Calling all amateur Easter 1916 Rising historians.

14-10-2009 02:26PM #1

I am trying to research the lives of two British born socialists who fought and died in the 1916 Easter Rising.

I'm wondering if any readers here can help me and/or forward on this appeal to anyone they think might.

The first is John Neale “a Londoner … with a cockney accent, and a good socialist” (1)(2) who was stationed in the Hotel Metropole garrison under the command of Lieutenant Oscar Traynor and Charles Saurin. Neale acted as lookout, sitting “on the parapet on the top floor, scanning O'Connell Street with a pair of field – glasses” (3). He also allegedly “took 'pot-shots' at nelson's nose on the pillar until Connolly told him to desist.” (4)

During the evacuation of the Metropole, “a carelessly discharged shotgun or a stray British sniper bullet exploded an ammunition pouch (spraying) shrapnel in all directions” (5)(6) injuring volunteers Andy Furlong in the leg, Charles Saurin in the hand and John Neale in the mid region.

Neale’s “lower torso was ripped to shreds” (7), swaying he gasped to his neighbour "Can't you stand away and let a fellow lie down?" (8) He was laid on a pile of mailbags where Traynor asked, "Are you badly hurt?" to which Neale replied wryly, "I'm dying comrade". (9) In one account, Neale died in the “Castle Hospital” (10) while in another, a house in Moore Street (11) both from a severe loss of blood and after the surrender.

The second is Abraham Weekes/Weeks/Wix a Jewish socialist (12) from Norwich (13) .

In email correspondence with Darren Lynch, he has sent me two references to Weekes that he found in his Grandfathers files from research done in the 1940s into those killed in the Rising:

Arthur "Neill" Weekes ... came over to Dublin with the Kerr brothers and many other Liverpool men to partake in the Rising. He was accidentally shot on Friday the 28th April 1916 as the last of the volunteers were making their way onto Henry Street.

Weeks is also named in the 1991 An Phoblact ‘Easter 1916 Roll of Honour’ as an Englishman who died on April 28th 1916 in the ‘GPO area’

Arthur Weekes nicknamed "Niall" was from Norwich, Norfolk in the U.K. and was a member of the London Brigade.

Donal Nevin describes an individual who may be Abraham Weeks (or possibly Neale):

"A stranger applied for permission to join the insurgents. He wore an IWW (Wobblies) on his coat. He said he had come over from England hand ad a conscientious objection to fighting for capitalistic and imperialistic governments but that he also had a conscientious objection to being left out of a fight for liberty. This man whose identity is unknown - his name might have been Allen – fought bravely during the week. He was wounded in the excavation of the GPO on Friday and died the following day'" (14)

The intriguing theory now is whether these three (Neale, Weekes, Allen) British socialists could all be the same person. They have all been described as joining the Rising late and being fatally shot during the evacuation of the Metropole/GPO.

Can anyone shed any light on any of these characters or their stories?

===

1. Max Caulfield, Easter Rebellion – Dublin 1916, (1963), 231
2. Neale has also been mentioned in The Irish Times article The Cockneys and Scousers who fought for Ireland in 1916 (March 28, 2005) as “John Neale of the Irish Citizen Army” and a “Cockney member of the Citizen Army” in Donal Nevin’s 'James Connolly, A Full Life' (2005), page 657.
3. Michael Foy and Brian Barton, The Easter Rising (2000), 139-40
4. Joseph E.A. Connell Jr. List of men in the GPO Headquarters Battalion in 'Where's Where in Dublin. A Directory of Historic Locations 1913-23.' (2006), 166
5. Michael Foy and Brian Barton, The Easter Rising (2000), 149-50
6. Caulfield describes the ammunition pouch as being Andy Furlong’s. While Nevin and Good’s, 'Enchanted by Dreams…’ report it has being Neale’s. Coffey doesn’t mention an ammunition pouch but just a “shotgun … (that) sprayed out a cartridgeful of pellets”
7. Foy and Barton, The Easter Rising, 149-50
8. Thomas M. Coffey, Agony at Easter, The 1916 Irish Uprising (1969), 212
9. Max Caulfield, The Easter Rebellion - Dublin 1916 (1963), 327
10. Foy and Barton, The Easter Rising, 267
11. Joe Good, Enchanted by Dreams: The Journal of a Revolutionary (1962), 72
12. The Irish Worker (No.43. Saturday, May 3rd 1924) - “A. Weeks, a Jewish comrade who joined on Easter Monday and died in action”
13. Padraic O'Farrell, Who's Who in the Irish War of Independence and Civil War (1916-23), (2nd Edition, 1997) - WEEKES, A,. Norwich, England, 28-4-1916.
14. Nevin, James Connolly: A Full Life. 646

