"Short Ireland!" - Lenihan ridiculed by international investors on Citigroup call

loldog · 02-10-2010 10:55AM #1

Another trader is said to have made "chimp sounds".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8038000/Irelands-finance-minister-Brian-Lenihan-ridiculed-by-City-investors.html

"The call was a farce and as far as I'm concerned this is just another part of the mess Ireland has got itself into," said one participant in the call.

The government has been bending over backwards to appease the international markets, even making it a cornerstone of reversing our decision on the Lisbon Treaty.

Ireland's hard won sovereignty has become a commodity to be gambled with by the spivs in their banking casinos.

How could it have been any worse if we had let Anglo and AIB fail?

pablo_escobar · 02-10-2010 11:17AM

Ireland is owned by investors on wallstreet.
It has no sovereignty.

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 11:25AM

loldog wrote: »

Another trader is said to have made "chimp sounds".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8038000/Irelands-finance-minister-Brian-Lenihan-ridiculed-by-City-investors.html

The government has been bending over backwards to appease the international markets, even making it a cornerstone of reversing our decision on the Lisbon Treaty.

Ireland's hard won sovereignty has become a commodity to be gambled with by the spivs in their banking casinos.

ah the good old torygraph.. never one to pass up the opportunity to have a go at Paddy. the Birts are in a similar situation themselves and certain elements in their media will paint us to be in a worse situation to make them feel better about themselves (they also have an anti-EU agenda)

loldog wrote: »

How could it have been any worse if we had let Anglo and AIB fail?

well if you are a depositor in one of those institutions then I think you might know the answer to that question.

magick · 02-10-2010 11:27AM

pablo_escobar wrote: »

Ireland is owned by investors on wallstreet.
It has no sovereignty.

Just replace "wallstreet" with "money" and you can put every country on the planet into that category.

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 11:33AM

Shams wrote: »

Just replace "wallstreet" with "money" and you can put every country on the planet into that category.

Ireland is owned by

"investors on money"

??

pablo_escobar · 02-10-2010 11:40AM

Shams wrote: »

Just replace "wallstreet" with "money" and you can put every country on the planet into that category.

well, i hope you don't assume i'm anti-american with my comment.
'wallstreet' isn't synonymous with 'patriotism'

i think you'll find wallstreet own most of the planet at this stage...

mike65 · 02-10-2010 11:44AM

gollem_1975 wrote: »

ah the good old torygraph.. never one to pass up the opportunity to have a go at Paddy. the Birts are in a similar situation themselves and certain elements in their media will paint us to be in a worse situation to make them feel better about themselves (they also have an anti-EU agenda)

All they did was report whats happening, or would you prefer that they didn't? Be interesting to see if the Irish media will report what happened.

The "Brits" are not in as bad a situtation either while they have to deal with the current account deficit (which is now shrinking), the UK banks are in profit again. The UK government ownership of RBS will turn a handsome profit in a few years time. No chance of that here.

bijapos · 02-10-2010 11:58AM

Those people on Wall St and their equivalents in other markets around the world are the scum of the earth imo.

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 12:00PM

mike65 wrote: »

All they did was report whats happening, or would you prefer that they didn't? Be interesting to see if the Irish media will report what happened.

The "Brits" are not in as bad a situtation either while they have to deal with the current account deficit (which is now shrinking), the UK banks are in profit again. The UK government ownership of RBS will turn a handsome profit in a few years time. No chance of that here.

hands up I don't know much about the situation there in the UK ( i don't know much about here either

) but the situation in the UK is still far from ideal ( and parts of the UK never had a boom in the first place.. its grim up north[of england] )

In my opinion the hands of the british banks are far from clean on the crisis here in Ireland ( and don't get me started on the 800 years

) ...if my memory serves me they were the first to introduce the 100% mortgages

20Cent · 02-10-2010 12:04PM

Excellent article about how they "earn" their money.
Biggest recipients of taxpayer money every but its the single mother, the sick and the poor who have to pay these guys.

Wall Sts Bailout Hustle.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/12697/64868

bijapos · 02-10-2010 12:27PM

20Cent wrote: »

Wall Sts Bailout Hustle.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/12697/64868

Read that before, excellent article.

kaymin · 02-10-2010 12:33PM

gollem_1975 wrote: »

well if you are a depositor in one of those institutions then I think you might know the answer to that question.

Yes, better off - you seem to forget the €100k government guarantee. The politicians ignore it aswell - part of the scaremongering tactics used to try to portray that their actions are for the good of Joe Citizen.

southsiderosie · 02-10-2010 12:40PM

gollem_1975 wrote: »

ah the good old torygraph.. never one to pass up the opportunity to have a go at Paddy. the Birts are in a similar situation themselves and certain elements in their media will paint us to be in a worse situation to make them feel better about themselves (they also have an anti-EU agenda).

Oh, please. The dogs on the street know Ireland's finances are ****ed.

