Anti-Semitism - what exactly is it?

Seesee · 03-09-2010 05:37PM #1

How would you define anti-Semitism? I read in today's IT that the EU Trade chief was accused of making anti-Semitic (?) remarks: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0903/breaking52.html
But from my reading he's just saying that there is a large and powerful Jewish group in US politics that should not be underestimated. If you substituted the word Irish for the word Jewish, would this make it an anti-Irish comment? I don't think so but I'm wondering what others think. Does this guy De Gucht have previous?
Seesee

LookBehindYou · 03-09-2010 05:48PM

It proves his point that there is a powerful jewish group.

Gone are the days when Black was black and white was white.

Rebelheart · 03-09-2010 05:49PM

Seesee wrote: »

Anti-Semitism - what exactly is it?

Anything which is used in a criticism of the Israeli state?

....

Revolution9 · 03-09-2010 05:54PM

Prejudice against Das Juden?

Permabear · 03-09-2010 05:54PM

This post has been deleted.

joolsveer · 03-09-2010 05:57PM

It is a prejudice against Arabs and Hebrews no matter what their religion is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic
This seems to include the Maltese.

In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others.

As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution.

paky · 04-09-2010 04:21PM

its the hatred of the jews and their ideology

go to israel and spend some time there and then you will see why anti semitism is so strong.

timespast · 04-09-2010 05:15PM

Anti semitic = anti Jewish

Anti Zionist is another thing altogether.......Ive mentioned to Americans I'd class myself as Anti Zionist and they are horrified quite often.

The idea of a Jewish homeland is as ridiculous as a Unionist homeland in the North....... ok I wont go there.

OhNoYouDidn't · 04-09-2010 05:17PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I slightly disagree. Traditional anti-semitism is different from racism or sexism in the sense that they are a belief in the inferiority of the other sex or different races, yet anti-semitism has always been that the Jews were more devious, ran the banks etc. Its a belief that they as a race are manipulating and run the world behind the scenes.

I would agree that while Mr De Gucht's comments were crude and unhelpful, they aren't anti-semetic in any real sense.

Glassheart · 04-09-2010 07:32PM

paky wrote: »

its the hatred of the jews and their ideology

go to israel and spend some time there and then you will see why anti semitism is so strong.

Thats harsh.
Anti Semitism has been around a lot longer than Israel.Do think it was justified before 1948?

Nodin · 04-09-2010 08:43PM

paky wrote: »

its the hatred of the jews and their ideology

I wasn't aware that "the jews" subscribed to a single set of beliefs. Would you care to enlighten us?

paky · 04-09-2010 08:49PM

Glassheart wrote: »

Thats harsh.
Anti Semitism has been around a lot longer than Israel.Do think it was justified before 1948?

to be honest its not. no other religion has received the level of persecution the jews have. the jews themselves have created that hate. there religion/ideology is warped. they see themselves as superior to other people and religions.

dont get me wrong, i have jewish friends but there is something seriously wrong with how they are perceived by the rest of the world and they themselves are to blame for it.

galwayrush · 04-09-2010 09:12PM

paky wrote: »

to be honest its not. no other religion has received the level of persecution the jews have. the jews themselves have created that hate. there religion/ideology is warped. they see themselves as superior to other people and religions.

dont get me wrong, i have jewish friends but there is something seriously wrong with how they are perceived by the rest of the world and they themselves are to blame for it.

Sounds like every other religion to me.:rolleyes:

Nodin · 04-09-2010 09:12PM

paky wrote: »

to be honest its not. no other religion has received the level of persecution the jews have. the jews themselves have created that hate. there religion/ideology is warped. .

I think thats the kind of thing the OP was asking about.

How is their "religion/Ideology" warped, exactly?

Do all jews automatically sign up to whatever it is?

paky wrote: »

they see themselves as superior to other people and religions..

All of them do?

paky wrote: »

dont get me wrong, i have jewish friends
..

O Absolutely, yeah...

paky wrote: »

but there is something seriously wrong with how they are perceived by the rest of the world and they themselves are to blame for it.

