How do you become emotionless so things dont affect you?

cat_dog · 31-07-2010 11:40PM #1

Is Stoicism possible?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

Joe1919 · 01-08-2010 12:14AM

By dying.......

Anyhow, it was claimed that the Stoic sage could achieve this and stay alive (but there were very few stoic sages).

But of course this total freedom from pain and emotion was the ideal. But many do claim that Stoicism can help in many cases and can be an effective form of psychotherapy.

If you're interested in Stoicism, I would recommend this very readable book.
http://books.google.ie/books?id=yQ59JV_9AfIC

There is also a Facebook page.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204659768&v=app_2373072738

This guy below recommends the use of caution with Stoic techniques for mental illness. However, most use of Stoicism is just to enhance ones own life.
http://hdl.handle.net/1842/2435 or http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/1842/2435/6/Collins%20AJ%20Dissertation%2008.pdf

roosh · 06-08-2010 07:48PM

much of eastern philosophy and practice is concerned with, not so much becoming emotionless, but becoming detached from our emotions, and so not getting swept along with them, thereby allowing us to exercise clearer judgement.

Meditation practice helps to cultivate this state of mind.

Joe1919 · 07-08-2010 12:07PM

Below are two good links on Stoic ( and other) meditation practises.

www.btinternet.com/~k.h.s/StoicSpiritualexercices2010.pdf

http://books.google.ie/books?id=RNDmvMrpr4YC&printsec=frontcover&dq=philosophy+as+a+way+of+life+pierre+hadot&hl=en&ei=XUhdTJioKcuOsAaFrqzABw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

looksee · 09-08-2010 07:38AM

But if you become unemotional you also lose the capacity to appreciate beauty, to feel empathy, to desire justice and to enjoy living.

Joe1919 · 09-08-2010 10:19AM

looksee wrote: »

But if you become unemotional you also lose the capacity to appreciate beauty, to feel empathy, to desire justice and to enjoy living.

Stoicism was an adaptable doctrine and changed and evolved over its lifetime. Its doctrines were not absolute (unlike Christianity) and showed some variation.

You cannot really fully get rid of emotions but the stoic does argue against their use in judgement, whereas Aristotle argued for moderation of the emotions. Hence, there was some variation as to how far one should go in not showing emotion. For example, it was thought that it was appropriate to show grief at a funeral, although the stoic would be less inclined to feel grief because he accepted death as part of nature and tried not to be affected by those things that were outside his control.

The Stoic would also argue that emotions have no place in judgements concerning beauty, our desires and justice. Rationality comes first and one should always act and make judgements in according to reason.

Hence, for example, when it comes to justice, it could be argued that a stoic would make a good judge because he will not be blinded by emotions like anger, pity etc. but will stick to the facts. (not everyone agrees)

David Matthew · 05-09-2010 05:33PM

cat_dog wrote: »

Is Stoicism possible?

Emotion is a definitive component of human nature; I would say the challenge lies in enduring and withstanding emotional extremes, rather than deadening the presence of emotion within us.

The ideal of the 'Rational Man' ought to be he who conquers, rather than kills, emotion.

Think of a time when somebody has done/said something to infuriate you, to rise you to anger; like a wave about to break, you feel that anger wanting to rush out of you as if it were something inevitable. You only have a very short time to keep it in check before it breaks. Now, the difference here between 'bottling it' and 'transcending it' can be difficult to convey, but the difference is enormous. The latter involves allowing the emotion to be fully felt; to look at it straight in the face, and do what feels most unnatural: watch it without identifying with it, and let it run its course within, without it determining your reaction. However, the anger will still tell the stoic something; he will learn from it, and perhaps even take it into consideration when deciding upon his subsequent action.

The Bottler, on the other hand, will suppress the anger before it can be properly felt and acknowledged, usually because it is something too unpleasant to deal with. The result of this might be, say, that the very same anger erupts on a later occasion (for no apparent reason), or the anger might manifest in another way, in the form of a physical illness for example.

I think people are still inclined to confuse the notion of The Stoic with The Bottler. No doubt the latter is a far more common phenomenon.

Joe1919 · 05-09-2010 06:30PM

David Matthew wrote: »

....The Bottler, on the other hand, will suppress the anger before it can be properly felt and acknowledged, usually because it is something too unpleasant to deal with. The result of this might be, say, that the very same anger erupts on a later occasion (for no apparent reason), or the anger might manifest in another way, in the form of a physical illness for example.

I think people are still inclined to confuse the notion of The Stoic with The Bottler. No doubt the latter is a far more common phenomenon.

You make a very good point about the 'Bottler'. The ancient Greeks had this idea they called 'Catharsis' which they saw as a 'flushing out' of the emotions and they used this to show the value of stage comedy and tragedy. Hence it was good to laugh or cry or even thump some inaminate object when angry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis

af_thefragile · 08-09-2010 03:56PM

There is the concept of giving up desires to be free.
You are not free till you are bound by your desires.

And it depends on what kind of emotions you let go.

There are emotions that bring you down like anger, grievance, jealousy, greed etc.
And they are usually connected to the material world. You feel anger when someone destroys or takes away something that belongs to you, you feel sad when you lose something, you feel jealous when you don't have something someone else has and such.

Then there are emotions that raise you like love, empathy, generosity, courage etc.
These are usually disconnected from the material world. Love is a divine feeling, to be generous you must give up something you have, to be courageous you must overcome your selfish fears and such.

The more you hold onto the emotions that bring you down, the less free you are. Being angry, sad or jealous is not a pleasant feeling to have and greedy people never feel satisfied. You can't consider yourself free when you are bound by these emotional factors.

On the other hand the stronger the emotions that raise you get, the more liberated you feel. Loving someone is a great feeling, being generous makes you feel good as well, courage sets you free of your fears and inhibitions and these things will make you contempt and satisfied with what you have (or don't have). This is when you feel you are free.

I can't say if stoicism is possible. If you completely cut off your emotions then you have killed your heart and soul and in essence you have destroyed the very essence of what makes you human. This is not what a sage would do.
A sage would give up the worldly/material desires (the lowering emotions) and so anything that would happen to him in the material world wouldn't effect him. But then you need to have faith in the spiritual world to do such a thing. And so without spirituality reaching such a stage wouldn't be possible.

Joe1919 · 09-09-2010 12:57AM

Here's a good discussion re 'Eradication of Emotion' that discusses the questions you raise. http://www.giffordlectures.org/Browse.asp?PubID=TPEMPM&Volume=0&Issue=0&ArticleID=15

The point I would put forward is that the idea of 'Eradication of Emotion' like the Buddhist idea of non-attachment is probably impossible to attain fully but it does result in the possibility of moderation of the emotions, which is what Aristotle always claimed was the way to go.
http://www.giffordlectures.org/Browse.asp?PubID=TPEMPM&Volume=0&Issue=0&ArticleID=16

Nolanger · 10-09-2010 09:32PM

mangaroosh wrote: »

becoming detached from our emotions, and so not getting swept along with them, thereby allowing us to exercise clearer judgement.

Meditation practice helps to cultivate this state of mind.

Or you could listen to Gary Numan's Replicas album

How do you become emotionless so things dont affect you?

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