Nothing has changed - they are still taking the pee out of the public!

gazzer · 11-10-2010 11:55AM

I work in the Civil Service and if I have to travel to Dublin for meetings etc and we cant do it by Video Conferencing I have to get the bus up. We can only claim for driving if we are bringing a lot of items up (say computer hardware etc) and even at that we have to send an email around the office to see if other items need to brought up or brought back down from Dublin.

I can claim back the cost of the bus fare back and €15 for lunch. Works out at €40. I usually end up driving up as I live in remote area that is not serviced by public transport so by the time I would drive to the bus station I may as well just continue onto Dublin. I use the €40 to pay for petrol and get a sandwich. €40 is fair enough imo.

We are not allowed claim driving expenses other than in exceptions stated above and that is only right imo. However then you see the expenses that our TD's are claiming and I just cant understand how they can justify it.

Why dont the Dublin based TD's use the bus to get from their home to the dail? Why do they need to be driven here there and everywhere. Other people either use public transport or their own car when they have to go to meetings or meet with clients. What makes the bloody TD's so special

wobbles-grogan · 11-10-2010 12:19PM

Why dont the Dublin based TD's use the bus to get from their home to the dail? Why do they need to be driven here there and everywhere. Other people either use public transport or their own car when they have to go to meetings or meet with clients. What makes the bloody TD's so special

If they got the bus they'd have to sit with the rabble. That just wouldnt do now would it? Its un-becoming of a TD to sit on a bus when they could be driven around.

i_love_toast · 11-10-2010 12:31PM

but the thing is the government are looking supposedly at every single avenue that will bring "IN" revenue i.e increased taxes. They have not ONCE looked at the ways of stopping revenue going" OUT" and wasted.

I always thought Brian Lenihan to be one of the most noble TD's out there in the sense that he doesn't seem to be just there to milk the system. I just dont know why he hasn't snapped and stripped the expenses regime to the bone.

Is there anyone in the Dail right now working on a whole new legislation for the banks and goverment policies in the future....no! to be honest if we do get out of this recession I can bet that no change will be made to how this country is run, nothing will be learned from the mistakes and the exact same disaster will repeat itself again in the next 50 years....

wobbles-grogan · 11-10-2010 12:40PM

I have a feeling things will be much different if we get out of this recession, simply because the only way we are going to get out is to stand up as a people and shout.

I come on here pretty much every day and every day is a new story of anger at the current running of the country. This recent scandal is just one of many that takes the biscuit. Hell, I'm surprised there's any biscuits left!

People will sooner or later get very sick of our political system and protest. That's the only way to change from what i can see. Electing a new government from the same crop of crooks wont change a thing. Peaceful protest. That's the only way to change in my opinion. (I say peaceful because another thread on here recently showed a significant portion of people wouldn't mind violence. That's just stoopid)

rua327 · 11-10-2010 12:53PM

REVOLUTION is the only way. A rebirth of the Irish State is LONG overdue. THEN they will listen.

Anyone up for it?

-Chris- · 11-10-2010 01:02PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

All expenses taken by members of the Dail & Seanad are now published monthly on the Oireachtas website. Most of them are still unvouched for.

I can't find this, anyone got a link?

i_love_toast · 11-10-2010 01:12PM

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

I have a feeling things will be much different if we get out of this recession, simply because the only way we are going to get out is to stand up as a people and shout.

I come on here pretty much every day and every day is a new story of anger at the current running of the country. This recent scandal is just one of many that takes the biscuit. Hell, I'm surprised there's any biscuits left!

People will sooner or later get very sick of our political system and protest. That's the only way to change from what i can see. Electing a new government from the same crop of crooks wont change a thing. Peaceful protest. That's the only way to change in my opinion. (I say peaceful because another thread on here recently showed a significant portion of people wouldn't mind violence. That's just stoopid)

i agree with you but there something i dont understand. How come in this day in age of media with everyone using the internet, social network, tweeting, mobile phone, iphones etc that a decent march in the Irish cities cannot by organised. As far as i can tell most of the previous marches where from the old fashioned way of posters stuck on lampposts here and there. Why isnt facebook being used by protest organizers to is full power?25 years ago there would be over a hundred thousand marching on the capital on a monthly basis....

Why do we need to march?The people the office dont pay attention care if we march, its the international community and more importantly the EU that we need to show our frustration to.

Amhran Nua · 11-10-2010 01:27PM

i_love_toast wrote: »

i agree with you but there something i dont understand. How come in this day in age of media with everyone using the internet, social network, tweeting, mobile phone, iphones etc that a decent march in the Irish cities cannot by organised.

