Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

A question on the lovely Gineadach

  • 09-09-2010 01:00PM
    #1
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Something I've wondered for a long time.

    Are there times when a word or two comes after the gineadach that sort of cancels out the gineadach?

    For example - around the school = timpeall na scoile
    Around the whole school = timpeall na scoile/an scoil ar fad ??

    Also - despite the work = in ainneoin na hoibre
    despite all this work = in ainneoin na hoibre/an obair seo go léir??

    Anyone with any light to shine on this?
    GRMA!


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭Gael


    Yes, there are a number of situations where the genitive does not occur due to the noun being qualified by something following it, usually a adjective. But it generally only happens if there is no definite article involved. This usually occurs after ag + verbal noun or after a compound preposition like le haghaidh, os comhair, de bharr etc.

    ag déanamh oibre (standard genitive)
    ag déanamh obair mhaith (combination of noun + adjective + no definite article means no genitive following 'ag déanamh')

    BUT

    Ag déanamh na hoibre maithe (presence of definite article means genitive occurs anyway)

    Another example with a compound preposition would be:

    ar feadh lá fada

    BUT

    ar feadh an lae fhada



    It's usually the case also that verbal nouns will not go into the genitive when part of the above mentioned contructions. For example:

    Ag déanamh athrú (rather than the genitive form athraithe)

    Ag pleanáil scaipeadh (instead of the genitive, which is scaipthe)

    You can read more about this on pages 94 and 95 (Points 3,4 and 5) in the Caighdeán Oifigiúil.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Krusader


    Is this changing with the new recommendations for the CO


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭Gael


    I don't know, but I don't think so. It's not a particularly controversial or contentious point of grammar as far as I know and is a natural element of the spoken language. Though I'm open to correction on that.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    Thanks for that! I'll have to dig out this caighdeán and read it before bed.


Advertisement
Advertisement