FG/FF coalition after the next election?

Min

It on todays Irish mail on Sunday that informal talks have taken place between the two parties.

It goes that it believed that FF, FG and Labour will all roughly win around 40 plus seats.

The parties have talked about putting the civil war politics where it belongs - in the past and instead to concentrate on ideologies. FG and FF are both on the right while Labour are on the left.

The parties believe Labour wouldn't make the hard decisions needed with the public sector.
FG would get the Taoiseach role for 5 years, unlike having to share it with Eamon Gilmore. There is still a want to get Enda Kenny removed.

Interesting....

deise go deo

Min wrote: »

It on todays Irish mail on Sunday that informal talks have taken place between the two parties.

It goes that it believed that FF, FG and Labour will all roughly win around 40 plus seats.

The parties have talked about putting the civil war politics where it belongs - in the past and instead to concentrate on ideologies. FG and FF are both on the right while Labour are on the left.

The parties believe Labour wouldn't make the hard decisions needed with the public sector.
FG would get the Taoiseach role for 5 years, unlike having to share it with Eamon Gilmore. There is still a want to get Enda Kenny removed.

Interesting....

I cant see FF ever going into such a colition as the Junior partner, If they want to recover as a party they would be better off on the oppisition benches

Sulmac

If Fine Gael have any sense of decency or self-worth they'd avoid a coalition with Fianna Fáil like the plague.

For Forks Sake

Min wrote: »

todays Irish mail on Sunday

I would put more faith in what my dog has to say than that rag

Min

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

losthorizon

Min wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

Well, FF were in coalition with the PDs

Min

losthorizon wrote: »

Well, FF were in coalition with the PDs

The interesting thing there is the PDs was made up of mostly FF/FG people.....

Einhard

I honestly believe that the best thing for this country would be a merger between FF and FG. They are both parties of the centre and there's very little to distinguish between their policies. The reason we're in the mess we're in is because Irish governments (FF ones in particular) have always made decisions with an eye on the next election, and thus failed to make the hard ones. That, above all else, was the great failing of Bertie et al. A combination of FF and FG would be far more electorally secure, and thus more likely to take the politically punishing decisions. Furthermore, it would align Irish politics along a much more natural ideological divide than the current civil war schism, and hopefully allow the emergence of a truly left wing alternative.

rasper

Is there any difference between the two parties, don't think they'll go ahead coz they'll have to share the cake between too many, what we need is total eradication of all the wasters in government and in opposition, not jobs for ALL the boys

PomBear

Min wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

What has that got to do with him having workable policies or not?

Min

PomBear wrote: »

What has that got to do with him having workable policies or not?

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

Nationalise the banks is what Eamon wants......must be something he has dreamed about since his workers party days...

Essexboy

Min wrote: »

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

Nationalise the banks is what Eamon wants......must be something he has dreamed about since his workers party days...

A far more sensible policy than NAMA!

PomBear

Min wrote: »

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

Nationalise the banks is what Eamon wants......must be something he has dreamed about since his workers party days...

I was referring to the workers party comment

but Nationalising the banks years ago, which i can remember SF calling for and were called economic illiterates for doing so, would have been the right decision. Nationalising the banks now is not a labour policy as they can see as clear as day what its doing to the economy

PeterIanStaker

This is in the Mail on Sunday, a rag that manages to be more full of rubbish than the Sindo, speaking of which, I remember the Spindo came out with a similar article (coup against Biffo, FFers defecting to FG or somesuch) a month or so ago. Bulls hit.

Liam Byrne

I reckon whatever so-called "reporter" spouted this rubbish is just trying to damage FG's chances of getting votes......not sure whether that means they're supporters of FF or Labour.

But I'll be getting whatever FG candidate lands on my doorstep to swear point-blank that they won't sell their souls like the Greens did........and if necessary I'll record it.

And if they refuse to unequivocally and explicitly rule out going in with FF, they won't get my vote.

I'd urge everyone to do the same; and I'd urge any FG members on here to take back to their cumanns or whatever they're called that unless Kenny comes out and rules this out - unvaguely and not in the way Trevor Sargent did - then they're getting feck-all votes.

Rosahane

Min wrote: »

It is the divide between FG and Labour is far wider than the divide between FG and FF.

...

Possibly from an ideological perspective. However, some of the best governments we have had have involved FG and Labour, the last rainbow coalition was probably the best in the last fifty tears and set the stage for the economic recovery from the mess that Haughey left us in, only to have it squandered by Ahern and co.

In any case any ideological divide pales into insignificance when you consider the moral divide between FF who are fundamentally a bunch of self serving crooks, and FG and Labour who have standards!

Liam Byrne

Rosahane wrote: »

FG and Labour who have standards!

Better standards, undoubtedly.

But still not enough.