...fascinating.

Jeboa Safari · 04-09-2010 09:15PM

I wouldn't consider them comments anti-semitic

Glassheart · 04-09-2010 09:57PM

paky wrote: »

to be honest its not. no other religion has received the level of persecution the jews have. the jews themselves have created that hate.

:eek:

paky wrote: »

there religion/ideology is warped. they see themselves as superior to other people and religions.

That sounds awfully familiar to be honest...

paky wrote: »

dont get me wrong, i have jewish friends...

I find this strange considering your position.Are they Irish or Israeli Jews?

paky wrote: »

but there is something seriously wrong with how they are perceived by the rest of the world and they themselves are to blame for it

Pure b0llocks.I can understand someones frustration with the Israelis but this rabid antisemitism has been around for thousands of years fuelled by ludicrous propaganda such as the Protocols of Zion.How are they to blame for that kind of nonsense?

death wish · 04-09-2010 10:03PM

Glassheart wrote: »

:eek:

That sounds awfully familiar to be honest...

I find this strange considering your position.Are they Irish or Israeli Jews?

Pure b0llocks.I can understand someones frustration with the Israelis but this rabid antisemitism has been around for thousands of years fuelled by ludicrous propaganda such as the Protocols of Zion.How are they to blame for that kind of nonsense?

some stereotypes are their for a reason though.

for instance irish people dont have a drinking problem but outsiders would think we do.

if you were an outsider amongst the jews you would think they hada serious problem with money, power and morals.

Glassheart · 04-09-2010 10:27PM

death wish wrote: »

some stereotypes are their for a reason though.

for instance irish people dont have a drinking problem but outsiders would think we do.

I wasn't talking talking about stereotypes.I was talking about malicious propaganda.
Hitler didn't achieve his goals by convincing his flock that Jewish people had big noses.

Brussels Sprout · 04-09-2010 11:54PM

death wish wrote: »

some stereotypes are their for a reason though.

for instance irish people dont have a drinking problem but outsiders would think we do.

I would say Irish people have a massive drinking problem.

Glassheart wrote: »

I wasn't talking talking about stereotypes.I was talking about malicious propaganda.
Hitler didn't achieve his goals by convincing his flock that Jewish people had big noses.

I'm fairly sure he used lots of stereotypes to portray the Jews negatively (along with malicious propganda).

fontanalis · 05-09-2010 12:54AM

Didn't a lot of the hostility to Jews originate with the fact that centuries ago they were money lenders due to usury being against christian doctrine at the time? Then there's the whole crucifiction.
I have to say though, some of the attitudes towards Jews on here are Paisleyesque to say the least.

johnnyskeleton · 05-09-2010 02:00AM

fontanalis wrote: »

Didn't a lot of the hostility to Jews originate with the fact that centuries ago they were money lenders due to usury being against christian doctrine at the time? Then there's the whole crucifiction.
I have to say though, some of the attitudes towards Jews on here are Paisleyesque to say the least.

All prejudices are based on a fairly basic human instinct to group people into "us" and "them". It doesn't really matter how you define "us" or "them", just so long as there are sufficient distinctions to cause war.

This illusory defining of people as different is the subject of much satire. In Red Dwarf, the cat people died in a religious war over whether Lister's hot dog stand in Figi would be blue or red (or some other irrelevant distinction).

I don't think there was ever any reason why anti-semitism or anti-judean views sprung up in europe. It was enough that they were sufficiently identifiable as "non-christian" for the catholic church to brand them as "them" and therefore the enemy.

demonspawn · 05-09-2010 05:50AM

Just got this video from my subs on Youtube. Maybe it will stoke up some debate on the issue. Personally, I think some Jews, and others, are too quick to use the anti-Semitic card to deflect criticism of Israel.

Oh, and sub to TRNN. It's a pretty good source of news and commentary that you won't see anywhere else and Paul Jay is a pretty damn good journalist if you ask me.

