FG/FF coalition after the next election?

Min · 22-08-2010 12:56PM #1

It on todays Irish mail on Sunday that informal talks have taken place between the two parties.

It goes that it believed that FF, FG and Labour will all roughly win around 40 plus seats.

The parties have talked about putting the civil war politics where it belongs - in the past and instead to concentrate on ideologies. FG and FF are both on the right while Labour are on the left.

The parties believe Labour wouldn't make the hard decisions needed with the public sector.
FG would get the Taoiseach role for 5 years, unlike having to share it with Eamon Gilmore. There is still a want to get Enda Kenny removed.

Interesting....

deise go deo · 22-08-2010 01:05PM

Min wrote: »

It on todays Irish mail on Sunday that informal talks have taken place between the two parties.

It goes that it believed that FF, FG and Labour will all roughly win around 40 plus seats.

The parties have talked about putting the civil war politics where it belongs - in the past and instead to concentrate on ideologies. FG and FF are both on the right while Labour are on the left.

The parties believe Labour wouldn't make the hard decisions needed with the public sector.
FG would get the Taoiseach role for 5 years, unlike having to share it with Eamon Gilmore. There is still a want to get Enda Kenny removed.

Interesting....

I cant see FF ever going into such a colition as the Junior partner, If they want to recover as a party they would be better off on the oppisition benches

Sulmac · 22-08-2010 01:08PM

If Fine Gael have any sense of decency or self-worth they'd avoid a coalition with Fianna Fáil like the plague.

For Forks Sake · 22-08-2010 01:10PM

Min wrote: »

todays Irish mail on Sunday

I would put more faith in what my dog has to say than that rag

Min · 22-08-2010 01:16PM

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

losthorizon · 22-08-2010 01:31PM

Min wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

Well, FF were in coalition with the PDs

Min · 22-08-2010 01:38PM

losthorizon wrote: »

Well, FF were in coalition with the PDs

The interesting thing there is the PDs was made up of mostly FF/FG people.....

Einhard · 22-08-2010 02:01PM

I honestly believe that the best thing for this country would be a merger between FF and FG. They are both parties of the centre and there's very little to distinguish between their policies. The reason we're in the mess we're in is because Irish governments (FF ones in particular) have always made decisions with an eye on the next election, and thus failed to make the hard ones. That, above all else, was the great failing of Bertie et al. A combination of FF and FG would be far more electorally secure, and thus more likely to take the politically punishing decisions. Furthermore, it would align Irish politics along a much more natural ideological divide than the current civil war schism, and hopefully allow the emergence of a truly left wing alternative.

rasper · 22-08-2010 02:06PM

Is there any difference between the two parties, don't think they'll go ahead coz they'll have to share the cake between too many, what we need is total eradication of all the wasters in government and in opposition, not jobs for ALL the boys

PomBear · 22-08-2010 04:46PM

Min wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

What has that got to do with him having workable policies or not?

Min · 22-08-2010 05:02PM

PomBear wrote: »

What has that got to do with him having workable policies or not?

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

Nationalise the banks is what Eamon wants......must be something he has dreamed about since his workers party days...

Essexboy · 22-08-2010 05:14PM

Min wrote: »

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

Nationalise the banks is what Eamon wants......must be something he has dreamed about since his workers party days...

A far more sensible policy than NAMA!

PomBear · 22-08-2010 05:19PM

Min wrote: »

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

Nationalise the banks is what Eamon wants......must be something he has dreamed about since his workers party days...

I was referring to the workers party comment

but Nationalising the banks years ago, which i can remember SF calling for and were called economic illiterates for doing so, would have been the right decision. Nationalising the banks now is not a labour policy as they can see as clear as day what its doing to the economy

PeterIanStaker · 22-08-2010 05:35PM

This is in the Mail on Sunday, a rag that manages to be more full of rubbish than the Sindo, speaking of which, I remember the Spindo came out with a similar article (coup against Biffo, FFers defecting to FG or somesuch) a month or so ago. Bulls hit.

Liam Byrne · 22-08-2010 05:59PM

I reckon whatever so-called "reporter" spouted this rubbish is just trying to damage FG's chances of getting votes......not sure whether that means they're supporters of FF or Labour.

But I'll be getting whatever FG candidate lands on my doorstep to swear point-blank that they won't sell their souls like the Greens did........and if necessary I'll record it.

