Scumbag sues Garda

ArmaniJeanss · 07-10-2010 05:49PM

man.about.town wrote: »

lets not forget that if hes sueing the gardai, hes in for a payout that frankly will be spent on booze and drugs and cause more havock on our streets.

He is not sueing the gardai (the title of the thread is wrong).

What is happening is that the State (you and me) via the DPP are bringing a criminal case of assault against the guard and this guy maughan is both the victim of the alleged assault and the chief state witness.

Whatever about the rights and wrongs/ peoples opinion of the case, the thread title should really be corrected to reflect what is actually happening.

HarryPotter41 · 07-10-2010 05:52PM

man.about.town wrote: »

scumbags always feel like we society owes them something, he feels that it was wrong to get hit with the baton etc... but what about all the wrong he has done, stealing a car possibly at knife point, driving at speed etc... what audacity to say that he is now the poor innocent person in society.

for all you people that feel he should not have gotten a few slaps, ask yourself, if your mother, father, sister, brother, child, loved one had been driving along the quays that night and this car had of hit them leaving them seriously injured, how remorseful would you feel for the scumbag then that he got a few slaps. people should look at the big picture, for one, the courts do nothing to lock these up and i quote "a long list of convictions", surely at 19 years old if mr.maughan had a long list of convictions he should be locked up, the courts and our system don't lock up these degenerates in society, its time to bring in the 3 strike rule and then our streets would be safer.

instead, our system will give scumbags €196 a week to get off there faces. they steal, they rob, the assault and yet we support them, cut them off altogether. when they get a sentence, they're out on temporary release, when they're in prison they get tvs and playstations in their cells... im finding myself asking that what the hell is wrong with us that these scumbags get everything but provide nothing, they dont work or pay taxes yet there are treated better than good honest hard working people.

lets not forget that if hes sueing the gardai, hes in for a payout that frankly will be spent on booze and drugs and cause more havock on our streets.

dublin has turned into a dirty city because of so many addicts and beggers and scumbags, lets take a tougher approach and lock these thugs away. we should praise the gardai and not sack them for hitting a fella

im going to say something that most decent people are thinking and lets be honest with ourselves, they should of hit him harder or they didnt hit him enough!!

+1

Fox McCloud · 07-10-2010 05:54PM

In an ideal world this sort of thing would not be acceptable or gloriously welcomed by the masses. We have serious problem in Ireland with the light sentances for every violent and dangerous crime. It seems the free legal aid lawyers do a better job than the DDP ones.. And every criminal either has had a tough upbringing or comes from a "good family" so they somehow dont deserve substantial jail time.

I think we're going to see alot more vigilante attacks because people dont see justice being done in court. They seem a bunch of old law buddies getting paid extortionate amounts of money to sit around in a fancy room and talk about leasons learned and underpriveledged upbringings without any solid results of results of justice or safety. The punishments do not fit the crimes by a long shot, killing, raping, assault, agressive robbery etc. are not matched by anything half as life changing in court justice.

The larry murphy case is a good example, no one thought justice was served or that the court system had protected them from further possible attacks from this guy so they took to following him and abusing him or whatever.

Herb Powell · 07-10-2010 06:00PM

Roaster wrote: »

They should be given a medal!

Scum like that should have no rights whatsoever.

dangerous sentiments

Einhard · 07-10-2010 06:00PM

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Perhaps if they saw some toe rag like the poor put upon John Paul Maughan climbing out the window of your house with your prized possessions your tone might be slightly different. They have to put up with the crap of the likes of him in the course of what is after all a job they do to earn a crust like everyone else and every neo liberal in the country bleats about how they should be dealing with these thugs. No wonder the crims laugh at the Gardai.

So basically you think the gaurds should act like vigilantes and break the laws they've sworn to uphold?! Well, if I'm a neo-liberal, then that definitely puts yiu right smack in the middle of the neo-Fascist camp. Actually scratch that, the fascist camp will suffice. nothing new about those particular sentiments.

Einhard · 07-10-2010 06:01PM

CorkMan wrote: »

He has, many times.

So once a person is convicted once, he is automatically to be assumed guily of any other crime he is accused of?! Wow, just wow...

