Banking scare threads and the truth.

Jev/N · 09-09-2010 05:00AM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I didnt mean to scare anyone, i was just stated the way things could go in the forseable future.

That's like saying the world will end in 2012. It's possible; but with that point of view, anything is.

ch750536 · 09-09-2010 07:58AM

Dev, sorry mate but you are full of crap. Nobody knows what is around the corner and your pro europe stance will last as long as the germans sense of humour.

Whilst I agree a run on the banks is not warranted, to tell people that things will be rosy to the degree where you claim a default of the state will not affect the commercial banks is exactly the ignorance your OP was trying to eliminate.

There are many strings on many bows with many people fighting over them, some of them good, some of them bad. That is the reality of the finance of the world right now. Anything can and may happen.

jackiebaron · 09-09-2010 10:24AM

mike65 wrote: »

Don't worry about defaulting, the EU/ECB will simply not allow it to happen for reasons that have nothing to do with Ireland

The EU/ECB don't act in anyone's interest. Trichet is bailing out banks but forcing austerity measures on Joe Public. Don't state that so-and-so won't let it happen just because it comforts you. The entire financial collapse was manufactured, it wasn't an accident so if you think these scumbags won't allow certain things to happen then you're just being naive. I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom merchant but false hope and wishful thinking are very dangerous.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26308.htm

POINTBREAK · 09-09-2010 10:31AM

New York Times article

jackiebaron · 09-09-2010 10:33AM

DeVore wrote: »

Ireland Inc defaulting on its governmental borrowings is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be allowed to happen. If it did, it would mean the cost of borrowing for the government would rocket and we'd have to "live within our means".

However, the Bank of Ireland / AIB / Etc are not national banks, they are effectively privately owned businesses and as such wouldnt be immediately affected. The knock on effects might not be pleasant (the guarantee would probably be seen as unsustainable for a start) but again, this wouldnt be allowed to crash the banking system.

So, if Ireland Inc defaulted (very unlikely to be allowed happen) there would be no direct effect on banking here. There may be ramifications but everything along this chain is in the "highly unlikely to be allowed happen" category.

DeV.

Will you stop with the "unlikely to be allowed to happen" bullsh!t!
What are you basing this feeble hope on?

Banned Account · 09-09-2010 10:34AM

jackiebaron wrote: »

The EU/ECB don't act in anyone's interest. Trichet is bailing out banks but forcing austerity measures on Joe Public. Don't state that so-and-so won't let it happen just because it comforts you. The entire financial collapse was manufactured, it wasn't an accident so if you think these scumbags won't allow certain things to happen then you're just being naive. I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom merchant but false hope and wishful thinking are very dangerous.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26308.htm

From another thread I brought you this :-

How to Make a Tinfoil Hat

The mention of a tin foil hat brings to mind the movie image of a derelict stumbling though the streets with an aluminum beanie perched on his head to protect himself from alien rays or governmental mind control. But for the paranoid among us, a tin foil hat is the ultimate in protective headgear. Foil hats are easy to make and free as well.

Difficulty: Easy
Instructions

Things You'll Need:
Five or Six Feet of Heavy Duty Aluminum Foil
Scissors
Tape
Pencil or Ball Point Pen
Rope, Twine, Ribbon or Other Material to Tie Hat on Head
Make an Emergency Tin Foil Hat
1
Grab a couple of pieces of aluminum foil. The ones in the trash that were used to cover leftover casseroles or wrap fresh fish will do just fine.
2
Place one piece of aluminum foil on your head from front to back.
3
Mash the foil down to conform to the shape of your head and fit as snugly as possible.
4
Take the second piece of aluminum foil and place across the top of the head from ear to ear.
5
Mash the second piece of foil down over the first piece making a quick tin foil hat that probably won't hold up for long but will do in a pinch.
6
Stand the two pieces of foil up and fold over at each end to make a cone shaped hat. This hat design will take a little more time, but is worth the extra effort.
7
Place the tin cone on the head and mash it all together above the head to seal out dangerous rays and deflect mind control waves outward.
Make a Basic Tinfoil Hat
1
Find five or six feet of heavy duty aluminum foil.
2
Fold the aluminum foil several times, making a 12 inch square with the shiny side out.
3
Cut the foil from one side to the center in a straight line.
4
Bend the foil with one side under the other to make a cone shape, leaving the shiny side showing.
5
Place the cone shaped tin foil hat on the head and adjust the fit by mashing the foil against the head.
6
Tape the cut you made in the foil securely closed.
7
Punch holes in each side of the hat with a pencil, ball point pen or tip of scissors.
8
Place rope, twine, ribbon or any other string-like material through the holes and tie snugly under the chin.

