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While we're posting years-old articles on Palestine and Israel...

2

Comments

  • #32
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Same rubbish as always that Israel is somehow to blame for the barbaric acts taking place within the Palestinian community- I ask you- if it is poverty and not Islam or the Palestinians' tribalistic culture which propagates such horrendous treatment of women which is to blame, then why are honour killings still carried out by these people when they reach the affluent west and don't have such a problem?
    Just a FRACTION of what's out there:
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-11-29-honor-killings-in-the-US_N.htm
    In the USA, police allege the latest "honor killing" was that of Noor  Almaleki, 20, who died Nov. 2 after she and her boyfriend's mother were  run over in a Peoria, Ariz., parking lot. Prosecutors charged Almaleki's  father, Faleh Almaleki, with murder,saying[B] the Iraqi immigrant [/B]was  upsetthat his daughter rejected a husband she married in Iraq and moved  in with an American.
    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/08/10/honor_killing_comes_to_the_us/
    The report singled out as especially horrifying [B]the honor killing in  Pakistan [/B]of "a 16-year-old girl who was reportedly electrocuted to death  after being drugged with sleeping pills and being tied to a wooden bed  with iron chains." Her offense: marrying a boy from the wrong community.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1201625/Cheating-wife-face-honour-killing-acid-poured-lovers-throat.html
    The attack was allegedly carried out because the woman's family  believed she was having an affair with the 24-year-old man. She has  denied having a relationship with him. 

Police have reportedly warned the woman, [B]whose family is from Pakistan[/B], that her life may be at risk.
    http://www.iris.org.il/blog/archives/2250-UK-Muslim-Honor-Killing-Wife-Daughters-Burned-Alive.html
    Police investigations revealed how estranged Mr Riaz, a traditionalist  and a practising Muslim [B]who grew up in the North West Frontier Province  of Pakistan,[/B]
    http://www.christian.org.uk/news/christian-girl-fears-muslim-honour-killing-in-us-state/ 
    In 2008, two sisters from the Dallas area were murdered,[B] allegedly by their Egyptian-born Muslim father.[/B]
    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/honor_killings_islam_misogyny/
    In all,  292 girls, mostly aged between 14 and 17, received advice in 2009, a ten per  cent increase on 2008. [B]Around two-thirds were of migrant background.[/B]
    Just another attempt to point the finger at Israel for problems the Palestinians themselves created

    Thank you for the links. I suggest you note the (bolded) origins of these families. You may come to the same conclusion that I did, unless, of course, you are of the opinion that people who were raised in a particular cultural setting suddenly lose all sense of self-identity when they settle in a new country?

    By the way, if you take the trouble to read my previous posts, you will find that I tend to abhor violence, and denial of basic Human rights, irrespective of where it occurs. You will also find that I am no fan of Hamas, and that I have criticised attacks on Israeli citizens in the past - as well as Human rights abuses in Palestine.

    The fact that you can take a post that questions the role of poverty in human rights abuses, and questions whether aid and education might be more effective than warfare, - and turn that into a supposed "attack" on Israel reveals a great deal.

    Noreen


  • #33
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    We have a thread in After Hours where people are up in arms (quite rightly if it had happened recently) over an IDF soldier being acquitted for shooting a child. This is the exact same story Jonathan Ross re-tweeted on Twitter yesterday - which is where I assume the OP got it. However, the article is from 2005 so it's just an example of people going off on another Pro-Palestine rant on a completely outdated articlle. So here's an Anti-Palestine story from 2005 to redress the balance

    Hmmmm.....ironically it is this kind of mind numbingly stupid, tit for tat, "no you're the worst" nonsense that has kept the situation running over there for so long. Boards imitating life........I see what you did there OP......At least I hope that's what you were doing and you were being ironic and not actually using the horrific murder of innocent people as some kind of point scoring excercise to curry favour from reactionary half-wits in the way the IDF and Hammas do. Cause that would just make you an uncontrolable asshole and not very bright at all, at all.


