Stud dogs

Lee1982 · 30-09-2010 4:24pm #1

i have been looking at stud dogs online but most of them are under 2 :mad: are these just people trying to make a quick buck and dont really care about their animals welfare??would i need to contact the IKC to find a well bred dog?

lorebringer · 01-10-2010 7:18am

You don't need to contact the IKC but it would be a good idea. If you are looking for a good stud dog, with all relevant health tests, you will probably have to make quite a few phone calls (and some house calls to check him out). If you ask for the breed related secretary's number you should be able to get into contact with several good breeders who may have stud dogs available. Unfortunately, as you have found out, so many breeders are just in it for a quick buck and aren't particularly concerned with welfare but the search will be worth it when you find the right stud.

lrushe · 01-10-2010 8:18am

Fair play to you for doing your research before breeding, it doesn't happen nearly often enough imo. I think the best place to track down a good stud would be at a breed show or a show in general. If you google upcoming dog shows you will get a list of dates. At shows you'll get great info from owner / breeders on what might compliment your bitch, relevant health tests, whelping a litter and other general breeding information.

Knine · 01-10-2010 11:02am

Some Tips to help you find a decent stud dog.

You dont mention the breed of your dog but firstly take a good look at the breed standard of your dogs breed. Interpret it as best you can. Then have an honest look at your bitch to access her good and bad points. Read up on the health issues that affect the breed. If need be have the relevent tests carried out e.g hip scored if Hip dysplasia is a problem for the breed.

Then begin the search for the stud dog long before she is due in heat. Go to the next IKC show to look at prospective studs. Even if you have to travel, it is so worth it to get the best results. Look for a male that excels in the area your bitch is weak, for example if your bitch hasnt the best of heads, look for a male with excellent head. Dont just pick whatever dog is the winning dog of the month. Look for an excellent temperment also. Ideally you want a dog that is going to complement your bitch. At the IKC shows you will often see progeny of the stud dogs also being exhibited. This will give you an idea of what type he produces. Also remember it will cost you a lot more money to use a top quality dog. It take a great deal of time and effort on the stud dog owner to produce and maintain decent stud dogs.

Another tip is that if your breed of dog is one which has a lot of health issues, short livespan etc, It is better to choose an older male dog because then you can be more sure of his health status.

For the actual breeding act, especially if your bitch is maiden bitch, it makes life easier if you use a proven stud dog although this is not essential.

Go out and buy yourself 'The book of the bitch' you can get it on Amazon and it has very useful info on breeding dogs.

Lee1982 · 01-10-2010 12:13pm

she is a long coat Chihuahua..i wont need one just yet as i dont have a definate plan on breeding im just thinking about it,i really want another Chi and i have great homes lined up if she had a couple,but i have zero experience..she is a house pet and i would naturally want what's best for her so after the litter she will be spayed,she has an excellent temperament really good features,small apple head and has never been sick,she is 18 months old so i was thinking of doing it this time next year its either that or buy another one???she is IKC registered

ABajaninCork · 01-10-2010 12:40pm

Sorry to hijack the thread, but wanted to ask a question.

I've got a male Shih Tzu. He's almost 18 months old, and we would like him to sire a pup for us before he gets the snip. We're thinking of doing this after Christmas.

He's fully vaccinated, great temprement, regularly wormed and vet checked, but unfortunately he has no papers. (i.e. Non IKC)

How would we go about finding a suitable bitch for him?

Knine · 01-10-2010 12:49pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread, but wanted to ask a question.

I've got a male Shih Tzu. He's almost 18 months old, and we would like him to sire a pup for us before he gets the snip. We're thinking of doing this after Christmas.

He's fully vaccinated, great temprement, regularly wormed and vet checked, but unfortunately he has no papers. (i.e. Non IKC)

How would we go about finding a suitable bitch for him?

You would find it very hard to get any reputable breeder wanting to use him if he is not IKC Reg. Most reputable breeders would want to use a dog that has been graded in the show ring and is IKC reg. Also if he is a family pet I would consider just keeping him as that. Once they have been used they are much more aware of what they got their equipment for and will actively seek out bitches. The earlier you neuter a male dog the more effective it is.
You will get people interested in using him but I would be very wary of their motives i.e. puppy farmers and you want to avoid them like the plague.

To the OP do as much research as you can in the next few months and make sure you pick a stud dog that is not too big and be aware of the following health issues in the breed - Patellar Luxation (slipping kneecap) eye problems progressive retinal atrophy and Hydrocephalus.

lrushe · 01-10-2010 1:21pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread, but wanted to ask a question.