CorkMan · 07-10-2010 06:05PM

Einhard wrote: »

So once a person is convicted once, he is automatically to be assumed guily of any other crime he is accused of?! Wow, just wow...

I'm not stating that he is guilty of this crime, or that he will be found guilty. I'm just stating that the article said he had a long list of convictions, so he was convicted before.

dvpower · 07-10-2010 06:10PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

There is one way that the 'scumbag' could avoid this situation in the future.

Do you think he can guess what it is ?

By the DPP bringing a case against the guard and securing a conviction and the guard in question being sacked from the force, and a message going out to other guards that there is a high standard to adhere to and breaches are serious.
Is that what you had in mind?

HarryPotter41 · 07-10-2010 06:10PM

Einhard wrote: »

So basically you think the gaurds should act like vigilantes and break the laws they've sworn to uphold?! Well, if I'm a neo-liberal, then that definitely puts yiu right smack in the middle of the neo-Fascist camp. Actually scratch that, the fascist camp will suffice. nothing new about those particular sentiments.

You completely ignored the first part of my post as to how someone would feel if this type of person was found climbing out the window of their house or even worse, was ther cause of maiming or killing one of their loved ones, would they be quite so understanding of his civil rights?

And I most certainly am not a fascist, I am a very strong believer in democracy and human rights, but I also feel that after you have spent all day drinking and taking drugs, help mug someone for their car keys and then are a passeneger in that same stolen car travelling at dangerous speeds along the roads of a busy city that you have divested yourself of a certain amount of those human rights by stamping on the human right of every citizen to go about their daily business in safety and freedom. Certainly not fascist beliefs, its common sense. And by the way I didn't specifically call you a neo liberal, but you seem to be very sensitive on the point.

gizmo · 07-10-2010 06:10PM

Einhard wrote: »

Incidentally, the scumbag hasn't been convicted of anything either.

No but he has admitted to taking drugs, stealing the car and joyriding.

That doesn't of course condone the alleged beating but just because he remains non-convicted currently does not mean he didn't do it.

man.about.town · 07-10-2010 06:13PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

He is not sueing the gardai (the title of the thread is wrong).

What is happening is that the State (you and me) via the DPP are bringing a criminal case of assault against the guard and this guy maughan is both the victim of the alleged assault and the chief state witness.

Whatever about the rights and wrongs/ peoples opinion of the case, the thread title should really be corrected to reflect what is actually happening.

oh, alright, im no expert in the law but would he then not be entitled to make a civil claim against the state if the gardai are found guilty????

"armanijeanss" does that not make you sick that this scumbag will get more money off the state probably tens of thousands? he surely is already costing us (as in the taxpayer) hundreds of thousands a year in his free legal bills, his holidays in prison, his free methadone (if hes on it)etc... not to mention the untold hardship hes put on his many victims. if he has "a long list of convictions" he has an even longer list of crimes that he wasn't caught for. unless of course hes the worst criminal in the world that has been caught for every single crime. bare that in mind, hes not a poor innocent productive member of society

Rented Mule · 07-10-2010 06:16PM

Einhard wrote: »

So once a person is convicted once, he is automatically to be assumed guily of any other crime he is accused of?! Wow, just wow...

Has this person denied any of the things that led up to this alleged beating ?

dvpower · 07-10-2010 06:19PM

man.about.town wrote: »

oh, alright, im no expert in the law but would he then not be entitled to make a civil claim against the state if the gardai are found guilty????

He'd be entitled to take a civil case regardless of the outcome of this trial.

If the garda is guilty of this offence, he has just exposed the taxpayers of this state to probably quite a large compensation bill.

Zombrex · 07-10-2010 06:20PM

This scumbag obviously isn't aware of the rules, number one being "Obey the law"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

Everybody knows, if the police have to come and get you, they're brining an ass kicking with them.

HarryPotter41 · 07-10-2010 06:20PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

Has this person denied any of the things that led up to this alleged beating ?

Nope

"Mr Maughan said he had been drinking and taking drugs throughout the day and that he and a friend, Gary Henry, stole a set of car keys from a drunk man they met in the street."