  • #34
    Sefirah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭Sefirah


    wes wrote: »
    You highlighted the following in your above post:


    The blame is being put on the "Israeli/Palestinian conflict", and not as you mistakenly claim on Israel. So you are very much mistaken.


    It is very obvious that Noreen was blaming Israel for oh so selfishly defending itself, which she appears to think is at the expense of the Palestinians—as you can see in her remark:

    Noreen1 wrote: »
    Think of what it costs Israel to defend its borders, for one example! Then think about what could be achieved if the same amount of money was spent on establishing a decent quality of life for people in Gaza.


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    Thank you for the links. I suggest you note the (bolded) origins of these families. You may come to the same conclusion that I did, unless, of course, you are of the opinion that people who were raised in a particular cultural setting suddenly lose all sense of self-identity when they settle in a new country?

    By the way, if you take the trouble to read my previous posts, you will find that I tend to abhor violence, and denial of basic Human rights, irrespective of where it occurs. You will also find that I am no fan of Hamas, and that I have criticised attacks on Israeli citizens in the past - as well as Human rights abuses in Palestine.

    The fact that you can take a post that questions the role of poverty in human rights abuses, and questions whether aid and education might be more effective than warfare, - and turn that into a supposed "attack" on Israel reveals a great deal.

    Noreen

    Indeed, I never said their origins had nothing to do with the situation- in fact, their backward customs are what drive them to do these horrible acts. Yet it’s very difficult to say, as you did, that it is a matter of poverty- a great deal of the stories in the media of Muslims who carry out honour killings are NOT poor people, they simply cannot escape their backwards, woman hating belief system. Just look at the oil rich Arab states- they’re most certainly flooded by money, yet time after time doing horrendous things to women and their civilians in general.

    And no, I don’t care to troll through your posts. I’m talking about the here and now, and not some remarks you’ve made in the past.


  • #35
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Sefirah wrote: »

    It is very obvious that Noreen was blaming Israel for oh so selfishly defending itself, which she appears to think is at the expense of the Palestinians—as you can see in her remark:




    Indeed, I never said their origins had nothing to do with the situation- in fact, their backward customs are what drive them to do these horrible acts. Yet it’s very difficult to say, as you did, that it is a matter of poverty- a great deal of the stories in the media of Muslims who carry out honour killings are NOT poor people, they simply cannot escape their backwards, woman hating belief system. Just look at the oil rich Arab states- they’re most certainly flooded by money, yet time after time doing horrendous things to women and their civilians in general.

    And no, I don’t care to troll through your posts. I’m talking about the here and now, and not some remarks you’ve made in the past.


    Ahem: Perhaps you might care to read what I posted today. Just to refresh your memory, I'll emphasise the bits you clearly missed in your haste to defend Israel, despite the fact that it wasn't being attacked!!
    Noreen1 wrote: »

    I, for one, am seriously wondering how many of the Human rights issues we debate so often on Boards might be resolved by proper Humanitarian aid, with adequate education programmes?
    Noreen1 wrote: »

    These incidents, whether in Palestine or elsewhere, make me despair at the amount of money that is spent on warfare throughout the world. Think of what it costs Israel to defend its borders, for one example! Then think about what could be achieved if the same amount of money was spent on establishing a decent quality of life for people in Gaza.

    I'm not suggesting that defence forces aren't necessary - of course they are. I'm just sickened that so much money/resources go into killing what are too often innocent civilians - while that money could be put to better use building up a decent quality of life for ordinary people, which would do so much more for the cause of Peace and Human rights.

    Please, do tell me where I "was blaming Israel for oh so selfishly defending itself,". I specifically stated that defence forces were a necessity - though I abhor the fact that money/resources that could be used for improved living standards for people is used instead to kill and maim.
    The last time I checked, Israel wasn't the only country to have a defence force - and it is a fact that if less money was spent on warfare - worldwide - more resources would be available to tackle the kind of Human rights issues that this thread was originally about - ie. Dishonourable killings.

