Decommissioning of e-voting machines

strassenwo!f · 06-10-2010 12:56PM #1

I see that the e-voting machines are to finally be put beyond use.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1006/breaking26.html

Sensible, in my view.

It will bring an end to the waste associated with this project.

And it will hopefully bring some sort of closure to the Martin Cullen Years.

fontanalis · 06-10-2010 01:07PM

They got a good deal, money well spent altogether.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1006/evoting.html

CJhaughey · 06-10-2010 01:11PM

The machines may well be disposed of but I am sure the contracts that were signed for storage will have been for a long term arrangement. The owners of the facilities will then have to be compensated for the broken contract etc etc...
They will have done very well out of that fiasco.
Thanks Minister Dempsey.

Cookie_Monster · 06-10-2010 01:26PM

Simply ask the Americans for a B-52, fill it with them and then drop them on whatever poor unfortunate country the Americans are bombing this week.

yahoo_moe · 06-10-2010 02:05PM

It's all very well saying that they're being decommissioned but there'll still be a few squirrelled away somewhere by dissident e-voters with their own agenda...

caseyann · 06-10-2010 02:10PM

AH sure give them a round of applause and congratulate them.They only threw away and cost the country.
(The total cost of the electronic voting project has now reached €54.6 million. Some €3 million has been spent on storing the machines over the past five years, while tens of thousands has been spent on hiring consultants to advise on how to dispose of the machines or more cost-effective ways of storing them.)
Absolute disgrace imo :mad:

dan_d · 06-10-2010 02:52PM

I think it's better to let this story sink into the grey fog of "things I'd rather not think about".....:mad:

caseyann · 06-10-2010 04:02PM

dan_d wrote: »

I think it's better to let this story sink into the grey fog of "things I'd rather not think about".....:mad:

Are you kidding me? While he ignores his and the other Glorified mafia in the Dáil,he makes it clear he wont ignore the wasted spending in HSE.But in same breath is wasting money all over the place on nothing and brushing their under the carpet?

yahoo_moe · 06-10-2010 05:02PM

caseyann wrote: »

in same breath is wasting money all over the place on nothing and brushing their under the carpet?

But the e-voting machines money is already spent. It was poorly handled throughout, no doubt about that, but the money is long gone.

It's unfortunate timing that it's cropped up again now... oh no, wait, it's Labout opportunistically drawing public attention to an easy (and largely irrelevant) target.

Sticky_Fingers · 06-10-2010 05:49PM

Farewell e-voting machines, we hardly knew ye.

Where these bloody things ever used or did we manage to struggle on with our "stupid old pencils"?

PeterIanStaker · 06-10-2010 06:10PM

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Were these bloody things ever used or did we manage to struggle on with our "stupid old pencils"?

No I dont think the fuckin things were ever used, although I'm open to correction (by someone who isn't a brown-nosing FF apparatchik, seems to be a lot of trolls lately).

Yet another example of taxpayers money going down the fucking toilet.

View · 06-10-2010 06:20PM

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Farewell e-voting machines, we hardly knew ye.

Where these bloody things ever used or did we manage to struggle on with our "stupid old pencils"?

Yes they were used in 3 constituencies in the 2002 general election. No one had a problem with their use at the time.

It was only afterwards that the Whine-line brigade started wanting the software to be re-written so they go all the way to the polling booth and then spoil their ballot. Sadly the government agreed to this idea and, I believe, actually did get the software re-written to support this option.

If anyone is wondering why we ended up in an economic mess, the e-voting machine saga really summarise it all. Policies initiated, chopped, then changed and finally abandoned leaving us back where we started after ploughing money into them.

And introducing e-voting machines is one of the easier tasks the Government could face. Balancing the books is a whole different ball-game.

Sticky_Fingers · 06-10-2010 06:57PM

View wrote: »

Yes they were used in 3 constituencies in the 2002 general election. No one had a problem with their use at the time.

It was only afterwards that the Whine-line brigade started wanting the software to be re-written so they go all the way to the polling booth and then spoil their ballot. Sadly the government agreed to this idea and, I believe, actually did get the software re-written to support this option.

If anyone is wondering why we ended up in an economic mess, the e-voting machine saga really summarise it all. Policies initiated, chopped, then changed and finally abandoned leaving us back where we started after ploughing money into them.

And introducing e-voting machines is one of the easier tasks the Government could face. Balancing the books is a whole different ball-game.

I see no problem with allowing people to spoil their ballot. If the option wasn't included in the initial design spec then the machines were not fit for purpose IMO and should never have been bought.

thebman · 06-10-2010 07:00PM

View wrote: »

Yes they were used in 3 constituencies in the 2002 general election. No one had a problem with their use at the time.