I've got a male Shih Tzu. He's almost 18 months old, and we would like him to sire a pup for us before he gets the snip. We're thinking of doing this after Christmas.

He's fully vaccinated, great temprement, regularly wormed and vet checked, but unfortunately he has no papers. (i.e. Non IKC)

How would we go about finding a suitable bitch for him?

The only reason to breed a dogs is to improve the breed otherwise there are plenty of dogs / puppies in rescues crying out for homes. However if you are adamant that you want your dog to be a stud at the very least have health tests done on him to make sure he is free from genetic illnesses. Also please note a stud never goes looking for a bitch, if your dog is good enough people will line up to use him. Please read and understand the below, as a stud dog owner these are your responsiblities:

1. Be prepared to set aside at least a week of time for every breeding. Most of the time, it's a lengthy process.

2. Have a good reproductive specialist that can get to you in on a moment's notice in the case where the bitch needs ongoing timing testing. If you're committed to getting the bitch bred, then it's your responsibility to do so.

3. Be ready to turn down bitches, both for their own lack of merit, or because you're not convinced that the breeders can raise or place the puppies the way you're hoping. Don't take chances. Don't take bitches who's pedigrees you don't thoroughly understand. Don't take bitches whose owners you don't know personally (or at least that don't come very highly recommended by someone you do trust). You are responsible for these puppies for their entire lifetimes. Choose only outstanding breeders who will also take that responsibility seriously.

4. Be honest about what your dog throws and be prepared to also turn down fabulous bitches because you know that your dog will not offer the breeder what they are looking for. This is difficult. It's very tempting to take bitches that you think will improve on your dog in areas that he needs. Especially when they're highly accomplished! But you job is to help the breeder achieve their own goals. If you don't reasonably think that your dog will help them to improve also, you need to be honest and tell them that.

5. Don't do similar breedings until you know what the first one has produced. Doing such breedings doesn't help anyone. Suggest that one of them come back down the road, after they've seen what the first has produced.

6. Once pups are on the ground, travel to see them. Even if this means turning down another breeding, whatever. You can't make good decisions for additional pairings unless you know how the first ones worked out. Keep in touch with every owner so you know exactly what temperament traits, health issues etc. your dog is throwing.

7. Deal with health and temperament related issues properly. You will get them, every stud dog throws some pups with one issue or another. You can never go wrong by doing the right thing.

8. On that note, once there are enough pups to assess what you have, be honest about them. Keep every health clearance, temperament trait, eye color, coat, etc etc. well documented, as it's human nature to forget what we don't want to remember or to overlook things in a dog we really like. Be sure to tell breeders who inquire with their bitches what you have seen and what you hope to build on or avoid going forward. Every breeding will have it's risks, make sure the ones that you are taking aren't going to break someone's heart.

9. Encourage the new owners to help their dog reach its' fullest potential, whether a competitor or companion. And always be sure to set a good enough example that, if theirs turns out to be the next popular stud dog, they'll know exactly how they want to manage him.

lorebringer · 01-10-2010 1:41pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread, but wanted to ask a question.

I've got a male Shih Tzu. He's almost 18 months old, and we would like him to sire a pup for us before he gets the snip. We're thinking of doing this after Christmas.

He's fully vaccinated, great temprement, regularly wormed and vet checked, but unfortunately he has no papers. (i.e. Non IKC)

How would we go about finding a suitable bitch for him?

I would recommend not breeding your dog at this age because 18 months old is too young to breed your dog (and after Christmas, at about 21/22 months, he's still quite young). Any health issues may not be apparent yet. Have you had your chap health tested? If not, you will need to look into this. He may be perfectly healthy at the present but unless you have him scored by a specialist (I know Shih Tzus suffer with hip problems, so hip scoring is essential, and breathing problems - due to pallet malformation - so this will need to be seen by a specialist also, and any other problems that are common in the breed will need to be screened for). If you are serious about breeding ethically you will need to have some scoring done to ensure your little guy does not pass on undesirable genes.

WRT his IKC registration - as Knine already said, most reputable breeders will not go near a stud that does not have papers. There is no other way to know for definite what lines he comes from (and to know the pros and cons of the lines, and to ensure there is no inbreeding). If you can register him, you should. His breeder should have both of his parents registered, therefore will register your guy. If not, you probably won't get a decent breeder to accept your dog as a stud.

Have you shown your dog? Do you know if he is a good example of his breed? I really don't mean to be rude (and certainly don't want to tell you your business) but if you are just breeding for the sake of it before he gets neutered, is it really worth it? He may be a beautiful and wonderful pet but because you are planning on getting him neutered, why not just get the snip and enjoy him as a pet? If you want to get a second dog/pup, couldn't you go to a good breeder who has done all the the health testing.