Tips & Warnings

It is very important for the shiny side of the aluminum foil to be showing when the hat is complete to make sure it is effective against alien rays or mind control signals.

Slydice · 09-09-2010 10:41AM

DeVore wrote: »

Were guaranteed by the trillion euros Merkel has made available to governments. That was a clever move by a politician that has done more for us than any of her Irish counterparts. I said it would quell investor speculation and it did.

DeV.

Dev, I don't understand some of your post.

First: guaranteed by the trillion euros Merkel has made available to governments
What is this that you are talking about.
Also, how would Germany get this Trillion euros to give out (especially when it took the entire USA to muster up a Trillion for it's stimulus).
Next, Why would Germany make a Trillion Euro of it's own money available to the dodgiest countries in Europe (is it because we owe Germany so much money that our Default results in a bigger loss for them)?

Second: a clever move by a politician that has done more for us than any of her Irish counterparts
You can big up almost any politician in the world at the moment and by simply not doing anything for Ireland, they'd have done more for us than any of their Irish counterparts

Third: it would quell investor speculation and it did
What speculation are you talking about?
Are you talking about our bonds getting up to the "6" value that seems to have people flustered? I had a quick check and... it's still there at 6:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GIGB10YR:IND

Last Update: 5:38 AM ET, Sep 9
Value: 6.002
Ireland 10 Year

jackiebaron · 09-09-2010 10:49AM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

From another thread I brought you this :-

That was clever. Want me to rub your balls, hug you and tell you everything will be alright, sweetheart?

The same guy (Mike Whitney) who said the crisis was manufactured (back in 2005) has made all the same predictions that are diametrically opposed to the rosy outcomes that everyone is hoping for. I made a bit of money short selling spread bets on banking stocks and Home Depot...until the sly bastards banned the practice.
Go ahead and call people UFO/alien-abduction nutjobs if it makes you feel smug and comfy..I don't subscribe to any of that crap either but I do know that anyone who thinks this meltdown was accidental is a mug.

General Zod · 09-09-2010 10:50AM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Oh i agree those threads should be taken down but in my thread i was only giving my opinion, i didnt make up Gossip nor did i tell people withdraw money, i just gave my opinion.

and your opinion is fearmongering nonsense.

Banned Account · 09-09-2010 10:53AM

jackiebaron wrote: »

That was clever. Want me to rub your balls, hug you and tell you everything will be alright, sweetheart?

The same guy (Mike Whitney) who said the crisis was manufactured (back in 2005) has made all the same predictions that are diametrically opposed to the rosy outcomes that everyone is hoping for. I made a bit of money short selling spread bets on banking stocks and Home Depot...until the sly bastards banned the practice.
Go ahead and call people UFO/alien-abduction nutjobs if it makes you feel smug and comfy..I don't subscribe to any of that crap either but I do know that anyone who thinks this meltdown was accidental is a mug.

Do you know who Mike Whitney is?

No.

Case closed.

Thank you.

dasdog · 09-09-2010 03:32PM

"A report on economic competitiveness has placed Ireland bottom of a list of 139 countries worldwide for the state of its banks."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0909/competitiveness.html

A lot done, more to do.

Caoimhín · 09-09-2010 04:41PM

Woooooooo, we are all fúcked, time to get yourself a gun and 10 years worth of tinned beans. Woooooooooooooooh

jdooley28 · 10-09-2010 04:38AM

DeVore wrote: »

Were guaranteed by the trillion euros Merkel has made available to governments. That was a clever move by a politician that has done more for us than any of her Irish counterparts. I said it would quell investor speculation and it did.

DeV.

so the german government is guaranteeing our deposits? this makes me feel my money is safer in a german bank

bigneacy · 10-09-2010 08:28AM

jdooley28 wrote: »

so the german government is guaranteeing our deposits? this makes me feel my money is safer in a german bank

Better than an Irish bank... Seriously tho lads, some conspiracy nuts on here isn't there? I mean, my god.

I'll indulge it tho, just for the sneer.

So, tell me. What purpose does a manufactured banking crisis/financial collapse serve?

POINTBREAK · 10-09-2010 11:53AM

So, tell me. What purpose does a manufactured banking crisis/financial collapse serve?

