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Government decides to split Anglo in two...

  • 08-09-2010 02:29PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭


    Will it solve the problem???


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    MrDarcy wrote: »
    Will it solve the problem???

    Does it even remotely change the massive level of debt that THEY incurred and that WE have to pay back ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭MrDarcy


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Does it even remotely change the massive level of debt that THEY incurred and that WE have to pay back ?

    It looks like a window dressing scheme to me, it fails to answer the only real question that the markets and the rest of us for that matter are really interested in, which is at what point does taxpayers money stop being made available to toxic debt that is associated with Anglo???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 585 ✭✭✭MrDarcy


    This was only done for one reason, which was to try to give the markets something for this week to get the bond interest rate back down below 6%. Does it do anything at all to deal with the problem, I doubt it very much... More of the same, "we will tell you in October what it is going to cost"... How long is a piece of string???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    Whats the point? The problem is still the same. HOW MUCH?:mad:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    The "plan" - if it doesn't stretch the imagination too much to call it that - was torn apart on The Last Word by none other than Shane "I got two fingers from Anglo's turncoat so-called public interest representative" Ross.

    Apparently the "good" half of Anglo (an oxymoron if I've ever heard of one, since none of Anglo is good, and "half" isn't even remotely accurate - more like 1% might be realistic after NAMA etc) is going to be a bank that takes deposits and doesn't give out loans.

    Since deposits require banks to pay out interest, which is usually paid out of income / interest from loans that they give out, where the f**k is Anglo going to get the money for the interest ?

    Trust FF to turn even a "good bank" concept into a liability.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭waffleman


    Are we really surprised?

    Lenny has had zero credibility for a while now - he's not even worth listenin to at this stage - would only make you despair

    His tag line should be "bluff now, pay later, isn't nepotism great"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    waffleman wrote: »
    Are we really surprised?

    Lenny has had zero credibility for a while now - he's not even worth listenin to at this stage - would only make you despair

    His tag line should be "bluff now, pay later, isn't nepotism great"


    agreed , he said on free fall on rte monday that he talked to french minster in ''french'' ,{what the fju@} reminded me of when his beloved aunt mary o rourke came on radio and said she was in the ''bath ''when some politician said something !

    any wonder the markets are spooked .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Deck chairs and the Titanic, spring to mind.

    This new idea to restructure what was Anglo Irish Bank, gets us no nearer to the issues which need to be answered.

    1.How much will the bailout of Anglo cost?
    2.What is the timeline for this new structure?

    I heard the FF PR guy Micheal Whelan speaking on DriveTime today and he said that we just have to work through the issues in respect of Anglo.

    We're 23 months in to this mess, Michael.
    How much time does it take, FFS?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    With regard to the thread title I assume that its Europe that has decided this rather than the government?

    I heard some analyst (cant remember name) saying Europe were getting a bit fed up of the governments lack of conviction on Anglo.

    Would that be accurate?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭Orchard Rebel


    SeaFields wrote: »
    With regard to the thread title I assume that its Europe that has decided this rather than the government?

    I heard some analyst (cant remember name) saying Europe were getting a bit fed up of the governments lack of conviction on Anglo.

    Would that be accurate?

    Lack of conviction or lack of convictions? :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭talla10


    Won't solve anything imo. This is another example of government not listening to the people every person in this country (who doesnt work in anglo) wanted in shut down even the poxy green party favoured this and so did a lot of respected analysts across europe but no Fianna Fail have to look after their friends and to hell with the country. In 2 yrs Prime Time will have a show looking back to the today when the government made a balls of it again. Are we surprised??sadly no...(rant over)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 785 ✭✭✭zootroid


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    The "plan" - if it doesn't stretch the imagination too much to call it that - was torn apart on The Last Word by none other than Shane "I got two fingers from Anglo's turncoat so-called public interest representative" Ross.

    Apparently the "good" half of Anglo (an oxymoron if I've ever heard of one, since none of Anglo is good, and "half" isn't even remotely accurate - more like 1% might be realistic after NAMA etc) is going to be a bank that takes deposits and doesn't give out loans.