Do you want to be seen marching behind the SWP, RBB and Sinn Féin? What you'll have is a small but colourful and well organised group at the front, and a hundred thousand people behind them that want nothing to do with them, but appear to be supporting them. The far left have done more to keep protests off the streets than any amount of political spin.

Mark200 · 11-10-2010 01:36PM

Can I ask what people expenses people think TDs incur when the Dail is open, besides transport?

There's no reason why TDs wouldn't run up work-related expenses just because the Dail is closed. They do a lot more besides going to the Dail.

Mark200 · 11-10-2010 01:37PM

gazzer wrote: »

Why dont the Dublin based TD's use the bus to get from their home to the dail? Why do they need to be driven here there and everywhere. Other people either use public transport or their own car when they have to go to meetings or meet with clients. What makes the bloody TD's so special

What TDs (besides ministers) don't use public transport or their own car? And the reason why ministers get driven around is because they are busy and need to be able to take phone calls at any time etc. Imagine Cowen ringing up Brian Lenihan to talk about the budget, and Brian Lenihan picks up saying "sorry can't talk now, driving!"

Biggins · 11-10-2010 01:42PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Can I ask what people expenses people think TDs incur when the Dail is open, besides transport?

There's no reason why TDs wouldn't run up work-related expenses just because the Dail is closed. They do a lot more besides going to the Dail.

Yes, there is book launches (even anti-science ones! :rolleyes: ), funerals, racing tents to visit, the openings of motorways, the public functions that rehash marvellous job numbers that they are going to create. There is the golfing outings with their business mates in the banking and development industry and on and on and on...

wobbles-grogan · 11-10-2010 01:42PM

Mark, I'm not saying racking up expenses outside of the dail term is bad, im saying the AMOUNT of expenses racked up is the problem. These people are already on big money, being able to claim expenses outside of that is ridiculous.

Ill sum up what I think.
No TD should have access to expenses AT ALL. They're paid enough anyway.

Edit: And to back up why I know they're on enough to pay for everything they need for their job themselves:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0901/1220218691049.html

Yes, they have gone down since, but not by enough.

Mark200 · 11-10-2010 01:50PM

Biggins wrote: »

Yes, there is book launches (even anti-science ones! :rolleyes: ), funerals, racing tents to visit, the openings of motorways, the public functions that rehash marvellous job numbers that they are going to create. There is the golfing outings with their business mates in the banking and development industry and on and on and on...

Yeah, I'm aware this is just another anti-FF 'who cares about the facts' thread.

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Mark, I'm not saying racking up expenses outside of the dail term is bad, im saying the AMOUNT of expenses racked up is the problem. These people are already on big money, being able to claim expenses outside of that is ridiculous.

Ill sum up what I think.
No TD should have access to expenses AT ALL. They're paid enough anyway.

Edit: And to back up why I know they're on enough to pay for everything they need for their job themselves:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0901/1220218691049.html

Yes, they have gone down since, but not by enough.

That pay increase was in accordance with a pay increase for the whole public sector. The TDs have a public sector grade that determines their wages, just like all other public sector workers.

And the idea of eliminating all expenses is just unrealistic and very short-sighted. I'm not saying there's no space for improvement in the conditions for expenses, but to say that they should have to pay for all work-related expenses is a bit ridiculous. Brian Cowen should really have to pay for his own flights when his travelling to America on St Patricks day, for example?

If anyone can find me any objectionable expenses claims then fair enough, but so far everyone in this topic has been complaining based solely on the amount rather than actual considering what these expenses claims might have actually been for.

wobbles-grogan · 11-10-2010 01:55PM

mark200 wrote:

And the idea of eliminating all expenses is just unrealistic and very short-sighted. I'm not saying there's no space for improvement in the conditions for expenses, but to say that they should have to pay for all work-related expenses is a bit ridiculous.

And why is it? I have to pay for my work related expenses. I have to pay to drive the 22 miles to work every day. They get it in mileage allowances. And take it from me, I'm on a tiny fraction of 100,000 a year. Why do they get paid to drive to work, so they can get paid to be there?

Biggins · 11-10-2010 01:59PM

Mark200 wrote: »

...If anyone can find me any objectionable expenses claims then fair enough, but so far everyone in this topic has been complaining based solely on the amount rather than actual considering what these expenses claims might have actually been for.

...Well for a start I find it VERY objectionable that Trevor Sargent is getting €150 approx every day in expenses to travel from his Dublin home to the Dail.
I don't think petrol is that expensive yet or toll roads are charging that much are they?