    Noreen


  • #36
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Terry wrote: »
    On the subject of old articles, does anyone have a story about Israel from 1946?

    Works both ways really... Is the West Bank really illegally occupied - or rather, are the Palestinians living under another occupier in The West Bank?.

    The West Bank was Jordanian until they lost it in the 1967 war, but it wasn't recognoized as Palestinian by the UN & The Arab League until 1974!.

    And are the (Palestinians) safer under the Israeli's, given the fact that Jordan has been pretty deft at killing Palestinians in the past - we still talking about history, right?.

    'Black September' anyone?.


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  • #37
    Sefirah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭Sefirah


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    The last time I checked, Israel wasn't the only country to have a defence force
    Gee whiz, yes, I'm sorry, while talking about the Arab/Israeli conflict in the previous line, you were OBVIOUSLY talking about some OTHER defence forces than the Israeli Defence Forces. Why, how obvious...

    Just another person who throws in the odd remark to use yet another chance to lash out at Israel. Noticed you've given up on the argument that it's poverty that causes these honour killings. Interesting.


  • #38
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Weak attempt to avoid the issue- I quoted a specific post which blatantly accused Israel of being responsible for the barbaric actions of the Palestinians. If you're not able to find a suitable response, then don't bother answering, but trying to de-legitimise what I said isn't doing anything for you

    I read it.

    In that sense, are these poor women as much victims of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as those who are killed in a conflict situation?
    ie. If Palestine had a sustainable, reasonably affluent economy, would these "tribal" customs still exist? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't.



    "Israeli/Palestinian conflict" is not 'all Israels fault'. Its a very neutral statement
    Sefirah wrote: »
    It is very obvious that Noreen was blaming Israel for oh so selfishly defending itself

    As somebody who wouldn't even pretend to be neutral on the subject of Israels actions, I have to say thats just not the case.


  • #39
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Diana Scary Motorbike wrote: »
    Works both ways really... Is the West Bank really illegally occupied - or rather, are the Palestinians living under another occupier in The West Bank?.
    .

    In which case they're still illegaly occupied.........
    Diana Scary Motorbike wrote: »
    The West Bank was Jordanian until they lost it in the 1967 war, but it wasn't recognoized as Palestinian by the UN & The Arab League until 1974!.
    .

    And we were under the same colour of red as marked Britain on the maps till 1922 or so.

    Diana Scary Motorbike wrote: »
    And are the (Palestinians) safer under the Israeli's, given the fact that Jordan has been pretty deft at killing Palestinians in the past - we still talking about history, right?.
    'Black September' anyone?.

    A single incident of (tragic) conflict versus 40 years of martial law and land theft....Hmmmmm. Must be why so many Palestinians stayed in Jordan.

    'Black september' was the kind of thing that happens when a population is made a minority in its own territory overnight. Similar destabilisation occurred in Lebanon due to the influx there when they were expelled from Jordan. Arafats hysteria aside, the highest claim for casualties is around 2,000 dead


  • #40
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Gee whiz, yes, I'm sorry, while talking about the Arab/Israeli conflict in the previous line, you were OBVIOUSLY talking about some OTHER defence forces than the Israeli Defence Forces. Why, how obvious...

    Just another person who throws in the odd remark to use yet another chance to lash out at Israel. Noticed you've given up on the argument that it's poverty that causes these honour killings. Interesting.

    Is that the best you can do? Seriously?

    You assumed (wrongly) that your beloved Israel was being attacked.
    Other people actually went to the trouble of reading my post, and realised that my reference to Israel was in the context of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Since the original post was about Human rights abuses in Palestine, referencing the Israeli defence costs was perfectly valid 
    for one example

    Now that I have refuted your argument, and demonstrated exactly where you misinterpreted what I said, you resort to the above post!

