Seanie Fitz "on €188 a month"

Cyrus · 24-09-2010 11:41AM

Laminations wrote: »

@ Cyrus

Fitzpatrick owes millions. This is personal debt that is now on the taxpayer. Do you think it is just or fair that he lives in a mansion and is by no means poor while he owes all this money and while his creditors turn to the taxpayer?

a manson? hardly,

its not fair but as it stands at the moment he is working within the confines of the law, so what are you going to do?

if it is found in the bankruptcy precedings that he has circumvented the proper processes im sure they will deal with that,

the man has gone from being a multi millionaire, and one of the most important figures in the country to someone who has very little and whose reputation is destroyed, he has lost a lot,

people dont seem to realise this

bullpost · 24-09-2010 11:48AM

You're right of course.

I'm not sure how himself and his missus will get on by on combined assets of somewhere under 10 million euros.

Isn't this begrudgery we Irish have just something shocking

Cyrus wrote: »

a manson? hardly,

its not fair but as it stands at the moment he is working within the confines of the law, so what are you going to do?

if it is found in the bankruptcy precedings that he has circumvented the proper processes im sure they will deal with that,

the man has gone from being a multi millionaire, and one of the most important figures in the country to someone who has very little and whose reputation is destroyed, he has lost a lot,

people dont seem to realise this

jmayo · 24-09-2010 11:53AM

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m guessing these “other jurisdictions” would require that an investigation be carried out in order to establish whether or not wrongdoing has taken place? If not, then I don’t think we should be following their example.

Yes they would require investigation, but after two years they would have gotten somewhere unlike here.

djpbarry wrote: »

How about we let the Bureau of Fraud Investigation do their job on that front and we’ll see what comes of it.
Questions about Madoff’s business practices were raised back in the late 90’s, yet he was only sentenced to prison last year (and that was only after he confessed to wrongdoing).

Ok the madoff case be not be best example, so then lets look at Milikan or the guys an Enron.
Or close to home lets look at the Ernest Saunders jailing for running a share support scheme with Guinness.

Oh a share support scheme, doesn't that sound familiar ?

Cyrus wrote: »

you have both missed my point,

No you have missed the point.
Why should we pick up the pieces for some very dodgy business people who so far have suantered off into the sunset.
They can walk away from causing billions worth of damage to the country, but yet a guy can go to jail for not paying TV license.
Oh yes it is the law, well lets make some new laws if the old laws don't cover it.
We can have a constitutional referendum to see what the people want.

Look at Hinault's list for the glaring dodgy activities that even according to our lax corporate governance appear illegal.

Now in most countries his share support scheme would see him serving jail time for misleading the markets and any money or assets he had put aside would be used to pay off former Anglo shareholders who had taken a class action for misleading company accounts at year end either through bogus depoisit base or hidden director loans.
Oh wait we don't allow class actions in this country.
I wonder why. :rolleyes:

Cyrus wrote: »

also there are far too many people using someone like him as a scapegoat for their own problems, because we all love someone to blame and its easier to sit around a pub drinking blaming someone else for losing your job that doing something about it yourself

You have some effing neck claiming we are blaming him erroneously for our own problems.
We normal folk pay our own bills best we can, but he doesn't.
He expects us to pay for them. :mad:

We are blaming him for playing a very large part in the collapse of our banking infrastructure.

Lets have a poll of posters here who can claim they helped directly cause billions of Euro in losses and are now asking others to carry the can for it ?

Oh don't worry I am not just tragetting him alone as a traitor to this country.
We have david drumm his lackie ceo.
We have patrick neary, john hurley and liam o'reilly of the Irish regulatory authorities (CB and IFSRA) who failed to carry out their duties on behalf of the citizens of this state.
We have IL&P executives and board who willingly aided Anglo in misleading the markets and it's shareholders.
We have fingleton who broke his own societies lending guidelines and aided fitzpatrick in concelaing director loans which is AFAIK is in contravention of Company Law.

