HSE pays out 20 million for legal advice... and their supposed to be short of money??

the_dark_side · 13-09-2010 12:17PM #1

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cashstrapped-hse-still-pays-out-euro20m-for-legal-advice-2335235.html

Tipp Man · 13-09-2010 12:22PM

What is the annual health budget in Ireland? 11 billion odd i think

Not sure that this is particularly high on legal expenses. When you are dealing with millions of patients annually there are going to be legal claims

I would imagine that many companies around the world with 11 billion odd expenditure have a lot higher legal bills than that

wowa · 13-09-2010 12:49PM

probably pales into insignifcance compared with the claims against individual physicians- second most medical litigious society in the world after US. explains the huge personal indemnity they have to pay which will ultimately be a deterent to recruiting GPs especially, who are not as handsomely remunerated as the specialists. i suspect the GP service will ultimately be wound down in this country so that the specialists will have the run of things. there will be no filter into the system, colds being seen by ENT specialists, blood pressures being managed by cardiologists. the public system will be a thing of the past and specialists will charge what they like. good luck everyone!

Kristopherus · 13-09-2010 01:14PM

wowa wrote: »

probably pales into insignifcance compared with the claims against individual physicians- second most medical litigious society in the world after US. explains the huge personal indemnity they have to pay which will ultimately be a deterent to recruiting GPs especially, who are not as handsomely remunerated as the specialists. i suspect the GP service will ultimately be wound down in this country so that the specialists will have the run of things. there will be no filter into the system, colds being seen by ENT specialists, blood pressures being managed by cardiologists. the public system will be a thing of the past and specialists will charge what they like. good luck everyone!

Just remember that the HSE subsidises the insurance premia of Consultants and GPs, up to 90%. This is no impediment to anyone entering the GP service. The GP service is being expanded at present.

mikemac · 13-09-2010 01:33PM

Work as a doctor and it's pretty inevitable you'll face a claim at some stage.
Only the USA has more litigation.

60 million over 4 years of the HSE budget is a fraction of a percent.
Maybe money can be saved for sure, but a doctor who works for the HSE and is facing legal claims does get support.
It's a necessary expense

wowa · 13-09-2010 01:38PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Just remember that the HSE subsidises the insurance premia of Consultants and GPs, up to 90%. This is no impediment to anyone entering the GP service. The GP service is being expanded at present.

They don't subsidise mine, currently 6000Eur per year. Whilst there are no impedments, there are plenty of disinsentives such as the recently reduced fee for patient lists, the almost compulsory buy-in to partnerships, the lack of support to manage every day GP problems, poor lab services, the non-existent public referral system- 223 days to see an internist, the constant conundrum of private healthcare cover. Oh, and plenty of incentives to go abroad. Canada and Oz/NZ societies haven't gone tits up.

RichardAnd · 13-09-2010 07:10PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

What is the annual health budget in Ireland? 11 billion odd i think

It was my understanding that it was more like 15 billion, but what's an extra billion or two anymore.

Nijmegen · 13-09-2010 09:58PM

Health is an area open to litigation in general. Though the HSE has also had to face off claims from individuals who have been harmed whilst in their care and so forth, adding to said legal bill.

I think it's fair enough that they have a legal bill, though as with all spending I'd say it could be more tightly controlled. But that's the HSE in general...

pygmypossum · 20-09-2010 11:32AM

Won't be long now before there are more office based staff than actual clinical staff on the wards...depressing reading.:(

Sizzler · 20-09-2010 11:38AM

pygmypossum wrote: »

Won't be long now before there are more office based staff than actual clinical staff on the wards...depressing reading.:(

I think you will find there already is!

Why dont you ask the dept of health how many staff they have and what they actually do? Then go and ask the HSE how many of their staff are back office.

You will very quickly see the problem!

Dept of health has 10 times the required staff.

dan_d · 20-09-2010 12:46PM

The thing is that if the HSE have this many legal claims, which is obviously a feature of the field they're operating in - at some point they need to consider employing their own legal team within the organisation, as it will add up to the same amount that it costs to seek advice.

It's like a company taking somebody on temporarily to do a certain job - either on a contract basis, or as a "temp", and 2 years later they're still there, with nothing be renegotiated or discussed. Doesn't make any sense.

As for their staff issues - well let's not go there. I can almost guarantee you that the clinical staff are a smaller percentage of their overall staff than their admin people.

Riskymove · 20-09-2010 01:01PM

Sizzler wrote: »

Dept of health has 10 times the required staff.

scientifically proven I suppose?

you are suggesting 50 or 60 people would be sufficient to staff the Department?

Head The Wall · 20-09-2010 10:36PM

We'll leave it up to you so to prove that they actually do anything, they don't seem to do feck all in my eyes. He's dead right to question it

It just seems to be another layer to apportion blame without repurcussions between Harney and the HSE

HSE pays out 20 million for legal advice... and their supposed to be short of money??

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