    I suggest you read my last post again - especially this bit:
    Noreen1 wrote: »

    These incidents, whether in Palestine or elsewhere, make me despair at the amount of money that is spent on warfare throughout the world. Think of what it costs Israel to defend its borders, for one example! Then think about what could be achieved if the same amount of money was spent on establishing a decent quality of life for people in Gaza.

    I'm not suggesting that defence forces aren't necessary - of course they are..

    I suggest that I made it perfectly obvious that I was referring to worldwide expenditure on defence costs, while acknowledging the necessity for a defence force.
    If you can't/wont see that, frankly, that's your problem!

    Noreen


  • #41
    Sefirah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭Sefirah


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    Is that the best you can do? Seriously?

    You assumed (wrongly) that your beloved Israel was being attacked.
    Other people actually went to the trouble of reading my post, and realised that my reference to Israel was in the context of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Since the original post was about Human rights abuses in Palestine, referencing the Israeli defence costs was perfectly valid 
    for one example

    Now that I have refuted your argument, and demonstrated exactly where you misinterpreted what I said, you resort to the above post!

    I suggest you read my last post again - especially this bit:


    I suggest that I made it perfectly obvious that I was referring to worldwide expenditure on defence costs, while acknowledging the necessity for a defence force.
    If you can't/wont see that, frankly, that's your problem!

    Noreen

    Still never responded to the claims tha 'poverty' was to blame for Palestinians treating their women like trash. Lets face it- not every Muslim country just so happens to be 'poor' - the problem is an insane ideology which they like to call 'Islam'.

    Forgive me if I can't get past these hoards of other people (Nodin and Wes, basically) Refuted my argument? Where? And lets face it- if Israel started giving even a fraction of its budget for security to the Palestinians, they'd simply be buying prettier rockets. After all, they're a nation which have been positively soaked in money and yet are still kept in refugee status unnecessarily by their own friendly Muslim neighbours so that there still remains a reason to hate Israel.


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  • #42
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Still never responded to the claims tha 'poverty' was to blame for Palestinians treating their women like trash. Lets face it- not every Muslim country just so happens to be 'poor' - the problem is an insane ideology which they like to call 'Islam'..

    Which ignores the fact its (honour killing) also a problem in Hindu, Sikh and Christian communities across the globe......

    You do realise the incident in the OP concerned Palestinian christians...?
    Sefirah wrote: »
    After all, they're a nation which have been positively soaked in money and yet are still kept in refugee status unnecessarily by their own friendly Muslim neighbours so that there still remains a reason to hate Israel.

    As oppossed to the wonderful treatment they receive in the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem.


  • #43
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Diana Scary Motorbike wrote: »
    Works both ways really... Is the West Bank really illegally occupied - or rather, are the Palestinians living under another occupier in The West Bank?.

    The West Bank was Jordanian until they lost it in the 1967 war, but it wasn't recognoized as Palestinian by the UN & The Arab League until 1974!.

    And are the (Palestinians) safer under the Israeli's, given the fact that Jordan has been pretty deft at killing Palestinians in the past - we still talking about history, right?.

    'Black September' anyone?.

    I'd argue that none of this would have happened at all if it were not for the British, French, Dutch, Spanish and, to a certain extent, the Americans drawing straight lines on maps, and completely ignoring local tribes and the lands they inhabited.

    Post war Britain and America are directly responsible for the creation of the state of Israel. Now I'm not ignoring the atrocities committed by the Nazis. It would be wrong to do that. However, relocating the survivors to to a place where they are surrounded by people who really hate Jewish people was a bad idea. Displacing the locals was a worse idea. Continued encroachment on Palestinian lands is ridiculous, and treating Pasestinians as the scum of the Earth (imprisioning a Palestinian for having sex with a Jewish woman withouttelling her he was Palestinian for example) will always incite hatred.

