Scrap all rent allowance and tax breaks on property

Austerity · 23-09-2010 04:33AM #1

On thing the Irish government should do is to scrap all rent allowance and tax breaks on property. The reason for this is two-fold. Ireland is running a huge budget deficit and cannot afford rent allowance and tax breaks on property. Second rent allowance sets an artificial floor on how low rents can go. Why should landlords benefit from government subsidies?

Jesus Wept · 23-09-2010 04:39AM

Are you trolling or serious (considering your first post/thread in AH and now this).
Scraping rent allowance would lead to massive increase in homelessness and civil unrest.

old_aussie · 23-09-2010 05:46AM

Scrap rent allowance and decrease tax breaks on property.

Ireland needs to do something by themselves to recover, otherwise the IMF come in and take over.

That doesn't look good as it shows the elected gov cannot do it, that is, manage the financial affairs of the country.

A long slow road to recovery for Ireland.

See latest news about Poland and Romania

syklops · 23-09-2010 06:10AM

old_aussie wrote: »

See latest news about Poland and Romania

Why what happened?

Austerity · 23-09-2010 06:24AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

Are you trolling or serious (considering your first post/thread in AH and now this).
Scraping rent allowance would lead to massive increase in homelessness and civil unrest.

I advocate serious austerity to get the house in order. I would also have let the to big to fail, fail.

Private debt should never ever be allowed to become a liability for the taxpayer.

ei.sdraob · 23-09-2010 07:09AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

Are you trolling or serious (considering your first post/thread in AH and now this).
Scraping rent allowance would lead to massive increase in homelessness and civil unrest.

Dude the way the country is going things will lead to a default, homelessness and civil unrest anyways, we are already paying extortionate interest rates on debt for which YOU, me, everyone will be paying one way or another

all of these subsidies and tax breaks are distorting the market, leading for more expensive prices for all

i would go further than OP and also scrap NAMA, hence sending property values crashing even more ensuing that buying/renting is alot more affordable! and before you accuse me of self-interest I am a houseowner and you think i shouldn't be saying what i did above, but i understand very well having rented until recently how messed up the property/rental market is!

Austerity wrote: »

Private debt should never ever be allowed to become a liability for the taxpayer.

true! the country was terrorised into taking over debts of others and now the country is screwed not some private banks

syklops · 23-09-2010 07:14AM

Austerity wrote: »

I advocate serious austerity to get the house in order. I would also have let the to big to fail, fail.

Private debt should never ever be allowed to become a liability for the taxpayer.

You didnt answer my question, what happened in Poland??

Austerity · 23-09-2010 07:24AM

syklops wrote: »

You didnt answer my question, what happened in Poland??

I never said anything about Poland.

old_aussie · 23-09-2010 07:44AM

syklops wrote: »

Why what happened?

http://www.euronews.net/2010/09/23/romanians-protest-against-government-austerity/

Same in Poland

23-09-2010 07:46AM

Austerity wrote: »

Second rent allowance sets an artificial floor on how low rents can go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWlz1IKWfw4

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

a floor in the market is what NAMA is all about...............!

Nijmegen · 23-09-2010 08:35AM

Why are you linking tax breaks and rent allowance? Rent allowance is keeping people from becoming homeless.

Austerity · 23-09-2010 08:39AM

Nijmegen wrote: »

Why are you linking tax breaks and rent allowance? Rent allowance is keeping people from becoming homeless.

Rent allowance sets an artificial floor on how low rents can go. If we scrap the rent allowance you will see rents go down as there are alot of empty houses in the country.

Nijmegen · 23-09-2010 08:46AM

Austerity wrote: »

Rent allowance sets an artificial floor on how low rents can go. If we scrap the rent allowance you will see rents go down as there are alot of empty houses in the country.

The idea is a good one (trying to find a way to lower rents and ensure rent allowance does not set a floor.)

But what do you do with all the people who would become homeless because they can't afford rent, heat and food on €196 a week?