It was only afterwards that the Whine-line brigade started wanting the software to be re-written so they go all the way to the polling booth and then spoil their ballot. Sadly the government agreed to this idea and, I believe, actually did get the software re-written to support this option.

If anyone is wondering why we ended up in an economic mess, the e-voting machine saga really summarise it all. Policies initiated, chopped, then changed and finally abandoned leaving us back where we started after ploughing money into them.

And introducing e-voting machines is one of the easier tasks the Government could face. Balancing the books is a whole different ball-game.

They had serious, basic security problems ....

View · 06-10-2010 09:37PM

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

I see no problem with allowing people to spoil their ballot. If the option wasn't included in the initial design spec then the machines were not fit for purpose IMO and should never have been bought.

The reason elections are held is to elect people. Nothing else.

View · 06-10-2010 09:40PM

thebman wrote: »

They had serious, basic security problems ....

Given that the electoral register is very inaccurate and (ballot) papers in an old tin box is not exactly cutting edge security technology, why single out e-voting machines?

Sticky_Fingers · 06-10-2010 10:12PM

View wrote: »

The reason elections are held is to elect people. Nothing else.

No it is to allow the people to express their democratic right to vote, I can excersie that right by spoiling my ballot and telling those up for election on all sides that their views and policies are not supported by me.

thebman · 06-10-2010 10:23PM

View wrote: »

Given that the electoral register is very inaccurate and (ballot) papers in an old tin box is not exactly cutting edge security technology, why single out e-voting machines?

Not voting machines just these voting machines.

Why single out paper if there all inaccurate either ...

Shea O'Meara · 06-10-2010 10:27PM

yahoo_moe wrote: »

It's unfortunate timing that it's cropped up again now... oh no, wait, it's Labout opportunistically drawing public attention to an easy (and largely irrelevant) target.

I'm glad somebody draws attention to such things and as for being opportunist, did you expect FFail to mention it?
Are we to now avoid discussing FFail costly failures if the target is too easy? That's a new one:rolleyes:

Shea O'Meara · 06-10-2010 10:36PM

View wrote: »

Yes they were used in 3 constituencies in the 2002 general election. No one had a problem with their use at the time.

It was only afterwards that the Whine-line brigade started wanting the software to be re-written so they go all the way to the polling booth and then spoil their ballot. Sadly the government agreed to this idea and, I believe, actually did get the software re-written to support this option.

If anyone is wondering why we ended up in an economic mess, the e-voting machine saga really summarise it all. Policies initiated, chopped, then changed and finally abandoned leaving us back where we started after ploughing money into them.

And introducing e-voting machines is one of the easier tasks the Government could face. Balancing the books is a whole different ball-game.

Almost all of the above is incorrect.
From day one the government was advised that the e-voting system could be easily hacked into but chose to ignore that until people kept pushing them on it. Also a lot of them crashed...a lot. Even on the showcase in Dublin the show piece model didn't work properly. And finally people had legitimate concerns about the votes being recorded, i.e. no proof pressing for FG didn't mean Labour or FFail, lack of confidence with them, which was never addressed. And I'm sure the fact that the company who won the tender to introduce them had an FFail member on the board played no significance......
Then taking into account, after months of costly storage the software had become obsolete, they still left them for years at our cost.

A fierce political battle has broken out in Dublin because the government is pressing ahead with a new electronic voting system despite protests from the leading Irish opposition parties.
The government has promised to set up, in the next few days, a panel of "people of the highest repute" to check the system's accuracy and secrecy.

But Mr Ahern is adamant that an auditable paper trail cannot be built into the new system. "We are not going to go back to pushing pieces of paper around the place," he said, accusing a critic of wanting "to keep old ways, old things, the old nonsensical past".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/irish-rush-to-electronic-voting-causes-unease-571302.html

The NEDAP e-voting machines were originally purchased by the Irish government for use in the local and European elections on 11 June 2004. However, the decision to introduce e-voting at that time had to be abandoned following the publication of an interim report from the Commission on Electronic Voting (CEV), which raised doubts over the accuracy of the software used in the system.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/05/e-voting/

Zambia · 07-10-2010 07:47AM

thebman wrote: »

They had serious, basic security problems ....

I have a mad Idea why could they not fix them?

yahoo_moe · 07-10-2010 09:47AM

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I'm glad somebody draws attention to such things and as for being opportunist, did you expect FFail to mention it?
Are we to now avoid discussing FFail costly failures if the target is too easy? That's a new one:rolleyes:

Yes, because that's exactly what I said. :rolleyes: right back at you.