And there are many more...

hinault · 24-09-2010 11:55AM

Cyrus wrote: »

a manson? hardly,

its not fair but as it stands at the moment he is working within the confines of the law, so what are you going to do?

if it is found in the bankruptcy precedings that he has circumvented the proper processes im sure they will deal with that,

the man has gone from being a multi millionaire, and one of the most important figures in the country to someone who has very little and whose reputation is destroyed, he has lost a lot,

people dont seem to realise this

He may have lost a lot.

He has also broken the law.
As stated earlier as Chairman and CEO of Anglo, he had a fiduciary duty to the company with regard to the Companies Acts, and I have listed several instances where the Companies Acts were violated.

Whether he has lost a lot or a little, should not influence whether or not charges are to be brought as regards violating the law.

His own financial situation is mutually exclusive from the issue of violating the law.

Mr.Micro · 24-09-2010 11:58AM

djpbarry wrote: »

Was he not accountable to the Anglo board? Were they not in turn accountable to the shareholders? As for power, was absolute control of Anglo vested in Fitzpatrick? You don’t think perhaps the CEO (David Drumm), for example, might have had a significant input into the organisation's affairs?

He had personal responsibility like any other head of a bank and clearly his board was not working ( conveniently perhaps). Next you as fan will be saying, ah shure, he did not know what he was doing in cooking the books.....shure its only a few billions or so ,they are all at it.

Care to try again without the sarcasm? Genuine question – what should happen to Seán Fitzpatrick?
At what point did I say you felt he should go to jail?

You posted

Your referral to him as “little sh*t” says otherwise.

Since jail was key word you implied that was what I wanted. Maybe that is your remedy. I for one believe in due process, freedom and justice. Its another thing when the State continually appears to sit on its hands when probably the most serious fraud in the State's history has taken place. There is a massive hole in Anglo nobody appears to know how it got there:rolleyes: Only in Ireland. I would like to see a thorough investigation into the Anglo board, Fitzpatrick, Drumm etc. Fitzpatrick was arrested in March and questioned about a so-called B&B transfer of 7.45bn Euro deposits between Irish Life & Permanent and Anglo in 2008, a scheme allegedly devised to conceal the crumbling state of the banks books. No charges have been brought.

My point is that corruption is something that is endemic in Irish society (although, admittedly, there are many countries in the world with far greater problems in that regard) – it’s not like we’re talking about an isolated incident here.

Not an isolated incident.....get real. Anglo was in a league of its own compared to the other banks and its practices. Anglo appears to have caused the most damage to our country. Its such an attitude that you appear to have condoning endemic corruption that sustains the rot and destroys out international credibility. Figures between 30 to 70 billion will be needed to rescue Anglo.....that is an isolated incident as far as I am concerned.

Fitzpatrick was given a warm reception by barristers at the four courts and had tea in the law library. That is the way to do it. News the next day of more contraction in our economy, the rate of borrowing for the Government has increased and it is predicted perhaps that if our economy contracts further we may default on some of our loan payments nothing to do with Anglo of course.

Did Fitzpatrick actually know anything about banking?? Clearly not another chancer in our long history of lauding and feting such people.

jmayo · 24-09-2010 12:09PM

Cyrus wrote: »

a manson? hardly,

How do you know ?
Have you been in it ?

Cyrus wrote: »

its not fair but as it stands at the moment he is working within the confines of the law, so what are you going to do?

if it is found in the bankruptcy precedings that he has circumvented the proper processes im sure they will deal with that,

the man has gone from being a multi millionaire, and one of the most important figures in the country to someone who has very little and whose reputation is destroyed, he has lost a lot,

people dont seem to realise this

Let me get my vilion out:rolleyes:

Ahh he lost his reputation and he lost his money.

Oh wait didn't he transfer some of his money/wealth to his wife and didn't he get his ex bank while in state hands to use 15 million of his money to pay off his families loans ?

So really he didn't lose all his money afterall.

So lets compare him to say a pensioner who had Anglo shares as their nestegg.
If they didn't sell in time they lost the lot or maybe just a big chunk of it.