If the Telegraph is too Tory for you, try the Guardian: they all but called Brian Lenihan a liar yesterday.

And Ireland IS is a worse position than Britain, given the size of the economy and the fact that they don't control their own currency.

mike65 · 02-10-2010 12:43PM

gollem_1975 wrote: »

In my opinion the hands of the british banks are far from clean on the crisis here in Ireland ( and don't get me started on the 800 years ) ...if my memory serves me they were the first to introduce the 100% mortgages

Well the 800 years reference gives the game away methinks. First Active was the first bank to introduce the 100% mortgage here (they were Irish part of the Royal bank of Scotland group)

DebDynamite · 02-10-2010 12:45PM

The Dept of Finance have denied the jeering:

A SPOKESMAN FOR Finance Minister Brian Lenihan has described as “pathetic and inaccurate” a story by the Daily Telegraph which claims that Finance Minister Brian Lenihan was jeered, heckled and subjected to chimp sounds during a conference call with Citigroup investors.

The spokesperson pointed out that the newspaper which published the story was not on the call, and that other publications – which had been invited to participate – did not report on any jeering or heckling.

The spokesman admitted that there were some technical problems with the call, but insisted the Minister was not heckled. “You wouldn’t have been able to hear anyone because there was so much feedback,” the spokesman said.

Further on in the article a guy who was in on the call said:

"Unlike the rest of the posters here or the journalist I was on this call.
What isn’t explained properly was the hundreds of callers from whatever location they were based were live. So any noise whether it was moving a chair, coughing, arranging a trade, etc could be heard. So the ‘chimp noise’ sounded very much like a ring tone..there were dozens of rings tones, coughs chatter and general noise from dozens of trading floors, dealing rooms and conference rooms. It was an utter mess of so to say Lenihan was ‘heckled’ was overstating it. It wasn’t that organised. It basically became white noise with occasional noises, words and sentences cutting across. Any ‘ridicule’ was largely directed at Citigroup’s shambolic organisation."

http://home.thejournal.ie/dept-of-finance-denies-lenihan-jeered-in-conference-call-2010-10/?h

AlekSmart · 02-10-2010 12:59PM

The spokesman admitted that there were some technical problems with the call, but insisted the Minister was not heckled. “You wouldn’t have been able to hear anyone because there was so much feedback,” the spokesman said.

Oh dear,feedback...how very Jimi Hendrix,ish.....perhaps not a great way to portray a Knowledge Based Ireland awash with hyper-fast fibre-optic Broadband cabled Houses of Parliament...

Or.... perhaps Brian was on a mobile at a location i`m aware of 50K from An Lár where oner has to sit on a particular spot on a forestry wall to accquire a signal...:rolleyes: (and yes,there`s often a queue ! )

However,it`ll all be fine once we get the oul PostCodes up and runnin.....That`ll show them smart alek`s on Wall Street.

PeterIanStaker · 02-10-2010 01:03PM

I hate agreeing with anything in the Torygraph, but he deserves all the ridicule he gets, if indeed he was heckled.

southsiderosie · 02-10-2010 01:04PM

I loathe the bankers, but if this story is true, fair play to them. At least someone is willing to tell the government that their figures are absurd.

dvpower · 02-10-2010 01:09PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

I loathe the bankers, but if this story is true, fair play to them. At least someone is willing to tell the government that their figures are absurd.

Did they tell him that his figures are absurd?

Sticky_Fingers · 02-10-2010 01:11PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

I loathe the bankers, but if this story is true, fair play to them. At least someone is willing to tell the government that their figures are absurd.

They have right to disagree but their complete lack of respect for our MoF is a smack in the face to the country. They were taking part in the conference call in a professional capacity and should have conduced themselves in a more civilised manner. If I was their boss I would have sacked them for this carry on, it is no way to conduct business.

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 01:15PM

kaymin wrote: »

Yes, better off - you seem to forget the €100k government guarantee. The politicians ignore it aswell - part of the scaremongering tactics used to try to portray that their actions are for the good of Joe Citizen.

:eek: yes and if the banks fail the government will have to stump up the money for this guarantee ! there isn't a reserve fund just waiting on the sidelines to pay out every depositor if a bank fails.

from where they are going to get the money to pay these depositors is anyones guess.. they won't be able to go to the bond holders because they'll have been burnt already.

I'm feckin livid with what the bankers have done.

do you REALLY think it would be a good idea to let the banks fail ?

PeterIanStaker · 02-10-2010 01:18PM

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

They have right to disagree but their complete lack of respect for our MoF is a smack in the face to the country. .

Let them smack away, he deserves it and more.

Sticky_Fingers · 02-10-2010 01:23PM

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

So is voting for FF, but people still do it.