Austerity · 23-09-2010 08:48AM

Nijmegen wrote: »

The idea is a good one (trying to find a way to lower rents and ensure rent allowance does not set a floor.)

But what do you do with all the people who would become homeless because they can't afford rent, heat and food on €196 a week?

Do you suggest the goverment should continue borrow money to pay these benefits? Borrowing money to give people benefits is insane.

Nijmegen · 23-09-2010 08:52AM

Austerity wrote: »

Do you suggest the goverment should continue borrow money to pay these benefits? Borrowing money to give people benefits is insane.

The only things the government do that aren't benefits of some sort are policing, defence, infrastructure and err, regulation.

Are you suggesting that we stop paying for education, pensions, healthcare, etc etc etc? We become a US style state?

Whilst I agree that welfare can be done an awful lot better, you need to clarify here if you are just against the welfare state in general.

The idea of removing a benefit that protects people from becoming homeless (something that, in the long run, will cost the state a lot more in other problems) is silly, black and white stuff. Why don't we slide the scale a bit more to the middle and look for ways to give it in a smarter fashion, to help reduce rents?

Austerity · 23-09-2010 08:58AM

Nijmegen wrote: »

The only things the government do that aren't benefits of some sort are policing, defence, infrastructure and err, regulation.

Are you suggesting that we stop paying for education, pensions, healthcare, etc etc etc? We become a US style state?

Whilst I agree that welfare can be done an awful lot better, you need to clarify here if you are just against the welfare state in general.

The idea of removing a benefit that protects people from becoming homeless (something that, in the long run, will cost the state a lot more in other problems) is silly, black and white stuff. Why don't we slide the scale a bit more to the middle and look for ways to give it in a smarter fashion, to help reduce rents?

What I think of the welfare state does not matter, the fact is that Ireland can't afford its current level of spending. Can we both agree on this?

Count Dooku · 23-09-2010 09:01AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

Are you trolling or serious (considering your first post/thread in AH and now this).
Scraping rent allowance would lead to massive increase in homelessness and civil unrest.

We have plenty empty NAMA properties to house people, who will lose their accommodation
Civil unrest from greedy landlords sounds scary, but probably country will survive

ei.sdraob · 23-09-2010 09:05AM

Austerity wrote: »

What I think of the welfare state does not matter, the fact is that Ireland can't afford its current level of spending. Can we both agree on this?

He is not going to agree on this since people dont like admitting that the reckless political policies will lead to bigger issues down the road

Nijmegen · 23-09-2010 09:10AM

Let me be clear, as I have been consistently saying around here for quite some time:

I do believe in the safety nets of the welfare state. I do not believe that ours is a particularly well run welfare state, and that with the proper application of a means tested tax and benefits system we could both save money (by removing blanket benefits not all people need) and increase fairness (let's give the 24 year old living at home with both parents working less dole than the 20 year old who has been working 3 years and out of the family home for 2... Rather than saying, "Oh, you're 22, 300 days old, you need €46 less than you will in 65 days!")

I agree with cuts. But blanket removing rent allowance... Well, you say scrap it but propose nothing to say how people are to live afterwards. A homeless person will cost the state more to look after in the long run than a person with a roof over their head, who gets educated and put into productive work.

gurramok · 23-09-2010 09:12AM

I wouldn't agree to scrap it, slash it in half yes. No reason for a bog standard 1bed in Dublin to be rented on RS for 900quid a month.

The govt control 50% of the private rental market. A combination of moving long term renters into social housing in areas with amenities and slashing the RS by half is the best solution in my view.

23-09-2010 09:14AM

Nijmegen wrote: »

I do believe in the safety nets of the welfare state.

the problem is it has become a landlords dole

liammur · 23-09-2010 09:24AM

Count Dooku wrote: »

We have plenty empty NAMA properties to house people, who will lose their accommodation
Civil unrest from greedy landlords sounds scary, but probably country will survive

Take regeneration in Limerick, all they need do is put people in these empty houses instead of squandering billions building new ones.