Now they and indeed their stockbrokers, investment manager,etc relied on fitzpatprick to give them a fair an true financial accont of the bank.
Except he didn't do that as he hid his director loans, he lent money to select customers to buy shares in the bank and he had bogus deposits to artifically misrepresent the deposit base of the bank.

Now are you telling me he has nothing to answer for and he is worse off than say the pensioner above ?

JustAddWater · 24-09-2010 12:15PM

Cyrus wrote: »

people are guilty of this every day in every job, what do you want to happen to them?

Oh no, I accidentally left the milk out. Now we can't have tea. I'm guilty of gross neglicgence!

Oh wait ... i'm not the head of a major irish Bank. And i'm not responsible for the investments and finances of countless people of Ireland

....
Yes, people are negligent every day, but this guy is in the one position where negligence cannot be tolerated! This is not about other jobs and other people, this is about a man who screwed us all and laughs in our face and we are just supposed to let this happen

Not only is Sean Fitzpatrick bankrupt, he is morally bankrupt too. Karma will get you seanie and I will laugh at you when that day comes you smug b**tard

Cyrus · 24-09-2010 12:29PM

jmayo wrote: »

How do you know ?
Have you been in it ?

Let me get my vilion out:rolleyes:

Ahh he lost his reputation and he lost his money.

Oh wait didn't he transfer some of his money/wealth to his wife and didn't he get his ex bank while in state hands to use 15 million of his money to pay off his families loans ?

So really he didn't lose all his money afterall.

So lets compare him to say a pensioner who had Anglo shares as their nestegg.
If they didn't sell in time they lost the lot or maybe just a big chunk of it.

Now they and indeed their stockbrokers, investment manager,etc relied on fitzpatprick to give them a fair an true financial accont of the bank.
Except he didn't do that as he hid his director loans, he lent money to select customers to buy shares in the bank and he had bogus deposits to artifically misrepresent the deposit base of the bank.

Now are you telling me he has nothing to answer for and he is worse off than say the pensioner above ?

i dont know where you get the idea that i said he has nothing to answer for? i think you made that up?

so can i apply your logic to brian goggin and eugene sheehy, are we all waiting for them to be jailed too? unfortunately the pensioner, the stockbroker and investment bankers relied on them to give a true financial account of their banks, but they didnt as they werent properly impairing their loan book, the shares in those institutions are now worthless too

hinault · 24-09-2010 12:43PM

Cyrus wrote: »

i dont know where you get the idea that i said he has nothing to answer for? i think you made that up?

so can i apply your logic to brian goggin and eugene sheehy, are we all waiting for them to be jailed too? unfortunately the pensioner, the stockbroker and investment bankers relied on them to give a true financial account of their banks, but they didnt as they werent properly impairing their loan book, the shares in those institutions are now worthless too

If Goggin or Sheehy organised a share support buying scheme, took directors loans without disclosing this to the shareholders and artificially boosted the reserves of their respective banks, then yes they too should be investigated and charged (if necessary).

Cyrus · 24-09-2010 12:50PM

hinault wrote: »

If Goggin or Sheehy organised a share support buying scheme, took directors loans without disclosing this to the shareholders and artificially boosted the reserves of their respective banks, then yes they too should be investigated and charged (if necessary).

but even if they didnt do any of that, their accounts were ultimately incorrect? and the same poor old pensioner in your argument is still pennyless

hinault · 24-09-2010 12:52PM

Cyrus wrote: »

but even if they didnt do any of that, their accounts were ultimately incorrect? and the same poor old pensioner in your argument is still pennyless

AIB and BOI accounts were not misrepresented as far as we know.

Anglos accounts were misrepresented.
Anglos accounts were deliberately and willfully misrespresented.

Cyrus · 24-09-2010 12:56PM

hinault wrote: »

AIB and BOI accounts were not misrepresented as far as we know.