As is their democratic right under our present system. You can disagree with them and call them every name under the sun but you will come off looking childish and arrogant. I don't like this government but if I was ever to meet them in a professional capacity I would keep my opinions to myself. Even if I met them on the street as a private citizen I see no point in hurling personal abuse at them.

PeterIanStaker · 02-10-2010 01:30PM

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

As is their democratic right under our present system. You can disagree with them and call them every name under the sun but you will come off looking childish and arrogant. I don't like this government but if I was ever to meet them in a professional capacity I would keep my opinions to myself. Even if I met them on the street as a private citizen I see no point in hurling personal abuse at them.

If I met them on the street I'd at least be honest and tell them that they well and truly have made a hames of things.

The ones who are childish and arrogant are the people in power who have their heads in the sand and keep spouting rhetoric about turning a corner and magically generating 300,000 imaginary jobs.

Having said that, I believe the situation as it stands is unfixable, and I have no ideas on how to rectify it, but at least I'll admit that straight up, instead of wasting anyone's time.

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 01:32PM

mike65 wrote: »

Well the 800 years reference gives the game away methinks. First Active was the first bank to introduce the 100% mortgage here (they were Irish part of the Royal bank of Scotland group)

tbh the 800 years reference was a joke on my part my apologies if it was in bad taste or just plain not funny.

but my point about the UK banks hand in the crisis still stands

I know it was just business but without a doubt the reckless lending ramped up another couple of notches as a result of increased competition in the Irish market with the entry of foreign banks.

thankfully we don't have to bail RBS, BOS, Northern Rock, Halifax et al out too.

I also stand by my view that certain elements of the english media do publish material about other countries to make their readership feel better about things that are happening in their own country. As an english person have you ever seen this trend or am I way off the mark ?

In the end of the day. Irish and UK press have the same objective.. sell newspapers.

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 01:37PM

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

They have right to disagree but their complete lack of respect for our MoF is a smack in the face to the country. They were taking part in the conference call in a professional capacity and should have conduced themselves in a more civilised manner. If I was their boss I would have sacked them for this carry on, it is no way to conduct business.

1) lets not blow this out of proportion.. we are hearing a story second hand..i.e. we don't really know what happened.

2) second of all the investors are not representing a country.. if it was Angela Merkel , Berlusconi, Sarkosy etc. then that would be a different story.

3) I wonder what response he would have got on Chatroulette?

Yag reuoY · 02-10-2010 01:43PM

gollem_1975 wrote: »

tbh the 800 years reference was a joke on my part my apologies if it was in bad taste or just plain not funny.

but my point about the UK banks hand in the crisis still stands

I know it was just business but without a doubt the reckless lending ramped up another couple of notches as a result of increased competition in the Irish market with the entry of foreign banks.

thankfully we don't have to bail RBS, BOS, Northern Rock, Halifax et al out too.

I also stand by my view that certain elements of the english media do publish material about other countries to make their readership feel better about things that are happening in their own country. As an english person have you ever seen this trend or am I way off the mark ?

In the end of the day. Irish and UK press have the same objective.. sell newspapers.

Ireland is actually international news at the moment due to Anglo et al, it has nothing to do with a British media agenda.

How this government hasn't fallen at this stage I really don't know. FF rely on Greens and Independents so it's beyond incredible that they haven't been torn down. :eek:

I simply can't wait to evacuate this toxic state in November!

the_dark_side · 02-10-2010 01:44PM

you might say that now, but your tune could change if they started to go after people's savings to try and make up the deficit... I heard someone deeply involved in FF grumble about this well over a year ago.

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 01:48PM

the_dark_side wrote: »

you might say that now, but your tune could change if they started to go after people's savings to try and make up the deficit... I heard someone deeply involved in FF grumble about this well over a year ago.

question: who is "you" and what is "that" ?

Sticky_Fingers · 02-10-2010 01:51PM

gollem_1975 wrote: »

1) lets not blow this out of proportion.. we are hearing a story second hand..i.e. we don't really know what happened.

True, there has been a statement from the government that the report in the Telegraph is inaccurate. If it is true then it is bad form on their part.

gollem_1975 wrote: »

2) second of all the investors are not representing a country.. if it was Angela Merkel , Berlusconi, Sarkosy etc. then that would be a different story.

The investors are insulting Ireland if it is true. The MoF is a representative of our government and state and even if you disagree with him or his stance if you are dealing with him in a professional capacity then some standards should be maintained.

gollem_1975 wrote: »

3) I wonder what response he would have got on Chatroulette?

This was'nt Chatroulette, this was a busness meeting. How would you feel if you had a meeting with your bank manager and he openly mocked you while you were trying to renegotiate a loan?

gollem_1975 · 02-10-2010 01:55PM

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Ireland is actually international news at the moment due to Anglo et al, it has nothing to do with a British media agenda.

yes but how it is being reported in the british media DOES have something to do with their agenda , n'est pas ?

"Short Ireland!" - Lenihan ridiculed by international investors on Citigroup call

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