"They got into the car and drove off before they "took a chase"."

"Mr Maughan described around 10 garda cars chasing them and said his friend was driving at full speed down the quays."

"They reached the docks and Mr Henry crashed the car after performing a handbrake turn to avoid going into the water."

So, possession of a banned substance, theft from person, being onboard a stolen vehicle. I woulda got bet within an inch of me life by my mother when I was 19 for all that crap, woulda rather chanced me arm with the Gardai beating me.

dvpower · 07-10-2010 06:23PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

Has this person denied any of the things that led up to this alleged beating ?

What things? The article doesn't give the Gardai account of what led up to the alleged beating. The witness did give his account of what led up to it (fwiw).

Einhard · 07-10-2010 06:24PM

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

You completely ignored the first part of my post as to how someone would feel if this type of person was found climbing out the window of their house or even worse, was ther cause of maiming or killing one of their loved ones, would they be quite so understanding of his civil rights?

I ignored it because it has nothing to do with the question at hand. To answer though, were such a thing to happen to me or my family, I'd expect the perpetrator to be prosecuted and incarcerated. The idea that the gardai would presume to take the law into their own hands on my behalf would abhor me, and I'd expect to see them prosecuted in turn.

And I most certainly am not a fascist, I am a very strong believer in democracy and human rights, but I also feel that after you have spent all day drinking and taking drugs, help mug someone for their car keys and then are a passeneger in that same stolen car travelling at dangerous speeds along the roads of a busy city that you have divested yourself of a certain amount of those human rights by stamping on the human right of every citizen to go about their daily business in safety and freedom. Certainly not fascist beliefs, its common sense. And by the way I didn't specifically call you a neo liberal, but you seem to be very sensitive on the point.

Ah, so anyone who disagrees with you is a "neo-liberal", but you bridle when similar terms are slung back at you?! Nice double standard...

You believe that the forces of law and order can choose to ignore the laws they are supposed to uphold, and turn into vigilantes when the mood takes them. That's not an attidtude I find compatible with civili liberties or democracy.

HarryPotter41 · 07-10-2010 06:26PM

Einhard wrote: »

I ignored it because it has nothing to do with the question at hand. To answer though, were such a thing to happen to me or my family, I'd expect the perpetrator to be prosecuted and incarcerated. The idea that the gardai would presume to take the law into their own hands on my behalf would abhor me, and I'd expect to see them prosecuted in turn.

It's fascist to believe that the forces of law and order can choose to ignore the laws they are supposed to uphold, and turn into vigilantes when the modd takes them.

Glaringly obvious then that you have never been the victim of serious crime. Also the Garda Siochana are allowed use reasonable restraint. Which in the case of somebody who has admitted drinking and taking drugs all day would be pretty much what Mr Maughan claims was done to him, because anybody wired on drink and drugs is not going to be non violent.

Einhard · 07-10-2010 06:27PM

CorkMan wrote: »

I'm not stating that he is guilty of this crime, or that he will be found guilty. I'm just stating that the article said he had a long list of convictions, so he was convicted before.

So?

ArmaniJeanss · 07-10-2010 06:27PM

man.about.town wrote: »

oh, alright, im no expert in the law but would he then not be entitled to make a civil claim against the state if the gardai are found guilty????

"armanijeanss" does that not make you sick that this scumbag will get more money off the state probably tens of thousands? he surely is already costing us (as in the taxpayer) hundreds of thousands a year in his free legal bills, his holidays in prison, his free methadone (if hes on it)etc... not to mention the untold hardship hes put on his many victims. if he has "a long list of convictions" he has an even longer list of crimes that he wasn't caught for. unless of course hes the worst criminal in the world that has been caught for every single crime. bare that in mind, hes not a poor innocent productive member of society

Yes, maughan almost certainly will be able to negotiate an amount of compensation if the guard is found guilty - in truth if a jury of peers finds the guard guilty then the guy maughan is fully entitled to compensation.

Hopefully though, if this happens, there will be enough people to counter claim money for previous criminal damage that maughan has caused, and he ends up with nowt. The insurance compnay of the guy who's car got robbed for starters!