Anglos accounts were misrepresented.
Anglos accounts were deliberately and willfully misrespresented.

of course they were, they had impaired loans that they didnt write down, you dont think the 100s of millions of write offs they took in the last couple of years materialised in a few months do you

and re the anglo share price, fitzpatricks concealment of his personal loans wouldnt have affected the share price, the golden circle thing happened after the crap hit the fan, the moved deposits are a different story to be fair

djpbarry · 24-09-2010 12:59PM

hinault wrote: »

I would be very surprised if he isn't charged at some point because the violations are clear.
What is less transparent is whether there is the political will to see him charged.

Politics should have nothing to do with it.

hinault wrote: »

I understand peoples anger - in any other jurisdiction Fiztpatrick and the rest of the charlatans would have been arrested and charged at this point.

Any other jurisdiction? Really? Well, I suppose I can think of several jurisdictions where he might have been arrested and charged without evidence.

Biggins wrote: »

What do you want? Do you want just to let him walk? Whats your solution!

Let the Gardaí do their job?

djpbarry · 24-09-2010 01:00PM

jmayo wrote: »

Yes they would require investigation, but after two years they would have gotten somewhere unlike here.

How do you know the relevant authorities have not made any progress?

jmayo wrote: »

Ok the madoff case be not be best example, so then lets look at Milikan or the guys an Enron.
Or close to home lets look at the Ernest Saunders jailing for running a share support scheme with Guinness.

Now you’re just cherry-picking cases to suit your argument. The Madoff case illustrates perfectly how bringing a case against an alleged fraudster can take a whole lot of time and effort. People just have to be patient.

jmayo wrote: »

Why should we pick up the pieces for some very dodgy business people who so far have suantered off into the sunset.

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t.

jmayo wrote: »

They can walk away from causing billions worth of damage to the country, but yet a guy can go to jail for not paying TV license.
Oh yes it is the law, well lets make some new laws if the old laws don't cover it.
We can have a constitutional referendum to see what the people want.

Sure – go for it. If people are unhappy with the justice system, then let’s see a campaign for change.

jmayo wrote: »

You have some effing neck claiming we are blaming him erroneously for our own problems.

I’m not sure it’s being claimed that he is being blamed erroneously, but rather he has, rightly or wrongly, become the face of the Irish economic crash. But he was certainly not alone.

djpbarry · 24-09-2010 01:01PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Next you as fan will be saying, ah shure, he did not know what he was doing in cooking the books.....shure its only a few billions or so ,they are all at it.

I’m saying the same thing I have been saying since murmurings of wrongdoing at Anglo were first heard – let the Gardaí do their job.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Since jail was key word you implied that was what I wanted.

No, I wasn’t. You may have read it that way, but that’s not what I was saying.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I would like to see a thorough investigation into the Anglo board, Fitzpatrick, Drumm etc.

I would also like to see a thorough investigation, but neither you nor I know what is going on behind the scenes. I’m happy enough to let the Gardaí do their job and see what comes of it.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Fitzpatrick was arrested in March and questioned about a so-called B&B transfer of 7.45bn Euro deposits between Irish Life & Permanent and Anglo in 2008, a scheme allegedly devised to conceal the crumbling state of the banks books. No charges have been brought.

No charges have yet been brought.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Anglo was in a league of its own compared to the other banks and its practices.

Come off it. A culture of corruption has existed in Ireland for generations. It’s only just blown up in our faces because for the first time in the state’s history, Ireland was awash with money and the potential for serious damage to be done increased exponentially.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Its such an attitude that you appear to have condoning endemic corruption that sustains the rot and destroys out international credibility.

Excuse you – I am not condoning anything.

jmayo · 24-09-2010 01:21PM

Cyrus wrote: »

i dont know where you get the idea that i said he has nothing to answer for? i think you made that up?

so can i apply your logic to brian goggin and eugene sheehy, are we all waiting for them to be jailed too? unfortunately the pensioner, the stockbroker and investment bankers relied on them to give a true financial account of their banks, but they didnt as they werent properly impairing their loan book, the shares in those institutions are now worthless too

Funny how you totally disregard some of my post like the little fact the guy may technically be bankrupt, but he has transferred a large amount of wealth to his family.