ABajaninCork · 01-10-2010 1:51pm

Thanks for all your kind responses, and apologies to the OP for hijacking their post!:)

I just wanted to clarify. The reason we would like a pup from our dog is that he was a gift from my late mother-in-law. My husband wanted a pup as a reminder so's to speak.

As an aside. We are still in contact with the breeder we got him from. I think his parents are registered, but I thought only the breeder could register the pups via IKC?

Perhaps someone could clarify? Many thanks!

lrushe · 01-10-2010 1:51pm

Lee1982 wrote: »

she is a long coat Chihuahua..i wont need one just yet as i dont have a definate plan on breeding im just thinking about it,i really want another Chi and i have great homes lined up if she had a couple,but i have zero experience..she is a house pet and i would naturally want what's best for her so after the litter she will be spayed,she has an excellent temperament really good features,small apple head and has never been sick,she is 18 months old so i was thinking of doing it this time next year its either that or buy another one???she is IKC registered

One must look at WHY they are breeding their dogs, and if their dogs REALLY needs to be bred. Does this dog have something to offer the breed? Structure? Conformation? Temperament? Health? Or is this just a person's sentiment, wanting a "puppy out of my fabulous dog Fluffy?" Remember, that puppies out of Fluffy can sometimes be NOTHING like Fluffy, and breeding her will not promise you "another one."

Before being bred a dog should have:

Proven conformation type and structure. This is done via showing.

Proven temperament.

Proven health.

All of this will take you time (years) and money. When this is complete, a suitable mate needs to be picked, and again, all the above criteria considered and met. Suitable homes need to be screened for, a contract in place, and good communication between breeder and buyer.

To forgo health and temperament is to invite disaster.

What will you tell the buyers when they call you, heartbroken and in tears, that the puppy you sold them just dropped dead at 15 mos old.

What will you tell the buyers when they ask what to do........their pup needs €1500 worth of surgery to fix his knee. The other side will probably have to be done in less than a year. €3000. Either that, or tell their 8 and 10 year old kids that they must now take their pup to the vet so he can be put to sleep because he's in too much pain.

What about a puppy who goes blind at age 5?

All of the above are conditions Chi’s can suffer from.

Breeding is NOT about a cute litter of puppies in a box. It's about devotion, heartbreak, spending LOTS of money, losing lots of sleep, having patience with the ignorant, being accountable to 4 or 5 new lives, and their owners, for the duration of their life.

THIS is why people are so passionate about their breeds, and breeding. Hopefully you can understand why some people, after years and years and years of going through the same parade of novice owners who "just want to have a nice litter," can at times, humanly, run out of patience.

I would ask that you strongly reconsider your desire to have a litter until you have many more years of experience in the breed, and time has been your invaluable instructor. Become part of the solution, learn, share what you've learned, continue to educate people about the breed. In 5 years, think about it again, and then see where your thoughts lie.

lrushe · 01-10-2010 1:52pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

As an aside. We are still in contact with the breeder we got him from. I think his parents are registered, but I thought only the breeder could register the pups via IKC?

Perhaps someone could clarify? Many thanks!

Yes only the breeder can register your pup and he can only be register if both his parents are

andreac · 01-10-2010 2:31pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread, but wanted to ask a question.

I've got a male Shih Tzu. He's almost 18 months old, and we would like him to sire a pup for us before he gets the snip. We're thinking of doing this after Christmas.

He's fully vaccinated, great temprement, regularly wormed and vet checked, but unfortunately he has no papers. (i.e. Non IKC)

How would we go about finding a suitable bitch for him?

It doesnt work like that. Uusually if you have a male its the bitch owner that comes to you to use your dog, but as your dog is not IKC reg i wouldnt say you will have people coming to use him.
Stud dogs usually have to prove themselves first and have a special reason to use them as breeds like Shih Tzus are tne a penny so unless hes a champion or an excellent standard of the breed i cant see anyone coming to use him.
Being fully vaccinated, wormed reg and vet checked really wouldnt have any input on whether he should be used for stud.

Only dogs of excellent type resulting from being shown under breed specialists, dogs that have been health tested for their breed health problems should be bred from.
To be honest i wouldnt be looking to breed from him, i would just get him neutered. There no need for him to sire a litter, even more so if hes not registered, shown or health tested.

andyob99 · 22-11-2011 7:55pm

<snip>

Read the forum charter before posting here

Thanks.

Stud dogs

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