Its an interesting question. We know that every person who wasn't betting against a collapse is a lot poorer and those that predicted it are now very rich. Money is never really lost, it just changes pockets. So what happened was all the money moved from the ordinary people to the very wealthy.
There is a case that the property collapse that caused the banking crisis was manufactured as people were encouraged to invest in property by the banks ,governments and the media. The bubble burst the same way the dot com bubble burst, and again the people who were not in the know or financially astute were the losers. It mirrors the 1929 Wall St crash.
The truth is we don't know if there was a great plan to bring down certain banks but we do know the result and we are left to wonder how the experts in Anglo etc could possibly have made so many mistakes and how we ended up paying for it.

Saila · 10-09-2010 05:52PM

"I want the truth!"

"you cant handle the truth!"

DeVore · 10-09-2010 06:26PM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

You can see for yourself on this forum that the government has told boards.ie to sticky a banking thread saying there is nothing to worry about, when in fact the guarantee on customer deposits isnt worth the paper its written on, there dont have the money to back it up.

Wow.

Seriously, wow.

Dude, if Brian Cowen came to me and said he wanted me to sticky a thread on Boards about the banks, man I would be SOOOO all over politics spilling the beans about it and what was said and what happened. Hahahah.

I suppose I was told to say that too.

Wow.

I'd better put pants on in case Obama skypes me.

DeV.

DeVore · 10-09-2010 06:39PM

So we appear to have survived the week without a bank going out of business.

Look, I'm not stating that everything is rosy, things are far from rosy, but panicing people who dont know whats going on with talk of extracting their cash and buying baked beans seems... hasty

Merkel orchestrated for Europe to make 1 Trillion euros available to governments if the bond markets wouldnt buy their bonds. It was back at the time of the Greece incident and I said at the time it would scare the predators in the water and so far it seems to have done so. We havent had any news stories about those evil free market traders (from the people who push capitalism as their base, it does seem like buying a dog and then smacking it for barking).

Ireland could default, of course it *could* but much like Greece, it wont be *allowed to*. The entire Eurozone is built on "all for one" and its being tested like no tomorrow but there is too much riding on it and we are too far down the line of that project to allow Ireland to trash it. So, funding will be made available and accomodation made for us. Dont think that means free money, we'd like be savaged in the process, it wouldnt be pleasant. Thats my 2c.

I'll phone Gordon and see what he wants me to say

DeV.

Caoimhín · 10-09-2010 08:24PM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

You can see for yourself on this forum that the government has told boards.ie to sticky a banking thread saying there is nothing to worry about, when in fact the guarantee on customer deposits isnt worth the paper its written on, there dont have the money to back it up.

http://allpsych.com/disorders/psychotic/delusionaldisorder.html

DeVore · 10-09-2010 09:27PM

The funny thing about saying "the guarantees arent worth the paper they're written on" is that MONEY isnt worth the paper its written on. The entire idea of currency is based on willing, group-level trust based on nothing in particular. It used to be made out of gold, which was at least worth the amount of the coin, then it was based on the Gold Standard which has since gone bye bye and now its digital so its not even a physical object most of the time, but we collectively agree to pretend we dont know this.

If you really want to see the financial system consuming its young in an effort to stay alive.... google PetroDollar Recycling and try to avoid the loonie CS sites, its a genuine phenomenon, has been since the 70s.

DeV.

Wibbs · 10-09-2010 09:35PM

DeVore wrote: »

I'd better put pants on in case Obama skypes me.

Ze goggles zey do nothing. :eek::D

Yes we're kinda fooked financially. A lot of really bad decisions have been made in the last decade(and IMHO also they should have let anglo die), but like has been said the whole of the EU can't afford to lose us. It would be far more expensive to do so.

Caoimhín · 10-09-2010 09:50PM

The more pressing issue right now is who is going to the shop for more beers and smokes.

I sent the dog off with a tenner about an hour ago but i think he went in for a few pints...

DeVore · 11-09-2010 03:35AM

Your dog invested in bonds, spun it up to a mid sized financial services company, bankrupted Lithuania and was subsequently put down for treason.

Sowwie.

DeV.

bigneacy · 11-09-2010 02:24PM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

You can see for yourself on this forum that the government has told boards.ie to sticky a banking thread saying there is nothing to worry about, when in fact the guarantee on customer deposits isnt worth the paper its written on, there dont have the money to back it up.

lay off the weed, man.... seriously...

the_dark_side · 11-09-2010 07:23PM

DeVore wrote: »

Wow.

Seriously, wow.