    The Israelis and the Palestinians need to get their heads out of their arses. One side is as guilty as the other. As we have seen on our own island, tit for tat killings solve absolutely nothing. Covering up atrocities carried out by the military forces and killing innocent children will just make the other side hate you even more. It took almost 40 years to sort out the bloody sunday mess, and look at what happened in between.

    The Israelis should be happy with the land they have. Hamas, much like the provos, need to be removed from power in Gaza, but this will not happen while the people of Gaza are treated like scum.

    Or we could just wait for Iran to nuke the whole area and be happy that they put all the people there out of their misery.


  • #44
    Ali Babba
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Ali Babba


    To be quite honest I don't really care what goes on in most other countries, especially ones that have extreme religious views, i'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot they wouldn't even know where Ireland is or care much either.

    We should be more concerned with our own country and the hardships that are happening to its people and the hardships that are going to occur in the very near future.


  • #45
    King Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭King Felix


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Still never responded to the claims tha 'poverty' was to blame for Palestinians treating their women like trash. Lets face it- not every Muslim country just so happens to be 'poor' - the problem is an insane ideology which they like to call 'Islam'.

    Here's an Israeli made documentary to show you how some Palestinian women are treated in the West Bank...

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/checkpoint/


  • #46
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    King Felix wrote: »
    Here's an Israeli made documentary to show you how some Palestinian women are treated in the West Bank...

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/checkpoint/
    Did he show how certain Jewish people forbid women from showing their bare arms in public, or how they have to dress modestly so as not to excite men?

    All Abrahamic religions have ****ed up extremists who degrade women. While Islam may currently have the highest number, Christianity isn't too far behind. Especially in the U.S., Africa and Asia.


  • #47
    Sefirah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭Sefirah


    Terry wrote: »
    Did he show how certain Jewish people forbid women from showing their bare arms in public, or how they have to dress modestly so as not to excite men?

    All Abrahamic religions have ****ed up extremists who degrade women. While Islam may currently have the highest number, Christianity isn't too far behind. Especially in the U.S., Africa and Asia.

    Other than the odd fruitcake spot like Mea Shearim, the Jews don't even begin to compare with Muslim in terms of ill treatment of women. Practically all religions have some definition of 'modesty'. But the fact is, with burkas and complete segregation of women, not to mention the stories upon stories of screwed up behaviour towards females, Islam is in a league of its own.


  • #48
    King Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭King Felix


    Terry wrote: »
    Did he show how certain Jewish people forbid women from showing their bare arms in public, or how they have to dress modestly so as not to excite men?

    All Abrahamic religions have ****ed up extremists who degrade women. While Islam may currently have the highest number, Christianity isn't too far behind. Especially in the U.S., Africa and Asia.

    It's just a documentary about the West Bank checkpoints and the humiliation and abuse the Palestinians have to suffer in crossing them.

    Well worth a watch. And well worth Sefirah watching it, though I'd be surprised if does.


  • #49
    Sefirah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 271 ✭✭Sefirah


    Been there, seen that, and I can tell you they were happy people. Irish people like to make out that the Palestinian are living in squalor over there, when it couldn't be further from the truth. The only people I have sympathy for in these areas are western women like me who had to endure the sh1thead Muslim men trying to grope them because they weren't the usual head to toe oppressed species they were accustomed to.
    If you’re looking for good coverage of what really goes on in the West Bank, I suggest reading deputy Israeli Ambassador Ruth Zakh’s letter to the Irish Independent, Thursday August 26 2010.

    Charles Murphy (Letters, August 23) is greatly mistaken in his criticisms of
    Israel's involvement in the West Bank.

    Mr Murphy would have us believe that some form of 'apartheid' exists there.
    It is a strange form of 'apartheid' that, since Israel acquired control of
    the West Bank: Arab life expectancy has gone up from 48 to 73; infant
    mortality has been reduced from 60 to 15 per 1,000 births; and the number of
    universities has increased from one to seven.

    Contrary to what the writer appears to believe, Arab Palestinians in the
    West Bank have lived since 1993 under the rule of the autonomous Palestinian
    Authority, pending a final two-state peace agreement.