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

No it is to allow the people to express their democratic right to vote, I can excersie that right by spoiling my ballot and telling those up for election on all sides that their views and policies are not supported by me.

What's wrong with just staying away from the polls altogether if you don't support any party? That demonstrates apathy towards the candidates just fine, no?

paddyland · 07-10-2010 09:51AM

A list of WHO won the contracts for storing them, at WHAT cost to the taxpayer, over WHAT length of time, and with WHAT political connections, would make good reading coming up to the next election.

Nijmegen · 07-10-2010 10:00AM

E-Voting is an example of how the Irish state is run and a €50 million micro warning on the poor state of our public leadership and administration.

It was a show from the get-go, from not getting machines that work properly to changing requirements midway through and the eventual fashion of their storage and scrappage.

Meanwhile, find me a corporate executive in a major multinational, let's say Microsoft or HP or similar, tasked with rolling out electronic systems for employees clocking in and out, checking their hours, etc - in other words, an e-system that needs to be accurate and take data from lots of people - who would 1. Pull it off this poorly or 2. Still have a job after doing it.

And we're trusting this lot with the bank bailouts and economic turnaround?

Panda · 07-10-2010 10:18AM

These machines should be scrapped asap....

This is a bit of a side note:

So took a look at nedap.com, the developers and manufacturers of these unusable machines and was surprised to see that they're still getting business.

Then i looked for their financial reports and easily found them on their website.
Clicked on the earliest one which was 2006 (despite the fact that this company is 77 years old)

Heres the front page of the report.

So just to put this in words, they thought it would be a good idea to use photos of the likes of Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Chairman Mao but then they've also included Einstein, Ghandi, Mother Teresa, oh and of course they had to include Donald Duck.

Jesus wept....*

Jesus is actually in there too....

Nijmegen · 07-10-2010 10:23AM

I think it's similar to Time's man/person of the year - nowadays they shy away from using figures like Osama bin Laden, but the purpose is to talk about the person who has had the most impact on the world, not positive impact.

In that sense I get their message - the power of the individual. They never said good or bad.

Johnboy1951 · 07-10-2010 11:23AM

Zambia232 wrote: »

I have a mad Idea why could they not fix them?

Maybe because the whole system was so flawed it was not possible?

donaghs · 07-10-2010 11:40AM

View wrote: »

The reason elections are held is to elect people. Nothing else.

Again, there were security issues. If they couldn't get that part right, they should never have gone beyond the testing phase.

View wrote: »

Given that the electoral register is very inaccurate and (ballot) papers in an old tin box is not exactly cutting edge security technology, why single out e-voting machines?

The current system has a proven track record, we know what to expect. Also, there is a clear physical paper record.

If a virtual system was to replace it, all those security concerns need to be ironed out.

jmcc · 07-10-2010 12:26PM

View wrote: »

Yes they were used in 3 constituencies in the 2002 general election. No one had a problem with their use at the time.

It was only afterwards that the Whine-line brigade started wanting the software to be re-written so they go all the way to the polling booth and then spoil their ballot. Sadly the government agreed to this idea and, I believe, actually did get the software re-written to support this option.

They were badly designed and based on out of date software.

The security model was completely and stupidly non-existent.

They would have enabled the subversion of the state because the machines were insecure.

Regards...jmcc

caseyann · 07-10-2010 12:37PM

yahoo_moe wrote: »

But the e-voting machines money is already spent. It was poorly handled throughout, no doubt about that, but the money is long gone.

It's unfortunate timing that it's cropped up again now... oh no, wait, it's Labout opportunistically drawing public attention to an easy (and largely irrelevant) target.

While cowen tries to take the lime light off his and Fianna fails mess ups and draw them on HSE spending.
When the whole lot of them should be tarred and feathered by the public.

How much more is Irish public going to say ah sure what can you do?

ronkmonster · 07-10-2010 12:40PM

donaghs wrote: »

Again, there were security issues. If they couldn't get that part right, they should never have gone beyond the testing phase.

The current system has a proven track record, we know what to expect. Also, there is a clear physical paper record.

If a virtual system was to replace it, all those security concerns need to be ironed out.

What do people mean by paper record?
The ballot slip has nothing on it to identify I was the one who voted.

A computer could track who did what vote but then it's not a private vote.

When I finish voting now, I don't get a receipt. Why should a computer system give one?
Paper ballot is equal to entry in a database for e-voting. The safe guards to prevent anyone changing the database are a different issue.

Decommissioning of e-voting machines

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