brianthebard · 14-10-2009 06:41PM

During the summer I read the above stories many times and came across different versions as you perhaps have. If they were real socialists from Britain/England then they most likely belonged to one of many of the socialist organisations which existed at the time. The difficulty there is there were so many groups at the time and records might not survive, but I would personally start with Liverpool socialist parties and Unions, especially those who were sympathetic to ITGWU if any. The Workers' Republic, the paper edited by Connolly in the last year of his life was sent to Liverpool if that is any help, there might have been subscriptions.
Apart from that the English Census records from the time might be of use to you.

MarchDub · 14-10-2009 08:42PM

You might want to check out the work of Dermot Keogh of UCC - he has done extensive research on Jews in Ireland.

Also you might contact the Jewish Museum in Walsworth Rd, Dublin - they are very helpful and knowledgeable about Jewish participation in Irish life.

14-10-2009 11:45PM

brianthebard wrote: »

During the summer I read the above stories many times and came across different versions as you perhaps have. If they were real socialists from Britain/England then they most likely belonged to one of many of the socialist organisations which existed at the time. The difficulty there is there were so many groups at the time and records might not survive, but I would personally start with Liverpool socialist parties and Unions, especially those who were sympathetic to ITGWU if any. The Workers' Republic, the paper edited by Connolly in the last year of his life was sent to Liverpool if that is any help, there might have been subscriptions.
Apart from that the English Census records from the time might be of use to you.

Thanks brianthebard for the reply.

I've already been in contact with the IWW's main archivist William LeFevre but with no luck. As expected, they haven't kept membership lists from as far back as the 1910s. I'll try the liverpool route now.

I've also dipped into the English census but with so many John Neale's living in the East End, it's like a needle in a haystack.

14-10-2009 11:48PM

MarchDub wrote: »

You might want to check out the work of Dermot Keogh of UCC - he has done extensive research on Jews in Ireland.

Thanks for this lead. Will do.

MarchDub wrote: »

Also you might contact the Jewish Museum in Walsworth Rd, Dublin - they are very helpful and knowledgeable about Jewish participation in Irish life.

I actually went into the Jewish Museum and talked to the curator Raphael about this mysterious jewish socialist but he could add no information to what we already know. Sadly Raphael passed away a few weeks afterwards, a great loss.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/obituaries/2009/0207/1233867925000.html

boneless · 15-10-2009 11:30AM

This is a long-shot, but have you contacted the Military History Archive people in Cathal Brugha Barracks, Dublin? There may be something in the depositions taken in the 1940's from the 1916 survivors.

MarchDub · 15-10-2009 08:49PM

1968 wrote: »

I actually went into the Jewish Museum and talked to the curator Raphael about this mysterious jewish socialist but he could add no information to what we already know. Sadly Raphael passed away a few weeks afterwards, a great loss.

Yes, Raphael was a really great guy - I was sad to hear of his passing. A few years ago he was of help to me when I was doing material on another great Irish Jewish figure, Bob Briscoe, who was also IRA and was appointed arms purveyor under Collins. The Jewish contribution to Irish freedom is understated IMO.

I would be interested in any results you come up with.

Snickers Man · 16-10-2009 12:37AM

MarchDub wrote: »

The Jewish contribution to Irish freedom is understated IMO.

.

Reading the memoirs of another illustrious Irish Jew, Chaim Herzog who went on to become president of Israel, he made the point that many Jews were involved in the national struggle at some level or another and most leading Jews backed Irish independence. This included his own father, the Chief Rabbi, who was very close to De Valera.

As well as Briscoe there was another character called Michael Noik who was a legal adviser to the provisional government and was given a state funeral when he died in the 1960s. Somewhat distressingly, his great nephew is the arch neocon and borderline racist Canadian journalist Mark Steyn whose rants used to appear in the Irish Times.

man1 · 16-10-2009 08:11PM

MarchDub wrote: »

Yes, Raphael was a really great guy - I was sad to hear of his passing. A few years ago he was of help to me when I was doing material on another great Irish Jewish figure, Bob Briscoe, who was also IRA and was appointed arms purveyor under Collins. The Jewish contribution to Irish freedom is understated IMO.