    Since deposits require banks to pay out interest, which is usually paid out of income / interest from loans that they give out, where the f**k is Anglo going to get the money for the interest ?

    Trust FF to turn even a "good bank" concept into a liability.

    Exactly what I was thinking. How can a bank make money if it can't lend money?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭Byron85


    Just read it on the RTE website.
    The Government has decided that Anglo Irish Bank will be split into a Funding Bank and an Asset Recovery Bank.

    In a statement, the Government rejected Anglo Irish Bank management's plan to split the bank into a good bank and bad bank, but decided on a variation of that proposal.
    Meanwhile, Taoiseach Brian Cowen has said the final bill for Anglo Irish Bank should be known by the end of October after detailed work by the Financial Regulator Matthew Elderfield.
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    Speaking on RTÉ's Six One News, Mr Cowen said the Government was anxious to bring finality to this matter and described today's announcement as a 'strategic decision'.
    He said he would not be drawn on the overall cost which management at the bank has estimated will cost €25bn. Asked could the final figure be as much as €35bn, Mr Cowen said he would not get into that as it was not helpful.

    Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan said the Government's announcement that Anglo Irish Bank will be split into two will provide certainty about the bank's future.
    Minister Lenihan said a resolution of what he called 'our most distressed institution' was essential to the promotion of confidence and stability in the Irish financial system.
    Current depositors will become customers of the funding bank, which will continue as a regulated bank. It will also be able to take new deposits, but will not be giving out any loans.
    The asset recovery bank will eventually be sold or partly sold or its assets will be run off over a period of time.
    The Government says the guaranteed position of depositors will be unchanged by the new arrangements and no action is required of them as a result of today's announcement.
    The depositors will become customers of the funding bank which will be fully capitalised and continue as a regulated bank.
    'In order to restore the reputation of the Irish Financial System it is essential to bring finality to the problem of Anglo Irish Bank - our most distressed institution', a Department of Finance statement said.
    Anglo Irish Bank said it welcomed the certainty brought by today's decision. The bank pledged to implement the new plan, saying it would work closely with the Government and other State agencies to deliver the detailed proposals to the European Commission.
    It said the funding bank 'would focus on maintaining a viable funding base in support of the recovery bank's needs'.
    Chairman of the board of Anglo Irish Bank Alan Dukes said the plan put forward by the Government was a variant of the plans put forward by the bank.
    He said the savings aspect of the Government plan was much more limited than the one the bank was proposing.
    Asked if it would be more expensive than the €25bn estimated by the bank, Mr Dukes said this would depend on the view NAMA took with the discounts.
    Asked if the plan was a winding-down of Anglo over ten to 15 years, he said it was a working out of the loan book.

    'No certainty in plan'
    Reacting to the decision, Fine Gael Finance Spokesman Michael Noonan said there was no certainty in the plan for Anglo Irish Bank announced by the Government.
    He said what the markets needed was certainty and under the plan, we still do not know what the overall cost to the Irish taxpayer would be or how much more would be added on to the national debt.
    Speaking on the Six One News, Mr Noonan said under the plan, neither of the two entities are going to lend.
    He said the plan would now be submitted to Brussels but would not be sanctioned until 2011, which he said was too late.
    The European Commission has said it welcomes the proposal, but it said further clarifications were needed before a final decision could be taken.
    In a statement, EU competition commissioner Joaquin Almunia noted that the Commission had already authorised some €25bn in State recapitalisations 'which obviously creates distortions of competition'.
    The Commissioner also said he was aware of the situation of the Irish financial sector and understood it was necessary to continue, for the time being, with government guarantees also for short-term bank liabilities.
    Elsewhere, Fitch Ratings Senior Analyst Chris Pryce said he did not think it would make much difference because it had been broadly anticipated by the markets.
    However he said the move would bring us a little closer to getting some sort of certainty over the future of Anglo Irish Bank.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0908/anglo.html

    Now, the question is will this actually work in any way, shape or form. All I can think of is the hydra from Greek mythology.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    It's all just more political maneuvering to look like they're doing something when they're really not doing a damn thing. The bank should be bulldozed and the crooks involved split in two.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    Lack of conviction or lack of convictions? :D

    Well played Sir, well played :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    How exactly does this differ from the good bank/bad bank strategy that they were proposing( even though both would be crap anyway )?