JustinDee · 05-09-2010 10:38AM

paky wrote: »

the jews themselves have created that hate. there religion/ideology is warped. they see themselves as superior to other people and religions

paky wrote: »

but there is something seriously wrong with how they are perceived by the rest of the world and they themselves are to blame for it

Astounding that this level of ill-informed delusion still exists in these allegedly 'enlightened' times.

paky wrote: »

dont get me wrong, i have jewish friends . . .

I'd call bullsh on this.

JustinDee · 05-09-2010 10:40AM

death wish wrote: »

if you were an outsider amongst the jews you would think they hada serious problem with money, power and morals.

*shakes head*
Flip's sake . . .

Nodin · 05-09-2010 10:41AM

death wish wrote: »

if you were an outsider amongst the jews you would think they hada serious problem with money, power and morals.

They're all the same then?

Clawdeeus · 05-09-2010 10:57AM

joolsveer wrote: »

It is a prejudice against Arabs and Hebrews no matter what their religion is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic
This seems to include the Maltese.

There are many semetic people - but anti-semitisim applies exclusively to hatred of Jews in moderen parlance. People usually say anti-arab or some such when refering to other semetic groups.

I dont really get when people say "Im not anti-semetic, im anti-Zionist" (Im dont mind the Jews, but dont think they should have a country of their own). most people who say this are more anti-Israel (or at least Israels foreign policy) which is fair enough, and different from anti-zionism, at least from my understanding.

Glassheart · 05-09-2010 02:09PM

death wish wrote: »

if you were an outsider amongst the jews you would think they hada serious problem with money, power and morals.

Are you an outsider amongst them?

Widely speaking they are a well educated & intelligent bunch so naturally they would aspire to well paid jobs and positions of 'power'.

What problem with morals?

OhNoYouDidn't · 05-09-2010 10:20PM

fontanalis wrote: »

Didn't a lot of the hostility to Jews originate with the fact that centuries ago they were money lenders due to usury being against christian doctrine at the time? Then there's the whole crucifiction.
I have to say though, some of the attitudes towards Jews on here are Paisleyesque to say the least.

Jews traditionally didn't mix with the rest of a population as well as other groups did because in a large part their Kosher diet made it difficult to socially interact. As many Jews prospered in their chosen trades, and ursury was one, people pointed jealously to this and decided that their neighbours were up to something, and the constructs that they were sneaky, ran the world etc grew out of straight forward begrudgery.

The cruxifiction angle is Anti-Jewish as opposed to anti-Semetic, a subtle, but important distinction.

OhNoYouDidn't · 05-09-2010 10:22PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I don't think there was ever any reason why anti-semitism or anti-judean views sprung up in europe. It was enough that they were sufficiently identifiable as "non-christian" for the catholic church to brand them as "them" and therefore the enemy.

Thats anti-Jewish sentiment. "They killed Jesus".

Anto-semitism is more "those sneaky Jews run the worlds banking system and are responsible for destroying the German economy out of spite"

Overheal · 05-09-2010 10:24PM

I'll tell you whats Antisemetic: BAGEL TAXES.

Does anyone have access to what he said in context? As it is in the Times, its completely harmless observation.

Darlughda · 05-09-2010 10:37PM

This is a fascinating topic.

Recently, I have become aware that the one subject area that is completely off is any sort of criticism of the judaic religion, more specifically, when adherents of this religion are called 'the jews'.

This has always made perfect sense to me because of

The holocaust
The christian imperialist attitude
the positions held by jewish people in society

However, it does alarm me that any sort of questioning or criticism of jewish people is immediately repudiated with accusations of racism, anti-semitism etc..

Mad sh1t is going on in Israel, jewish people there are even finding their voices silenced regarding the palestinian issue, so why here can we not discuss, satirise, joke and consider this ?

So what if people are claiming there is a secret cabal of jewish bankers ruling the world, if there is not then fair enough, but allegations of such to be met with immediate retorts of oh this is gross anti-semitism you vile thing you .....only makes people wonder wtf is so wrong to suggest this when every other kind of ethnic or racial group goes through the wringer occasionally?

Anti-Semitism - what exactly is it?

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