I would be interested in any results you come up with.

Hi
I am very interested in the story of Bob Briscoe. I have read his book "for the life of me". I am particularly interested in his involvement with fianna eireann and especially his friendship with Eamon Martin (who was, i think, best man at his wedding). Was it college work that you did on Briscoe or personal research?

Curiousgal · 18-09-2010 10:11PM

I'm trying to find out what happened to James J. Kelly, who owned the tobacco shop on the corner of Camden St. & Harrington St. (Kelly's Corner). Two pro-British journalists who were on his premises during a raid by soldiers on 25th April 1916 - McIntyre and Dixon - were arrested and executed unlawfully the following day along with Sheehy-Skeffington. Kelly was later arrested (in error) and deported to Wandsworth Jail, London, where he was tortured but released without charge 16 days later. He was an Alderman, Justice of the Peace, and one-time High Sherriff of Dublin. Does anyone know what happened to him after 1916?
Thanks.

Dionysus · 23-09-2010 09:11PM

1968 wrote: »

I am trying to research the lives of two British born socialists who fought and died in the 1916 Easter Rising.

A guy in The Irish Times in March 2005 wrote an article dedicated to English-born people who fought in the Easter Rising on the Irish side. Here's the link to it.

SineadMaria · 30-09-2010 08:36PM

1968 wrote: »

I am trying to research the lives of two British born socialists who fought and died in the 1916 Easter Rising.

not sure if you have tried this but you could check the irish newspaper archives, it is an online database of all newpapers from ireland going back to 1763.

22-10-2010 07:23PM

Dionysus wrote: »

A guy in The Irish Times in March 2005 wrote an article dedicated to English-born people who fought in the Easter Rising on the Irish side. Here's the link to it.

Thanks, I've read that piece before. Cheers for the heads up though.

johnny_doyle · 23-10-2010 08:23AM

in "Wexford's Civil War" mention is made of Volunteer George King (an insurance agent) who left his home in Liverpool for Ireland where he took part in the Rising and was interned in Fron Goch. Active during the Tan War under the name Nicholas Murphy. Died in the Meath Hospital 5th Feb 1923 following an attack on a military party guarding the ruined house of the Free State Chief Solicitor, Mr Corrigan, Leinster Rd, Rathmines. King was 26, single and came from Blackwater, Co Wexford stock.

I've not yet been able to find out if this man was English born of Irish parents, or Irish born and emigrated when young.

23-10-2010 02:41PM

johnny_doyle wrote: »

in "Wexford's Civil War" mention is made of Volunteer George King (an insurance agent) who left his home in Liverpool for Ireland where he took part in the Rising and was interned in Fron Goch.

A George King is listed here as a member of the ICA who fought in the GPO.

http://www.communistpartyofireland.ie/ica.html

myonehere · 05-12-2010 09:59AM

Curiousgal wrote: »

I'm trying to find out what happened to James J. Kelly, who owned the tobacco shop on the corner of Camden St. & Harrington St. (Kelly's Corner). Two pro-British journalists who were on his premises during a raid by soldiers on 25th April 1916 - McIntyre and Dixon - were arrested and executed unlawfully the following day along with Sheehy-Skeffington. Kelly was later arrested (in error) and deported to Wandsworth Jail, London, where he was tortured but released without charge 16 days later. He was an Alderman, Justice of the Peace, and one-time High Sherriff of Dublin. Does anyone know what happened to him after 1916?
Thanks.

I can tell you that James J Kelly was certainly still around in 1923 and giving his address as 35 Upper Camden Street [Although I seem to remember reading somewhere that, by then, he was living at a large house on the outskirts of Dublin.

This is proven from the original logbook of one of the vintage cars I own– James J Kelly was the first owner entry and he gives the tobacco shop address in Upper Camden St.. The owner changed in 1934 [9 years was quite a long time to own a car then] to a Mr Patrick Hession and then to Henry Barlee – both also of Dublin.

We must assume that [Alderman] James Kelly was still reasonably well-off in 1923 to have the wherewithal to be able to purchase a car new – and a Bugatti at that!