As Hinault very well pointed out neither of those two other banks appears to have engaged in artifically either inflating their deposit base or underpinning share prices with bank loans.
And to claim what the other banks did as being equivalent is stretching the truth.

BTW have you been in his home as you claim it is not a mansion ?

Cyrus wrote: »

of course they were, they had impaired loans that they didnt write down, you dont think the 100s of millions of write offs they took in the last couple of years materialised in a few months do you

and re the anglo share price, fitzpatricks concealment of his personal loans wouldnt have affected the share price, the golden circle thing happened after the crap hit the fan, the moved deposits are a different story to be fair

BS. BS.
The golden cricle thing was artifically keeping a base on the share price by the company in affect buying it's own shares, misleading the stock markets, misleading the shareholders, and was done so with the company's own funds for the most part.

That was the kind of thing that Ernest Saunders went to jail for and his activity pails in comparison to that carried out by Anglo which was under the supervison of fitzpatrprick and drumm.

djpbarry wrote: »

How do you know the relevant authorities have not made any progress?

Ah FFS in all that time it appears they have talked to one of them fiztpatrick, whilst the other major player in Anglo is laughing at them form the US and they can't even take poccession of his house to repay his debts.

djpbarry wrote: »

Now you’re just cherry-picking cases to suit your argument. The Madoff case illustrates perfectly how bringing a case against an alleged fraudster can take a whole lot of time and effort. People just have to be patient.

You shot down my Madoff example, so I came back with two prime examples of insider trading and misleading the stock market through buying ones own shares.
And then you accuse me of cherry picking. :rolleyes:

Patient ?
If this cr** was pulled in any other Western democracy these guys would be in jail by now, now just receiving due process.

djpbarry wrote: »

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t.
Sure – go for it. If people are unhappy with the justice system, then let’s see a campaign for change.
I’m not sure it’s being claimed that he is being blamed erroneously, but rather he has, rightly or wrongly, become the face of the Irish economic crash. But he was certainly not alone.

Did I say he was alone ?

Cyrus · 24-09-2010 01:35PM

jmayo wrote: »

As Hinault very well pointed out neither of those two other banks appears to have engaged in artifically either inflating their deposit base or underpinning share prices with bank loans.
And to claim what the other banks did as being equivalent is stretching the truth.

BTW have you been in his home as you claim it is not a mansion ?

The golden cricle thing was artifically keeping a base on the share price by the company in affect buying it's own shares, misleading the stock markets, misleading the shareholders, and was done so with the company's own funds for the most part.

Ive seen the house, it isnt a mansion, calling it that is more sensationalism

you seem prepared to overlook the fact that BOI and AIB both issued false accounts in the years prior to their collapse, why? i never claimed that they reached the depths of anglos practices but its all tantamount to the same thing, investors shares are still worth nothing,

you all seem happy enough with this tho?

basically sean fitzpatrick has ruined ireland, but aib and boi are ok?

the golden circle transaction happened when the share price had already dropped to below €5, the horse had already bolted, while it was unethical and a breach of company law etc it happened so late in the game it just delayed the inevtiable, that being the shares become worthless

just like the rest of the banks

Mr.Micro · 24-09-2010 01:36PM

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m saying the same thing I have been saying since murmurings of wrongdoing at Anglo were first heard – let the Gardaí do their job.
No, I wasn’t. You may have read it that way, but that’s not what I was saying.
I would also like to see a thorough investigation, but neither you nor I know what is going on behind the scenes. I’m happy enough to let the Gardaí do their job and see what comes of it.
No charges have yet been brought.
Come off it. A culture of corruption has existed in Ireland for generations. It’s only just blown up in our faces because for the first time in the state’s history, Ireland was awash with money and the potential for serious damage to be done increased exponentially.
Excuse you – I am not condoning anything.