    I listened to The Last Word but they never really covered what was different, it still seems the same, except for the idiotic no loans for the good bank, is it going to be an investment bank also? lol

    Ignoring idiots who comment "far right" because they don't even know what it means



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Lenny Lovett


    Speaking on RTÉ's Six One News, Mr Cowen said the Government was anxious to bring finality to this matter and described today's announcement as a 'strategic decision'.
    These clowns wouldn't know a strategic decision if it kicked them up the asre. What posible strategy could they be following?
    He said he would not be drawn on the overall cost which management at the bank has estimated will cost €25bn. Asked could the final figure be as much as €35bn, Mr Cowen said he would not get into that as it was not helpful.
    €25bn, €35bn.... what's the difference at this stage. If they'd never guaranteed the feckin bank in the first place it could have been let go tits up as it should have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Vinegar Hill


    SeaFields wrote: »
    With regard to the thread title I assume that its Europe that has decided this rather than the government?

    I heard some analyst (cant remember name) saying Europe were getting a bit fed up of the governments lack of conviction on Anglo.

    Would that be accurate?

    I do not remember the Dáil being called today to debate this "Proposition" never mind vote on it. Where is the opposition and their opinions on this matter?

    Europe has NOT approved this and in fact stated they do not support Anglo being split into a Good Bank and a Bad Bank.
    The Government's plan to split Anglo Irish in to a "good bank - bad bank" has been rejected by the EU Commission in favour of an orderly wind down, according to Labour MEP Alan Kelly.

    http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=2658439;s=rollingnews.htm
    Commission Vice President and Competition Commissioner Joaquin Almunia today said he needs clarifications and requires and new notification before he is in a position to finalise its assessment and to take a decision.

    http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=2658517;s=rollingnews.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,377 ✭✭✭GSF


    So why would anyone put deposits in "good" Anglo? Presumably it would have to pay higher rates of interest than competing banks. So by not lending anything out it wil suck yet more liquidity out of the Irish economy. Pure madness.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    How will the good bank pay out interest? No loans? I dont know much but where will they get the money?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Lenny Lovett


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    How will the good bank pay out interest? No loans? I dont know much but where will they get the money?
    You must've missed that bit on the News. We (the taxpayer) are going to chuck another few billion in to the "good" bank.... You couldn't make it up!:mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    GSF wrote: »
    So by not lending anything out it wil suck yet more liquidity out of the Irish economy. Pure madness.
    And even better, it won't be doing any lending so no liquidity is being returned like in a normal bank.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 408 ✭✭blue_steel


    danbohan wrote: »
    agreed , he said on free fall on rte monday that he talked to french minster in ''french''

    Yeah I love how he stuck that in! What a peculiar mix of hubris and insecurity we have running this country. To paraphrase Bart Simpson "Nobody who speaks French could be a bad man."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    The're hoping we the sheeple will confuse motion with action.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭the_dark_side


    split Anglo in two halfs and multiply them together - x - = + :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭Callan57


    Michael Noonan on the NEWS looked like he was squaring up to kick ten shades of sh**e out of Anglo


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Callan57 wrote: »
    Michael Noonan on the NEWS looked like he was squaring up to kick ten shades of sh**e out of Anglo

    Unfortunately Noonan was leader of FG at the worst time possible - when the country (or 40% of it anyway) was in love with 'de man of de peeple'.

    He is a good speaker and a much better politician, and more convincing, than Kenny.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    So the FF plan is essentially:

    1. Split Anglo into 2 Banks
    2. ??????????
    3. Profit!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭thebaldsoprano


    Can anyone explain what this means exactly?

    The only detail I picked up is that they definitely won't be allowed to lend again, which is probably a good thing! After that, the legal entity that was a black hole for taxpayers' money is now two legal entities. Does that make any difference all?


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