Rent allowance certainly needs to be reduced, but scrapping it is far too drastic.

mikemac · 23-09-2010 09:28AM

You can't abolish it overnight.
It can be reduced in increments over time

Of course many councils have signed long term contracts with landlords on the RAS scheme. Those contracts can't be broken either.
And if they were signed two years ago it's pretty certain the council is paying well above current market rate

gurramok wrote: »

I wouldn't agree to scrap it, slash it in half yes. No reason for a bog standard 1bed in Dublin to be rented on RS for 900quid a month.

Max rate is the rate for a couple which is €770

And you'll get a perfectly fine one bed in Dublin for that.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement

Cavehill Red · 23-09-2010 09:30AM

Problem with this plan is the NAMA ghost estates are not located where people want and need to live. Privately owned dwellings are.
Scrap rent allowance and Dublin (and Galway, Cork centres too) become the local equivalent of Manhattan, where the poor cannot afford to live.
If I have a house to rent out in Rathmines or Clontarf (I don't incidentally) I'll find someone who wants to live in it, whether there is rent allowance or none in the world.
All this proposal would achieve is the slow eviction of poor people from the city.

Spudmonkey · 23-09-2010 09:30AM

liammur wrote: »

Take regeneration in Limerick, all they need do is put people in these empty houses instead of squandering billions building new ones.

Rent allowance certainly needs to be reduced, but scrapping it is far too drastic.

I frankly have a serious problem with someone struggling to pay their mortgage and someone else waltzing into a free house beside them.

liammur · 23-09-2010 09:33AM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

I frankly have a serious problem with someone struggling to pay their mortgage and someone else waltzing into a free house beside them.

If the truth be told, I'd say everyone else does too.

Rent allowance can't be scrapped, but it must be reduced significantly.

gurramok · 23-09-2010 09:34AM

feelingstressed wrote: »

Max rate is the rate for a couple which is €770

And you'll get a perfectly fine one bed in Dublin for that.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement

I did not specify who gets it and they can rent any type of place within the limits, that could be a 1bed, 2bed or 3 bed semi. If they have kids, they get more, 930 from DCC.

A 'single mother' aged 19 with 1 kid rents a 2bed for 900 quid across from me in the apt complex while the rest of us go to work. Where is the justice in that?

liammur · 23-09-2010 09:42AM

gurramok wrote: »

I did not specify who gets it and they can rent any type of place within the limits, that could be a 1bed, 2bed or 3 bed semi. If they have kids, they get more, 930 from DCC.

A 'single mother' aged 19 with 1 kid rents a 2bed for 900 quid across from me in the apt complex while the rest of us go to work. Where is the justice in that?

And count yourself lucky, people in Limerick (neighbouring parts of clare & Tipp) have a serious problem. Corporation and council are moving undesirables that have thrashed their own estates by their thousands out into a house near you. How fair is that? :mad:

No wonder the country is the way it is.

mikemac · 23-09-2010 09:44AM

You specified a one bed for 900

Tbh, if there are children it should be a two bed or more. Not ideal to have the entire family in one room so I just picked the couple rate

Anyway, I'm going off-topic

@liamur, Tipperary town and Newport are just two examples for your post.
Newport used to be a village, not anymore

Nijmegen · 23-09-2010 09:45AM

Putting people into NAMA housing etc creates other problems.

The state, as landlord, would have obligations to these people.

The entire system would need to be managed by the state - Eg. More public servants or a tasty contract to some management companies.

The state would become liable for any legal actions and other mess arising from it all.

The more people become dependant on the state, the more difficult it is to remove that benefit and easier it is to extend and deepen it, say, six months before a general election.

Spudmonkey · 23-09-2010 09:47AM

feelingstressed wrote: »

You specified a one bed for 900

Tbh, if there are children it should be a two bed or more. Not ideal to have the entire family in one room so I just picked the couple rate

And yet nothing about the fact that she is getting it for nothing? I'll reiterate your point liammur, it's no wonder the country is the way it is.

Scrap all rent allowance and tax breaks on property

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