Biggins · 11-10-2010 02:14PM

Angry TDs say they won't clock in like factory staff
By Aidan O'Connor

Saturday July 11 2009

FURIOUS Fianna Fail backbenchers have told Finance Minister Brian Lenihan that they will not be treated like factory workers who use swipe cards to clock in and out.
Mr Lenihan met with TDs from his party yesterday to discuss a new all-in-one expenses payment system.
Under the current system, TDs are paid allowances for their constituency office, telephone, mileage and overnight/daily subsistence.

Several TDs fear that they could lose up to €10,000 a year in expenses under the new system, while others may gain.
But backbenchers took grave insult at a proposal to issue them with swipe cards so their attendance could be recorded.

"Can you imagine a member of parliament with a constitutional role having to swipe in as if he were a factory worker," one furious TD said last night.

"What if a fella comes up on a Monday night and decides to go straight to his or her hotel. Is he meant to swipe his card first in the Dail?"

Politicians say the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission -- the body in charge of Leinster House -- is taking a 'Big Brother' approach to how TDs and senators are paid and conduct their business. Fianna Fail TD Mattie McGrath repeated his call yesterday to have the commission scrapped.
Fianna Fail's representatives on the commission -- FF TDs Seamus Kirk and Michael Mulcahy and Senators Cecilia Keaveney and Jim Walsh -- have also come under fire from party colleagues over their roles.

Mr Lenihan introduced legislation on Thursday that allows him to make changes to the expenses system at any time.
Backbenchers claimed that they did not know until the 11th hour that Mr Lenihan was about to make way for a change.
Under the current system, TDs are paid allowances for their constituency office, telephone, mileage and overnight/daily subsistence. The new payment would be linked to distance from the Dail and the size of their constituency.

Despite earning a basic salary of more than €100,000 a year, TDs believe they have taken their fair share of pain through the pension levy and pay cut.
Mr Lenihan is meeting Fianna Fail senators on Tuesday to discuss the proposed expenses changes.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/angry-tds-say-they-wont-clock-in-like-factory-staff-1817213.html

So they got their way in the end partly by pressurising - I suspect they didn't have to try too hard!
* They can clock in but don't have to clock out.
* Others can clock in for them!
* There no records to be kept as to how long they actually stay in the Dail deliberately! They can clock in and wander off - or get a collogue to do it for them one day and swap cards the next day!

Nijmegen · 11-10-2010 02:18PM

Every time there is a move to cut the gravy of expenses, pay, ministerial pensions (etc) there is a more concerted fightback from the back benches than over almost any other issue.

Strange.

wobbles-grogan · 11-10-2010 02:20PM

Nijmegen wrote: »

Every time there is a move to cut the gravy of expenses, pay, ministerial pensions (etc) there is a more concerted fightback from the back benches than over almost any other issue.

Strange.

If you'd have had so much gravy on your dinner for as long as they've had you'd find it hard to like your dinner without it too!!

Nijmegen · 11-10-2010 02:23PM

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

If you'd have had so much gravy on your dinner for as long as they've had you'd find it hard to like your dinner without it too!!

If my wife had to go out and whore herself on the streets to pay for the gravy I might reconsider.

Clearly not our politicians. We're their bitches now.

Mark200 · 11-10-2010 02:27PM

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

And why is it? I have to pay for my work related expenses. I have to pay to drive the 22 miles to work every day. They get it in mileage allowances. And take it from me, I'm on a tiny fraction of 100,000 a year. Why do they get paid to drive to work, so they can get paid to be there?

TDs do a lot more travelling than going to and from the Dail. An example I gave in my post (you must have clicked 'reply' before I edited) was that you just can't make Brian Cowen pay for his flights to America on St Patricks day. Yet that's what a "get rid of all expenses" plan would do.

Biggins wrote: »

...Well for a start I find it VERY objectionable that Trevor Sargent is getting €150 approx every day in expenses to travel from his Dublin home to the Dail.
I don't think petrol is that expensive yet or toll roads are charging that much are they?

Link? If that expense is solely for travel to and from the Dail then I definitely find that objectionable considering it's well known that he gets the train in... and in fact, I saw him on the train just last week.

Biggins wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/angry-tds-say-they-wont-clock-in-like-factory-staff-1817213.html

So they got their way in the end partly by pressurising - I suspect they didn't have to try too hard!
* They can clock in but don't have to clock out.
* Others can clock in for them!
* There no records to be kept as to how long they actually stay in the Dail deliberately! They can clock in and wander off - or get a collogue to do it for them one day and swap cards the next day!