I should be most interested to hear of anyone knows any further about any of these gentlemen or, indeed, cars in general in Dublin during 1923!

ardobod · 21-12-2010 11:12PM

johnny_doyle wrote: »

in "Wexford's Civil War" mention is made of Volunteer George King (an insurance agent) who left his home in Liverpool for Ireland where he took part in the Rising and was interned in Fron Goch. Active during the Tan War under the name Nicholas Murphy. Died in the Meath Hospital 5th Feb 1923 following an attack on a military party guarding the ruined house of the Free State Chief Solicitor, Mr Corrigan, Leinster Rd, Rathmines. King was 26, single and came from Blackwater, Co Wexford stock.

I've not yet been able to find out if this man was English born of Irish parents, or Irish born and emigrated when young.

.

George King was my grand uncle
He was the youngest of the the King brothers John , Pat , Edward, all born in Liverpool of Irish stock. His older brothers came to Dublin for the 1916 rising and were attached to the Kimmage Garrison . John ,Pat , and Edward all faught in the GPO. John my grandfather was badly wounded by a bullet while evacuating the burning building.
. As far as I am aware George was not in the GPO or Dublin during the rising and arrived in the city later on. During the civil war George was the only brother not to be on the side of the Free State. John King

akiva.mahon · 25-06-2014 11:52AM

myonehere wrote: »

I can tell you that James J Kelly was certainly still around in 1923 and giving his address as 35 Upper Camden Street [Although I seem to remember reading somewhere that, by then, he was living at a large house on the outskirts of Dublin.

This is proven from the original logbook of one of the vintage cars I own– James J Kelly was the first owner entry and he gives the tobacco shop address in Upper Camden St.. The owner changed in 1934 [9 years was quite a long time to own a car then] to a Mr Patrick Hession and then to Henry Barlee – both also of Dublin.

We must assume that [Alderman] James Kelly was still reasonably well-off in 1923 to have the wherewithal to be able to purchase a car new – and a Bugatti at that!

I should be most interested to hear of anyone knows any further about any of these gentlemen or, indeed, cars in general in Dublin during 1923!

I'm one of Alderman James Kelly grandchildren, from my mother's side, nee Marie Kelly. As far as we know Mr. Kelly had no children from his first wife. He remarried, don't know exactly when and from his second marriage he had five children. My mother was born in 1925, the eldest of the five. What I understood from my mother, aside from dealing in tobacco he also invested in the stock market. He went bankrupt in 1939. A large majority of his stocks were from the Marconi electronic company and because of the connection with the Mussolini regime their stocks failed. Two of his daughters are still alive, namely Maeve Burket and Patricia Ellison.

akiva.mahon · 25-06-2014 11:55AM

myonehere wrote: »

I can tell you that James J Kelly was certainly still around in 1923 and giving his address as 35 Upper Camden Street [Although I seem to remember reading somewhere that, by then, he was living at a large house on the outskirts of Dublin.

This is proven from the original logbook of one of the vintage cars I own– James J Kelly was the first owner entry and he gives the tobacco shop address in Upper Camden St.. The owner changed in 1934 [9 years was quite a long time to own a car then] to a Mr Patrick Hession and then to Henry Barlee – both also of Dublin.

We must assume that [Alderman] James Kelly was still reasonably well-off in 1923 to have the wherewithal to be able to purchase a car new – and a Bugatti at that!

I should be most interested to hear of anyone knows any further about any of these gentlemen or, indeed, cars in general in Dublin during 1923!

I'm one of Alderman James Kelly grandchildren, from my mother's side, nee Marie Kelly. As far as we know Mr. Kelly had no children from his first wife. He remarried, don't know exactly when and from his second marriage he had five children. My mother was born in 1925, the eldest of the five. What I understood from my mother, aside from dealing in tobacco he also invested in the stock market. He went bankrupt in 1939. A large majority of his stocks were from the Marconi electronic company and because of the connection with the Mussolini regime their stocks failed. Two of his daughters are still alive, namely Maeve Burket and Patricia Ellison. Mr. Kelly passed away in 1954.