Okay we will await what the Gardai unravel.....the cynic in me will suspect that the Gardai will not be allowed to do their work as their political masters would be afraid of the fallout and where all the loans went to.

bamboozle · 24-09-2010 02:55PM

Cyrus wrote: »

Ive seen the house, it isnt a mansion, calling it that is more sensationalism

you seem prepared to overlook the fact that BOI and AIB both issued false accounts in the years prior to their collapse, why? i never claimed that they reached the depths of anglos practices but its all tantamount to the same thing, investors shares are still worth nothing,

you all seem happy enough with this tho?

basically sean fitzpatrick has ruined ireland, but aib and boi are ok?

the golden circle transaction happened when the share price had already dropped to below €5, the horse had already bolted, while it was unethical and a breach of company law etc it happened so late in the game it just delayed the inevtiable, that being the shares become worthless

just like the rest of the banks

so the fact it happened after the share price dropped below €5 we should just ignore it? it was clearly a breach of company law and the board need to be held accountable for failing in their fiduciary duties to the shareholders of the company.

Cyrus · 24-09-2010 03:08PM

bamboozle wrote: »

so the fact it happened after the share price dropped below €5 we should just ignore it? it was clearly a breach of company law and the board need to be held accountable for failing in their fiduciary duties to the shareholders of the company.

no dont ignore it, and the share price doesnt affect the unethical nature of what they did

but the writing was on the wall at that stage, its not as big a deal as people are making out, everyone knew anglo was a dead duck

djpbarry · 24-09-2010 03:30PM

jmayo wrote: »

Ah FFS in all that time it appears they have talked to one of them fiztpatrick...

You don’t know who they’ve been talking to – this is all just speculation. Everyone’s aware of their questioning of Fitzpatrick because of the media circus that surrounded it, but we really have no idea who else has been spoken to or what evidence has been compiled. Nor should we know – sensitive information relating to a fraud investigation should be kept under lock and key, out of the public domain.

jmayo wrote: »

You shot down my Madoff example, so I came back with two prime examples of insider trading and misleading the stock market through buying ones own shares.
And then you accuse me of cherry picking.

Yep, because you’re looking for examples of individuals who have been prosecuted “quickly” to illustrate what should happen to Fitzpatrick (assuming he has done something illegal), but this ignores the fact that many cases against white collar criminals take years to build.

Consider some of your examples:

Michael Milken was imprisoned in 1991, but he had been under investigation since the late 70’s.
The Enron scandal broke in 2001, but Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling were not convicted until 2006.
Ernest Saunders (and the rest of the ‘Guinness Four’) were engaging in fraudulent activities prior to Guinness’ 1986 takeover of United Distillers, but was not convicted until 1990 (several appeals kept the case running right up to around about 2001, I think).

jmayo wrote: »

If this cr** was pulled in any other Western democracy these guys would be in jail by now...

I think we both know that’s not true.

bamboozle · 24-09-2010 03:53PM

Cyrus wrote: »

no dont ignore it, and the share price doesnt affect the unethical nature of what they did

but the writing was on the wall at that stage, its not as big a deal as people are making out, everyone knew anglo was a dead duck

which brings us back to the crux of the thread, Seanie broke laws and needs be dealt with accordingly.

The horse may have bolted but this nation needs to send out a clear message to the international markets that the wild west of European Finance has had a change of guard, that those responsible for the downfall of the Irish banks need to be held accountable and if laws were broken charges pressed.
Seanie is not alone in this group of people, Drumm, Fingleton are equally culpable of failing to adhere to their fiduciary duties not to mention the roles played by Neary & the staff at the Financial Regulator who decided not to pass on pertinent information to Pat while he was snoozing at his desk.

hinault · 24-09-2010 04:45PM

Cyrus wrote: »

and re the anglo share price, fitzpatricks concealment of his personal loans wouldnt have affected the share price,

We don't know whether it would have affected Anglo's share price.

I don't recall explicitly saying that it would anyhow.