And if they refuse to unequivocally and explicitly rule out going in with FF, they won't get my vote.

I'd urge everyone to do the same; and I'd urge any FG members on here to take back to their cumanns or whatever they're called that unless Kenny comes out and rules this out - unvaguely and not in the way Trevor Sargent did - then they're getting feck-all votes.

Rosahane · 22-08-2010 06:20PM

Min wrote: »

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

...

Possibly from an ideological perspective. However, some of the best governments we have had have involved FG and Labour, the last rainbow coalition was probably the best in the last fifty tears and set the stage for the economic recovery from the mess that Haughey left us in, only to have it squandered by Ahern and co.

In any case any ideological divide pales into insignificance when you consider the moral divide between FF who are fundamentally a bunch of self serving crooks, and FG and Labour who have standards!

Liam Byrne · 22-08-2010 06:44PM

Rosahane wrote: »

FG and Labour who have standards!

Better standards, undoubtedly.

But still not enough.

Callan57 · 22-08-2010 07:01PM

Hell will freeze over first

Jeboa Safari · 22-08-2010 07:12PM

Can't see it happening, be stupid thing to do for both parties

I honestly believe that the best thing for this country would be a merger between FF and FG. They are both parties of the centre and there's very little to distinguish between their policies. The reason we're in the mess we're in is because Irish governments (FF ones in particular) have always made decisions with an eye on the next election, and thus failed to make the hard ones. That, above all else, was the great failing of Bertie et al. A combination of FF and FG would be far more electorally secure, and thus more likely to take the politically punishing decisions. Furthermore, it would align Irish politics along a much more natural ideological divide than the current civil war schism, and hopefully allow the emergence of a truly left wing alternative.

We need a right wing alternative more than more lefties

Einhard · 22-08-2010 07:35PM

Rosahane wrote: »

In any case any ideological divide pales into insignificance when you consider the moral divide between FF who are fundamentally a bunch of self serving crooks, and FG and Labour who have standards!

I think such generalisations are both inaccurate and unhelpful. The shitstorm we're in at the moment isn't down to FF skulduggery or crookery, but basic incompetence, and the subordination of good governance to the need for re-election. FG has its fair share of crooks too, and by all accounts, the one who could possibly cost the state more than any other, a certain Michael Lowry, may soon be welcomed back into the fold.

Einhard · 22-08-2010 07:36PM

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

We need a right wing alternative more than more lefties

We need a proper choice.

yoshytoshy · 22-08-2010 07:39PM

I hear the words misdemeanor when the words coalition FF/FG come together.

Liam Byrne · 22-08-2010 09:21PM

Einhard wrote: »

The shitstorm we're in at the moment isn't down to FF skulduggery or crookery, but basic incompetence, and the subordination of good governance to the need for re-election.

There's certainly incompetence, but considering their stance on the corrupt banks, the secrecy involved in the meeting re the bailout, and their washing their hands of all decisions made by the now State-owned banks, it's difficult to imagine that there is no skullduggery involved.

Einhard wrote: »

FG has its fair share of crooks too, and by all accounts, the one who could possibly cost the state more than any other, a certain Michael Lowry, may soon be welcomed back into the fold.

It certainly seems to have a lot less, but I can guarantee FG that if they do welcome Lowry back in, they can say goodbye to any chance of my vote.

Einhard · 22-08-2010 11:22PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

There's certainly incompetence, but considering their stance on the corrupt banks, the secrecy involved in the meeting re the bailout, and their washing their hands of all decisions made by the now State-owned banks, it's difficult to imagine that there is no skullduggery involved.

I think the problem is that some people hate FF so much that they allow their imaginations to get the better of them, dream up with scenarios with no evidence to back them up, and then claim it all as empirical fact. I don't happen to believe that the gaurantees were dreamed up to protect a chosen few, and unless concrete evidence can be produced to the contrary, such claims belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Liam Byrne · 22-08-2010 11:35PM

Einhard wrote: »

I think the problem is that some people hate FF so much that they allow their imaginations to get the better of them, dream up with scenarios with no evidence to back them up, and then claim it all as empirical fact. I don't happen to believe that the gaurantees were dreamed up to protect a chosen few, and unless concrete evidence can be produced to the contrary, such claims belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However please bear in mind that the hatred of FF that you speak of comes BECAUSE of their actions, and not the oft-voiced defensive lie that the cart was before the horse.