Einhard · 07-10-2010 06:29PM

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Glaringly obvious then that you have never been the victim of serious crime.

So anyone who doesn't advocate that a body created to uphold the law should be allowed to disregard is somehow closeted from reality? I have a close friend who has been affected by a horrendous crime, and I know he doesn't advocate your brand of garda led vigilantism.

dvpower · 07-10-2010 06:32PM

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Glaringly obvious then that you have never been the victim of serious crime. Also the Garda Siochana are allowed use reasonable restraint. Which in the case of somebody who has admitted drinking and taking drugs all day would be pretty much what Mr Maughan claims was done to him, because anybody wired on drink and drugs is not going to be non violent.

That's complete nonsence.

HarryPotter41 · 07-10-2010 06:33PM

Einhard wrote: »

So anyone who doesn't advocate that a body created to uphold the law should be allowed to disregard is somehow closeted from reality? I have a close friend who has been affected by a horrendous crime, and I know he doesn't advocate your brand of garda led vigilantism.

Well first of all I was correct because it was obvious that somebody who looks so calmly at a situation like this has not experienced crime because the most rational person in the world will feel anger towards anyone of this ilk for a crime committed against them. SEcondly I would prefer if you did away with the fascist name calling as I have not called you any names during this discussion and would appreciate if you tried the same. Thirdly I will have to take your word for it as regards your friend, but I bet they have moments when they feel extreme anger and would like to see something done to the perpetrator, it doesn't make them a bad person and it probably happens in the depths of their mind at their worst moments, its a natural human reaction.

HarryPotter41 · 07-10-2010 06:35PM

dvpower wrote: »

That's complete nonsence.

Really? You have experience of someone drinking and taking drugs all day after mugging someone and being involved in a chase down the quays and about to be arrested by gardai? You have seen their reaction?

dvpower · 07-10-2010 06:40PM

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Really? You have experience of someone drinking and taking drugs all day after mugging someone and being involved in a chase down the quays and about to be arrested by gardai? You have seen their reaction?

Don't be changing what you asserted.

"anybody wired on drink and drugs is not going to be non violent"

Can you stand over this? Everyone wired on drink and drugs is going to be violent? Nonsense.

Were you on the Quays that night? Did you experience this incident?
Or maybe you've talked to the Gardai and they've told you that they have never experienced a person wired on drink and drugs to not use violence?

HarryPotter41 · 07-10-2010 06:45PM

dvpower wrote: »

Don't be changing what you asserted.

"anybody wired on drink and drugs is not going to be non violent"

Can you stand over this? Everyone wired on drink and drugs is going to be violent? Nonsense.

Were you on the Quays that night? Did you experience this incident?
Or maybe you've talked to the Gardai and they've told you that they have never experienced a person wired on drink and drugs to not use violence?

Talk to the Gardai on a regular basis, in fact every working day, I am a civilian employee. So were you on the Quays that night? Do you know he was non violent?

-Corkie- · 07-10-2010 06:48PM

The Gardai should still have the powers to kick the living crap out of fellas like this. Our jails wouldnt be half as full. Bring back the wet towel it put manners on a lot of scumbags..

Reganio 2 · 07-10-2010 06:52PM

His mate is in jail anyway as far as I know.

CorkMan · 07-10-2010 06:57PM

-Corkie- wrote: »

The Gardai should still have the powers to kick the living crap out of fellas like this. Our jails wouldnt be half as full. Bring back the wet towel it put manners on a lot of scumbags..

What is the wet towel?

omahaid · 07-10-2010 06:57PM

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

This, if it happened, is absolutely unacceptable. 10 Gardai beating on someone is never acceptable. If this hadn't of happened the little twat would be locked up and it would be over with. Instead, we are footing the bill because of some poorly trained idiot on a power-trip decided to beat a little junkie.

As for the people that said "the poor Gardai risked their lives chasing him", I thought it was their job??

The bit highlighted in bold is what is wrong with this country and the reason why junkies feel impervious to law and order. And Gardai risk their lives to protect us from guys like him. Disgusting that people try and make out this junkie is some poor misfortunate and the "evil" gardai picked on him.

Scumbag sues Garda

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