Santa Cruz · 26-06-2014 06:56PM

Can't be of much help but thanks lads for all the references. The English based IRB groups had a significant part to play in the run up to and the actual Rising. I do have some info re the London Centre. Collins, Dunne, Hegarty Sheahan and others left their London jobs in the Spring of 1916 to return to Ireland for what was to be an all Ireland Rising

Curiousgal · 10-08-2014 02:13PM

akiva.mahon wrote: »

I'm one of Alderman James Kelly grandchildren, from my mother's side, nee Marie Kelly. As far as we know Mr. Kelly had no children from his first wife. He remarried, don't know exactly when and from his second marriage he had five children. My mother was born in 1925, the eldest of the five. What I understood from my mother, aside from dealing in tobacco he also invested in the stock market. He went bankrupt in 1939. A large majority of his stocks were from the Marconi electronic company and because of the connection with the Mussolini regime their stocks failed. Two of his daughters are still alive, namely Maeve Burket and Patricia Ellison. Mr. Kelly passed away in 1954.

That's great to know Mr. Kelly has living descendants! I put up the original request for information about him as I have a postcard/personal photo signed by him in 1916. I will PM you with some more info I found that you may or may not be aware of. He seems to have been such an interesting character and given how well known 'Kelly's Corner' is in Dublin, I was amazed at how little info is available on him personally on the web.

myonehere · 04-11-2014 08:48PM

akiva.mahon wrote: »

I'm one of Alderman James Kelly grandchildren, from my mother's side, nee Marie Kelly. As far as we know Mr. Kelly had no children from his first wife. He remarried, don't know exactly when and from his second marriage he had five children. My mother was born in 1925, the eldest of the five. What I understood from my mother, aside from dealing in tobacco he also invested in the stock market. He went bankrupt in 1939. A large majority of his stocks were from the Marconi electronic company and because of the connection with the Mussolini regime their stocks failed. Two of his daughters are still alive, namely Maeve Burket and Patricia Ellison.

How wonderful to read this, after long break from this board. If you would like to know, we have collected some information together about James Kelly. And might you like a copy of my cars logbook?
regards

mimi whelan · 11-11-2016 01:43AM

Hi I am another descendant of JJ Kelly sister to your previous respondent, I would love to expand on the information you have already if you are still interested.

myonehere · 11-11-2016 09:18AM

hello Mimi,

.. thankyou for the reply and yes, I am still very interested in any information that you can supply on James J Kelly..
best regards
Paul T

Chuchote · 11-11-2016 09:35AM

There's this famous article about Alderman Kelly

https://thecricketbatthatdiedforireland.com/2013/09/07/16-days-of-internment-alderman-james-j-kelly-1916/

James J. Kelly, a 45 year old merchant, owned a tobacconist shop on the corner of Camden Street and Harrington Street, also known as ‘Kelly’s Corner’. He was a Dublin Corporation Alderman, a Justice of the Peace and had previously held the office of High Sheriff of Dublin. Kelly was a Nationalist, but not a member of either Sinn Fein or the Irish Volunteers, believing more moderately in self-determination for Ireland. However, on the 26th April 1916, the third day of the Rising, he found himself suddenly linked to the rebels and to the story of Francis Sheehy Skeffington.

I assume you've contacted the archivist in Dublin City Council (the former Dublin Corporation, of which James Kelly was an alderman)?

myonehere · 11-11-2016 06:37PM

I have sent you an message here - if you would like to Email me I can pass on quite a lot of further information on James Kelly ..

best regards
PT

pedroeibar1 · 11-11-2016 07:04PM

FWIW - Interesting that he invested in Marconi - Marconi's wife was Irish, one of the whiskey Jamesons.

Chuchote · 12-11-2016 12:49AM

Marconi was a Fascist. Though his radio invention was politically neutral.

paul71 · 14-11-2016 04:31AM

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

FWIW - Interesting that he invested in Marconi - Marconi's wife was Irish, one of the whiskey Jamesons.

???

I thought that was his mother, not wife?

Peregrinus · 14-11-2016 04:40AM

Both his mother and his first wife were Irish. It was his mother who was descended from the Jameson whiskey family. His first wife was an O'Brien.

Alex Worby · 24-02-2018 09:34PM

Hi Paul and other descendants of James J Kelly.
We are trying to establish whether James had an older brother Terence who also was a Justice of the Peace and jeweller/pawnbroker at Fleet Street.
We are descendants of Terence Kelly.

Thanks
Alex

Calling all amateur Easter 1916 Rising historians.

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