing the people who take the effort to take and store photos, send them in padded envelopes and spend a day or two panicing about the audit. At this rate the next one I get I wont bother as I will get the same diciplinary point anyway. Roll on 12 points and I pay my renewal and start again. :rolleyes: I have respect for the BER system but this is getting too much.

SilverBER · 16-10-2010 09:43AM

I agree. The auditing is becoming a complete pain. Also, there is another factor creeping in to the process that looks dangerous - the auditors interpretation of things. A friend of mine had one of these new site visit audits. Its a 3 hour committment on site with the auditor who basically pulls your assessment to shreds. On this particular one (an apartment) he argued that (amongst other items) because (in his interpretation) the concrete floor slab had floorboards attached to them that it should have been entered as an unsealed suspended floor and stuck a penalty against him. There were also some other stuff about attic access, draught stripping percentages and primary heating losses. They are now at loggerheads.
But 3 hours plus travelling time - I ask you.

Jimbo · 16-10-2010 03:00PM

A concrete floor with floorboards should be inputted as an unsealed suspended floor? That's crazy. The auditor musnt have any grasp on the meaning of suspended floor. Definatly one to appeal.

No6 · 16-10-2010 08:02PM

chatterbox007 wrote: »

I failed an audit on the very same thing. I appealed and they replied saying every photo should be marked. Again on my one it was very obvious it was a 3 bed semi. I had sent in unmarked photos in the past on previous audits and they were fine. What really annoyed me was that no one ever checked that the information I submitted in Deap was correct! (or maybe it was obvious afterall from the photo;))

Where does it say that the photos should be marked, I always send in digital versions so I havn't marked anything ever. :eek:

Audits becoming more frequent?

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