They do more work than going to the Dail.

Nijmegen · 11-10-2010 02:30PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Link? If that expense is solely for travel to and from the Dail then I definitely find that objectionable considering it's well known that he gets the train in... and in fact, I saw him on the train just last week.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0602/1224271677114.html

Green TD for Dublin North Trevor Sargent was one of a number of TDs in band one (25-60km from Leinster House) who claimed €4,483.84 for March and the same amount for April.

wobbles-grogan · 11-10-2010 02:34PM

Mark200 wrote: »

TDs do a lot more travelling than going to and from the Dail. An example I gave in my post (you must have clicked 'reply' before I edited) was that you just can't make Brian Cowen pay for his flights to America on St Patricks day. Yet that's what a "get rid of all expenses" plan would do.

Link? If that expense is solely for travel to and from the Dail then I definitely find that objectionable considering it's well known that he gets the train in... and in fact, I saw him on the train just last week.

They do more work than going to the Dail.

Yes, they do a lot more work than going to the Dail, and yes, special things like going to america for St Patricks day, going abroad on job missions etc etc.. they could be kept.

But can you seriously tell me you see nothing wrong with 9 TD's (i think it was 9) claiming over €20,000 in expenses over 12 weeks? I have to work for a whole 52 weeks just to get that amount and they get it in 12 weeks AND get paid on top of it?

Nijmegen · 11-10-2010 02:36PM

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Yes, they do a lot more work than going to the Dail, and yes, special things like going to america for St Patricks day, going abroad on job missions etc etc.. they could be kept.

But can you seriously tell me you see nothing wrong with 9 TD's (i think it was 9) claiming over €20,000 in expenses over 12 weeks? I have to work for a whole 52 weeks just to get that amount and they get it in 12 weeks AND get paid on top of it?

It's €238 a day in expenses.

It's as if they spent every day checked into a four star hotel.

DementoR · 11-10-2010 02:45PM

Mark200 wrote: »

And the reason why ministers get driven around is because they are busy and need to be able to take phone calls at any time etc. Imagine Cowen ringing up Brian Lenihan to talk about the budget, and Brian Lenihan picks up saying "sorry can't talk now, driving!"

Yeh if only there was some invention that allowed people driving to talk on the phone while driving,some sort of hands free device....

Biggins · 11-10-2010 02:47PM

Mark200 wrote: »

Link? If that expense is solely for travel to and from the Dail then I definitely find that objectionable considering it's well known that he gets the train in... and in fact, I saw him on the train just last week.

Post 62.

Mark200 wrote: »

TDs do a lot more travelling than going to and from the Dail. An example I gave in my post (you must have clicked 'reply' before I edited) was that you just can't make Brian Cowen pay for his flights to America on St Patricks day. Yet that's what a "get rid of all expenses" plan would do.

Not objecting to genuine cases but let them apply to a public set-up office for ticket money.
Example?
Scenario: Cowen to his secretary, who then picks up a phone later.
"Will you ask the "office" to purchase myself a ticket to the states?"

What I am saying that is instead of just shelling out money on the off-chance that they might need it, they should be getting it on need basis with paperwork and genuine reason behind it.
NOT just forking out HUGE sums of money just because its free to them.

Mark200 wrote: »

They do more work than going to the Dail.

Yes, there is local street lights to fix and pot holes to look into.

wobbles-grogan · 11-10-2010 02:47PM

DementoR wrote: »

Yeh if only there was some invention that allowed people driving to talk on the phone while driving,some sort of hands free device....

I think your onto something there!

Hell, if it is ever invented, they could even claim the cost of said hands free device off the taxpayer! Woo! :rolleyes:

i_love_toast · 11-10-2010 03:04PM

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

I think your onto something there!

Hell, if it is ever invented, they could even claim the cost of said hands free device off the taxpayer! Woo! :rolleyes:

Ivor Callely did get these. But gosh darnit the silly company that he claimed a couple of thousand worth off made out these silly dockets that were out of date by 10 years the silly moo's.

He still protesting his innocence all the same because under "legislation" he did no wrong so atm he's trying to clear his name. Morality on the other hand doesnt come into question when there is legislation on your side!!

Yakult · 11-10-2010 03:15PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I fúcking hate this country.

Agree'd, but more so the dickheads running it..

Quandary · 11-10-2010 03:34PM

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Agree'd, but more so the dickheads running it..

surely you mean ruining it ?

CamperMan · 11-10-2010 03:35PM

I have given up reading the papers, it just feckin makes my blood boil the way this government wastes money

Nothing has changed - they are still taking the pee out of the public!

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