There's no denying the level of debt imposed on us by Lenihan, the secrecy involved, the blinkered "there is no alternative" and the point-blank refusal to impose any logical limits are VERY strange.

Unless concrete evidence can be produced to state that these were a good idea, I think the "NAMA will make a profit", "Anglo is of systemic importance", "too big to fail" and "there is no alternative" belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Of course, if they hadn't been so subversive and secretive about that fateful meeting in Sept 2008, and had actually kept minutes and told the truth about it, I could well have my vague suspicions proven to be unfounded.

It's not my fault that they refused to do this.

oppenheimer1 · 22-08-2010 11:51PM

I would like to see a grand coalition as I feel it could achieve great things bringing the best of both parties together. The reality though is that it will never happen as it would damage the brand of both parties permanently disenfranchising many long time voters. The thought of Enda putting Brian Lenihan into the Taoiseachs chair would be enough to make many tear up their membership.

Would they put country before party? I doubt it.

Biggins · 23-08-2010 12:37AM

If FG was to go into coalition with FF after the next general election, they will have lost my vote and my families votes for ever.

rightwingdub · 23-08-2010 10:22AM

Min wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

Comrade Eamon prefers not to talk about his past in the Workers Party and his love for Eastern European communist dictatorships, its quite embarrassing for him but he prefers to engage in righteous indignation towards FF:mad:

Yes I would support a FG-FF coalition, If people are peeved off they can always vote for either Labour or Sinn Fein.

Its about time there was a proper left-right ideological divide in Ireland. Irish politics needs to become ideological.

Rosahane · 23-08-2010 10:40AM

Einhard wrote: »

I think such generalisations are both inaccurate and unhelpful. The shitstorm we're in at the moment isn't down to FF skulduggery or crookery, but basic incompetence, and the subordination of good governance to the need for re-election. FG has its fair share of crooks too, and by all accounts, the one who could possibly cost the state more than any other, a certain Michael Lowry, may soon be welcomed back into the fold.

Firstly I don't think it is an inaccurate generalisation. Maybe a bit simplistic and basic as a argument but fundamentally true for all that.

The situation we are in at the moment is down to either skulduggery or incompetence, either Cowen and Lenihan believed all the lies from the bankers or were part of a greater conspiracy with the bankers. I believe that FF are crooks, not stupid!

WRT Lowry and FG crooks, I accept that there have been, and undoubtedly are crooks in FG. There are definitely incompetents. However, unlike FF when wrongdoing is identified it is swiftly dealt with, not defended and excused. The biggest problem I have with FG is that for the last twenty years they are trying to play FF at their own populist game instead of sticking to the principles that had sustained them over the years.

murphaph · 23-08-2010 10:59AM

FF and FG are indeed ideologically very similar. In any other Western European democracy they would be one and the same party, with a much more left leaning Labour alternative.

I believe, that someday (if Ireland is to move on and mature) that this will need to happen. We need a proper choice, left and right. Populist centrist parties like we've had running the show do nobody any favours long term.

Pete_Cavan · 23-08-2010 01:39PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I would like to see a grand coalition as I feel it could achieve great things bringing the best of both parties together. The reality though is that it will never happen as it would damage the brand of both parties permanently disenfranchising many long time voters. The thought of Enda putting Brian Lenihan into the Taoiseachs chair would be enough to make many tear up their membership.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. There are too many people who vote for one particular party and thats that.

There is a very limited number of quality politicians in this country and neither FF or FG have enough good candidates to fill all, or even most of the roles required if they are in government alone. A coalition between the two would mean less important jobs given to people on the basis of "well who else do you give it". It would mean the dead wood could be cut from both parties and the overall standard would be higher. Unfortunately neither party wants to lose the guaranteed support they receive from certain voters and joining up with the other side would damage this so I cant see it happening.

There are flaws with all our main political parties but I think the biggest problem is the electorate. We dont like anything new or different so it is almost impossible for new parties to establish themselves or for existing parties to evolve. We would prefer to stick with how things have always been and complain about it when this system constantly fails us.
Personally I think a FF FG coalition would be good but only if Enda doesn’t become Taoiseach.

FG/FF coalition after the next election?

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