    The security measures he mentions were unfortunately necessary to deal with
    attacks by suicide bombers and other terrorists, infiltrating from the West
    Bank and Gaza, who have killed 1,185 Israelis, including 125 Israeli
    children, since 2000.

    With many of the restrictions now lifted in the light of an improved
    security situation, the West Bank economy has been booming, with 8pc growth
    reported last year. Israel will continue to collaborate with the Palestinian
    Authority to improve living conditions there.

    As for the circumstances surrounding the end of the Hamas 'truce', it is
    widely known that Hamas formally declared it ended on December 19, 2008 (six
    weeks after, it had resumed attacks, trying to abduct Israeli soldiers using
    a tunnel dug into Israel and renewing its rocket and mortar fire from Gaza).

    A further eight-day Hamas barrage of 66 rockets and 81 mortars after that
    date made Israel's self-defence measures to end the attacks from Gaza
    unavoidable.

    Ruth Zakh
    Embassy of Israel, Dublin 4

    Irish Independent.


  • #50
    The Saint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    Sefirah wrote: »
    But the fact is, with burkas and complete segregation of women, not to mention the stories upon stories of screwed up behaviour towards females, Islam is in a league of its own.
    Are you saying that there women have to wear Burkas and be segregated in the West Bank? I know there is segregation of women on some busses in Jerusalem and attacks take place on women who don't comply with this segregation. Also these busses are provided by the municipality and the new tram system in Jerusalem will have segregated sections. Also, this goes beyong Mea Shearim where women get spat on and attacked for wearing jeans.

    While of course this is not representative of all Jews in Israel, what you are saying is certainly not representative of all Palestinians.


  • #51
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Been there, seen that, and I can tell you they were happy people. .

    Jaysus, a comiedienne.....
    Sefirah wrote: »
    The only people I have sympathy for in these areas are western women like me who had to endure the sh1thead Muslim men trying to grope them .
    Never go to Santa Ponsa.
    The other funny one wrote:
    The security measures he mentions were unfortunately necessary to deal with
    attacks by suicide bombers and other terrorists,..........

    ...and mainly to protect the settlements/colonies. The ones outside Israels borders. Funny the way she didn't mention that.


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  • #52
    The Saint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭The Saint


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Been there, seen that, and I can tell you they were happy people. Irish people like to make out that the Palestinian are living in squalor over there, when it couldn't be further from the truth. The only people I have sympathy for in these areas are western women like me who had to endure the sh1thead Muslim men trying to grope them because they weren't the usual head to toe oppressed species they were accustomed to.
    If you’re looking for good coverage of what really goes on in the West Bank, I suggest reading deputy Israeli Ambassador Ruth Zakh’s letter to the Irish Independent, Thursday August 26 2010.


    Yes, I'm sure the deputy ambassador has a good idea of what is actually happening in the West Bank. However, she fails to mention that many children living in Area C of the West Bank, under exclusive Israeli control, have lower nutritional indicators than those in Gaza with high prevalances of malnutrition and stunting.

    Also, I'd be interested in knowing what Palestinian areas you have been to and in what context.


  • #53
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Sefirah wrote: »
    Other than the odd fruitcake spot like Mea Shearim, the Jews don't even begin to compare with Muslim in terms of ill treatment of women. Practically all religions have some definition of 'modesty'. But the fact is, with burkas and complete segregation of women, not to mention the stories upon stories of screwed up behaviour towards females, Islam is in a league of its own.
    Islam wins in the numbers game.
    To deny that fanatical Judaism exists is to be extremely naive.
    There is only about 15 million Jews on the planet, compared to 1.5 billion Muslims. Reverse those numbers and I guarantee that Jewish fanaticism would be highly criticised.

    King Felix wrote: »
    It's just a documentary about the West Bank checkpoints and the humiliation and abuse the Palestinians have to suffer in crossing them.