Dude, if Brian Cowen came to me and said he wanted me to sticky a thread on Boards about the banks, man I would be SOOOO all over politics spilling the beans about it and what was said and what happened. Hahahah.

I suppose I was told to say that too.

Wow.

I'd better put pants on in case Obama skypes me.

DeV.

I agree... it sounds like a crazy conspiracy... but when you consider that Brian Lenihan rang the Joe Duffy show (while off air), and warned of the dangers associated with talking down the country's banks on air, and requested that such discourse be cut from further broadcasts, nothing would be too surprising at this stage... (I dont suspect the Taoiseach has done that here though)

digme · 12-09-2010 05:56PM

This thread makes me want to puke.How you can suggest that people to keep their money in the banks is beyond retarded.

andrew · 12-09-2010 09:33PM

digme wrote: »

This thread makes me want to puke.How you can suggest that people to keep their money in the banks is beyond retarded.

No, taking your money out of the bank because you think that if you don't you'll lose it all, that's retarded.

digme · 12-09-2010 11:35PM

andrew wrote: »

No, taking your money out of the bank because you think that if you don't you'll lose it all, that's retarded.

How would you feel if i took 20% of your weeks wages every week for the next 50 odd years? Would you save in my bank? Course you would,isn't that right? .... retarded

bigneacy · 13-09-2010 07:49AM

digme wrote: »

This thread makes me want to puke.How you can suggest that people to keep their money in the banks is beyond retarded.

I can't help but thinking this person probably pronouced "retarded" the same as Alan from The Hangover....

He just strikes me as a similar person to him.... Ya know, incredibly dense, thinks everything is a conspiracy.

patmac · 13-09-2010 11:31AM

With thanks to Brendan in askaboutmoney.com
more here http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=121668

A simple guide to NAMA and the banking crisis
This post is aimed at people who don’t have the time or the inclination to study NAMA in detail but who do want to understand the basics of the present crisis. You should get a grasp of the issues by reading the first post. You can go into further detail by reading later posts or following the links.

We are in a mess. There is no easy solution. Whatever approach we take will put the taxpayer and the country at huge risk. If someone tells you that the solution is simple and risk-free, don’t listen to them. Every proposal has its advantages and disadvantages. They have to be analysed and teased out.

We are in a mess and we have to find a way out. We might be angry at the government, the banks, the regulators, the property developers and at ourselves. But we can’t let that anger prevent us from finding a solution.

We might resent having to bail out the depositors, the bankers and the property developers, but if we decide that we need to do this to get the economy working again, we will have to do it.

The problems
Irish banks have lent €90 billion to property developers and investors. Around 50% of these loans are in serious arrears and are unlikely to be repaid in full.

If the government did nothing, the banks would have collapsed -

ordinary savers would have lost their deposits
the payments system would have collapsed and the economy
would have ground to a halt
confidence in the government would have collapsed and the
government would have been unable to pay for the running of
the country – schools, hospitals, pensions & social welfare

Even if the banks had managed to survive without government support, they would take years to recover and would not lend to Irish businesses and home buyers, so the economy would take years to recover. This is what is meant by “zombie banks”.

The solution
The government has guaranteed the deposits for everyone up to September 2010
The government has invested €10 billion (?)share capital in the banks.
The government, through NAMA, is proposing to buy the bad loans from the banks.

If this works, the banks will have enough capital to start lending again. This does not mean that they will start lending again soon, but they certainly won’t lend again if they do not have enough capital.

But this is a huge risk to the taxpayer
It looks as if the government will be forced to pay more than the loans are worth. Instead of the banks and their shareholders losing money on these loans, the taxpayer will pay for the losses. Of course the banks and their shareholders have taken huge losses so far.

It looks like we will pay around €60 billion for the loans. The government says that this is a fair price, but no one can know the true value.

We can reduce the risk to the taxpayer by nationalising the banks
If the government nationalises the banks, then it does not matter if we pay too much for the loans. Any overpayment will be reflected in the value of the banks when the government eventually sells them off.

But nationalising the banks is risky as well…
It is argued that if we nationalise the banks, the international community will stop lending money to the Irish banks and, possibly, to the Irish government. Even if they don’t stop lending to us, they will push up the price we pay for these loans.

This point is hotly disputed.

Can we reduce the risk to the taxpayer without nationalising the banks?
Yes, instead of paying €60 billion for the loans, we can pay them €50 billion now and hold the balance of €10 billion until we see how NAMA works out. This approach does have its downsides in that it does not remove most of the risk from the banks.

Banking scare threads and the truth.

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