Callan57

Hell will freeze over first

Jeboa Safari

Can't see it happening, be stupid thing to do for both parties

I honestly believe that the best thing for this country would be a merger between FF and FG. They are both parties of the centre and there's very little to distinguish between their policies. The reason we're in the mess we're in is because Irish governments (FF ones in particular) have always made decisions with an eye on the next election, and thus failed to make the hard ones. That, above all else, was the great failing of Bertie et al. A combination of FF and FG would be far more electorally secure, and thus more likely to take the politically punishing decisions. Furthermore, it would align Irish politics along a much more natural ideological divide than the current civil war schism, and hopefully allow the emergence of a truly left wing alternative.

We need a right wing alternative more than more lefties

Einhard

Rosahane wrote: »

In any case any ideological divide pales into insignificance when you consider the moral divide between FF who are fundamentally a bunch of self serving crooks, and FG and Labour who have standards!

I think such generalisations are both inaccurate and unhelpful. The shitstorm we're in at the moment isn't down to FF skulduggery or crookery, but basic incompetence, and the subordination of good governance to the need for re-election. FG has its fair share of crooks too, and by all accounts, the one who could possibly cost the state more than any other, a certain Michael Lowry, may soon be welcomed back into the fold.

Einhard

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

We need a right wing alternative more than more lefties

We need a proper choice.

yoshytoshy

I hear the words misdemeanor when the words coalition FF/FG come together.

Liam Byrne

Einhard wrote: »

The shitstorm we're in at the moment isn't down to FF skulduggery or crookery, but basic incompetence, and the subordination of good governance to the need for re-election.

There's certainly incompetence, but considering their stance on the corrupt banks, the secrecy involved in the meeting re the bailout, and their washing their hands of all decisions made by the now State-owned banks, it's difficult to imagine that there is no skullduggery involved.

Einhard wrote: »

FG has its fair share of crooks too, and by all accounts, the one who could possibly cost the state more than any other, a certain Michael Lowry, may soon be welcomed back into the fold.

It certainly seems to have a lot less, but I can guarantee FG that if they do welcome Lowry back in, they can say goodbye to any chance of my vote.

Einhard

Liam Byrne wrote: »

There's certainly incompetence, but considering their stance on the corrupt banks, the secrecy involved in the meeting re the bailout, and their washing their hands of all decisions made by the now State-owned banks, it's difficult to imagine that there is no skullduggery involved.

I think the problem is that some people hate FF so much that they allow their imaginations to get the better of them, dream up with scenarios with no evidence to back them up, and then claim it all as empirical fact. I don't happen to believe that the gaurantees were dreamed up to protect a chosen few, and unless concrete evidence can be produced to the contrary, such claims belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Liam Byrne

Einhard wrote: »

I think the problem is that some people hate FF so much that they allow their imaginations to get the better of them, dream up with scenarios with no evidence to back them up, and then claim it all as empirical fact. I don't happen to believe that the gaurantees were dreamed up to protect a chosen few, and unless concrete evidence can be produced to the contrary, such claims belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However please bear in mind that the hatred of FF that you speak of comes BECAUSE of their actions, and not the oft-voiced defensive lie that the cart was before the horse.

There's no denying the level of debt imposed on us by Lenihan, the secrecy involved, the blinkered "there is no alternative" and the point-blank refusal to impose any logical limits are VERY strange.

Unless concrete evidence can be produced to state that these were a good idea, I think the "NAMA will make a profit", "Anglo is of systemic importance", "too big to fail" and "there is no alternative" belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Of course, if they hadn't been so subversive and secretive about that fateful meeting in Sept 2008, and had actually kept minutes and told the truth about it, I could well have my vague suspicions proven to be unfounded.

It's not my fault that they refused to do this.

oppenheimer1

I would like to see a grand coalition as I feel it could achieve great things bringing the best of both parties together. The reality though is that it will never happen as it would damage the brand of both parties permanently disenfranchising many long time voters. The thought of Enda putting Brian Lenihan into the Taoiseachs chair would be enough to make many tear up their membership.

Would they put country before party? I doubt it.

Biggins

If FG was to go into coalition with FF after the next general election, they will have lost my vote and my families votes for ever.

rightwingdub

Min wrote: »

I wonder if the problem is Eamon Gilmore doesn't have any workable policies or polices...and he was in the workers party, a party that supported the Soviet Union.

Comrade Eamon prefers not to talk about his past in the Workers Party and his love for Eastern European communist dictatorships, its quite embarrassing for him but he prefers to engage in righteous indignation towards FF:mad:

Yes I would support a FG-FF coalition, If people are peeved off they can always vote for either Labour or Sinn Fein.

Its about time there was a proper left-right ideological divide in Ireland. Irish politics needs to become ideological.

Rosahane

Einhard wrote: »

I think such generalisations are both inaccurate and unhelpful. The shitstorm we're in at the moment isn't down to FF skulduggery or crookery, but basic incompetence, and the subordination of good governance to the need for re-election. FG has its fair share of crooks too, and by all accounts, the one who could possibly cost the state more than any other, a certain Michael Lowry, may soon be welcomed back into the fold.