    Well worth a watch. And well worth Sefirah watching it, though I'd be surprised if does.
    I doubt she will.
    Sefirah wrote: »
    Been there, seen that, and I can tell you they were happy people. Irish people like to make out that the Palestinian are living in squalor over there, when it couldn't be further from the truth. The only people I have sympathy for in these areas are western women like me who had to endure the sh1thead Muslim men trying to grope them because they weren't the usual head to toe oppressed species they were accustomed to.
    If you’re looking for good coverage of what really goes on in the West Bank, I suggest reading deputy Israeli Ambassador Ruth Zakh’s letter to the Irish Independent, Thursday August 26 2010.

    Yeah, that's not biased at all.
    I wonder what she has to say about Gaza.
    You know Gaza, right? That place where people are living in slums and children are regularly murdered by trigger happy Israeli soldiers? The place that keeps on shrinking as Israel expands.


  • #54
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Saint wrote: »
    Are you saying that there women have to wear Burkas and be segregated in the West Bank? I know there is segregation of women on some busses in Jerusalem and attacks take place on women who don't comply with this segregation. Also these busses are provided by the municipality and the new tram system in Jerusalem will have segregated sections. Also, this goes beyong Mea Shearim where women get spat on and attacked for wearing jeans.

    'modesty patrols'
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27023066/

    And jaysus forbid theres 'mixing of the races'.....
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/29/israel-jewish-arab-couples


  • #55
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Saint wrote: »
    Yes, I'm sure the deputy ambassador has a good idea of what is actually happening in the West Bank. However, she fails to mention that many children living in Area C of the West Bank, under exclusive Israeli control, have lower nutritional indicators than those in Gaza with high prevalances of malnutrition and stunting.

    Entirely correct Sir.
    http://www.soschildrensvillages.org.uk/charity-news/archive/2010/06/children-in-the-west-bank-suffer-2018worse-than-gaza2019


  • #56
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Ironically, this is the same Palestine Irish feminists clamour for :rolleyes:

    I think we tend to support the underdog. In the case of Israel Vs the Palestinians then we tend to side with the palestinians.

    However when faced with Israel Vs The Arab World, then Israel gets our support.

    So there's a huge grey area. We will support palestinians only until they get some power at which point their social bigotory will be the focus of our ire.


  • #57
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Terry wrote: »
    Yeah, that's not biased at all.
    I wonder what she has to say about Gaza.
    You know Gaza, right? That place where people are living in slums and children are regularly murdered by trigger happy Israeli soldiers? The place that keeps on shrinking as Israel expands.

    Why is it biased? You read the article (otherwise your bias comment wouldnt make any sense) so why dont you comment on it?

    Explain how Gaza keeps shrinking?

    And when were the last children murdered?

    And while you're at it how about showing us how Gaza compares to the Palestinian camps in Jordan and Lebanon?


  • #58
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Terry wrote: »
    To deny that fanatical Judaism exists is to be extremely naive.
    There is only about 15 million Jews on the planet, compared to 1.5 billion Muslims.

    "fanatical Judaism"?

    Are those the people that dont let women drive cars and make them wear those shawls that cover all but the eyes?

    Do they issue assassination edicts against those that insult their religion?

    Do they ban alcohol?

    :pac:

    :pac:

    :pac:


  • #59
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Terry wrote: »
    Did he show how certain Jewish people forbid women from showing their bare arms in public, or how they have to dress modestly so as not to excite men?

    Sounds catholic to me.


  • #60
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    "fanatical Judaism"?

    Are those the people that dont let women drive cars and make them wear

    So you're saying theres no extremists within Judaism.....?
    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Explain how Gaza keeps shrinking?

    "security buffer" etc.
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/12/gaza%E2%80%99s-shrinking-borders-16-years-of-the-oslo-process/


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  • #61
    deravarra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    Nice to see our friends from the JIDF frequenting many threads including this one, on boards...


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