What I did say that Seanie failed in his fiduciary duty by not disclosing the loans in the statutory financial statements presented at the AGM.
Under IFRS (International Financial Reporting Standards), Seanie was legally obliged to disclose these loans and is in violation of the Companies Act also.

Cyrus wrote: »

the golden circle thing happened after the crap hit the fan,

Incorrect.

I let the Sunday Times tell the story.
Anglo Irish Bank assembled a “golden circle” of investors to buy about €300m of its shares last summer to prevent them being dumped on the market and driving down the price.
The operation to buy 10% of the bank was largely funded by borrowings from Anglo Irish itself and organised by Sean FitzPatrick, its former chairman. FitzPatrick resigned last month after it emerged he owed the bank more than €84m and had hidden loans from shareholders over an eight-year period.
Paul Appleby, the Director of Corporate Enforcement, is expected to investigate whether the loans organised last summer complied with EU rules on transparency and market manipulation. Section 60 of the Companies Act bars businesses from providing loans to third parties to buy their shares. However, the act exempts money lent as “part of the ordinary business of the company”.
The group of business people was assembled in the weeks leading up to July 15 when the family of Sean Quinn, the insurance-to-cement tycoon, had to reveal that it owned a 15% stake in Anglo Irish.
The Sunday Times has learnt that Quinn originally assembled a total holding of 25% in the bank last summer, all of which had been acquired through contracts for difference (CFDs). These allow buyers to put up a small cash payment in return for the right to buy shares at a fixed price in the future. If the shares rise in price, the buyer makes a profit. If they fall, the buyer loses. Shareholdings held through CFDs do not have to be disclosed to the Stock Exchange.

Cyrus wrote: »

the moved deposits are a different story to be fair

I would disagree : the moved deposits are the a variation on the same theme, Cyrus.
Seanie's stewardship of Anglo was Madoffesque.

hinault · 24-09-2010 04:57PM

djpbarry wrote: »

Consider some of your examples:
Michael Milken was imprisoned in 1991, but he had been under investigation since the late 70’s.

The Enron scandal broke in 2001, but Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling were not convicted until 2006.

Ernest Saunders (and the rest of the ‘Guinness Four’) were engaging in fraudulent activities prior to Guinness’ 1986 takeover of United Distillers, but was not convicted until 1990 (several appeals kept the case running right up to around about 2001, I think).

I think we both know that’s not true.

Cases do take time to build.

In relation to the Guinness Case the newly created SFO (Serious Fraud Office) was relatively new when the Guinness scandal broke.

But if you read the book by Ernest Saunders son James, Nightmare, he states that the time taken to compile the was long but initial charges were presented in court against Ernest Saunders at a relatively early stage.

Additional charges were subsequently brought by the SFO at later hearings

Backard_Pell · 24-09-2010 05:07PM

have a good read of this thread on Politics.ie It implicates Seanie Fitz (endorsed by the Dept of Finance) with the embezzlement of money into bank accounts in Austria... such a thing to be accusing people of doing!

Mr.Micro · 24-09-2010 06:28PM

Backard_Pell wrote: »

have a good read of this thread on Politics.ie It implicates Seanie Fitz (endorsed by the Dept of Finance) with the embezzlement of money into bank accounts in Austria... such a thing to be accusing people of doing!

So he could have salted away a few Euro then since the depositors names are not given out.

The thread makes jolly interesting reading and hints to me that there is major political motivation behind all this in keeping the whole murky affair under wraps as to who got loans and whatever.

flutered · 24-09-2010 06:51PM

all this will be sorted in due course, but not to the satisfaction of the majority of irish tax payers.

Liam Byrne · 24-09-2010 07:34PM

OK folks, can we get back on track ?

The point of the thread wasn't to rake over PREVIOUS wrongdoings and cover-ups of Fitzpatrick, it was to highlight the lie that he's "on €188 a month", and the fact that a lot of the media fell for it and used it for their headlines.

If I used the same criteria, I'm "on €70 a month".

Seanie Fitz "on €188 a month"

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