Firstly I don't think it is an inaccurate generalisation. Maybe a bit simplistic and basic as a argument but fundamentally true for all that.

The situation we are in at the moment is down to either skulduggery or incompetence, either Cowen and Lenihan believed all the lies from the bankers or were part of a greater conspiracy with the bankers. I believe that FF are crooks, not stupid!

WRT Lowry and FG crooks, I accept that there have been, and undoubtedly are crooks in FG. There are definitely incompetents. However, unlike FF when wrongdoing is identified it is swiftly dealt with, not defended and excused. The biggest problem I have with FG is that for the last twenty years they are trying to play FF at their own populist game instead of sticking to the principles that had sustained them over the years.

murphaph

FF and FG are indeed ideologically very similar. In any other Western European democracy they would be one and the same party, with a much more left leaning Labour alternative.

I believe, that someday (if Ireland is to move on and mature) that this will need to happen. We need a proper choice, left and right. Populist centrist parties like we've had running the show do nobody any favours long term.

Pete_Cavan

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I would like to see a grand coalition as I feel it could achieve great things bringing the best of both parties together. The reality though is that it will never happen as it would damage the brand of both parties permanently disenfranchising many long time voters. The thought of Enda putting Brian Lenihan into the Taoiseachs chair would be enough to make many tear up their membership.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. There are too many people who vote for one particular party and thats that.

There is a very limited number of quality politicians in this country and neither FF or FG have enough good candidates to fill all, or even most of the roles required if they are in government alone. A coalition between the two would mean less important jobs given to people on the basis of "well who else do you give it". It would mean the dead wood could be cut from both parties and the overall standard would be higher. Unfortunately neither party wants to lose the guaranteed support they receive from certain voters and joining up with the other side would damage this so I cant see it happening.

There are flaws with all our main political parties but I think the biggest problem is the electorate. We dont like anything new or different so it is almost impossible for new parties to establish themselves or for existing parties to evolve. We would prefer to stick with how things have always been and complain about it when this system constantly fails us.
Personally I think a FF FG coalition would be good but only if Enda doesn’t become Taoiseach.

scr123

Within this thread, other threads on the Board and threads on other boards one can detect doubt creeping in to the minds of the ABFF. Not only do the ABFF want FF to lose the next election heavily but many of them want the total destruction of FF. Nothing new about this but as always the people will make sure FF are still around to take over when the usual clowns after bickering endlessly around the cabinet table eventually realise they can agree on nothing ! Yes, the doubts creeping in to the ABFF are well founded because they know damn well its going to be another disaster when they do come to power
People in the ABFF cannot get the message that the differences between FF and the Rest revolve around personality more than politics or ideology. people active in FF and those who support FF are driven by a need to be pragmatic and get results that benefit the country as a whole. We do not claim to be perfect and get many things wrong but overall whatever progress this country has made in the past was under FF government.
So, in practical terms any link between FF and FG is simply a non runner. FG at its core is extreme right wing and even if FF adopted its usual pragmatic approach and considered coalescing with FG the uproar in FG would cause that party to implode.
I like things the way they are, FF suits me because I cannot tolerate extremists and FG and Labour and its cohorts on the left are full of them.
Oh, any Irish person who takes even remotely serious what the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph have to say would be better off heading to UK to join their brethern !

oppenheimer1

scr123 wrote:

Within this thread, other threads on the Board and threads on other boards one can detect doubt creeping in to the minds of the ABFF. Not only do the ABFF want FF to lose the next election heavily but many of them want the total destruction of FF. Nothing new about this but as always the people will make sure FF are still around to take over when the usual clowns after bickering endlessly around the cabinet table eventually realise they can agree on nothing ! Yes, the doubts creeping in to the ABFF are well founded because they know damn well its going to be another disaster when they do come to power
People in the ABFF cannot get the message that the differences between FF and the Rest revolve around personality more than politics or ideology. people active in FF and those who support FF are driven by a need to be pragmatic and get results that benefit the country as a whole. We do not claim to be perfect and get many things wrong but overall whatever progress this country has made in the past was under FF government.
So, in practical terms any link between FF and FG is simply a non runner. FG at its core is extreme right wing and even if FF adopted its usual pragmatic approach and considered coalescing with FG the uproar in FG would cause that party to implode.
I like things the way they are, FF suits me because I cannot tolerate extremists and FG and Labour and its cohorts on the left are full of them.
Oh, any Irish person who takes even remotely serious what the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph have to say would be better off heading to UK to join their brethern !

I would never have said FG's core sat in the far right, indeed I didn't know there was a far right grouping within the party, so can you explain how you determined this? This is a genuine question.

As far as I'm aware there is no FG equivalent of the Tory party Monday Club? Or is there?

murphaph

scr123 wrote: »

Oh, any Irish person who takes even remotely serious what the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph have to say would be better off heading to UK to join their brethern !

Especially when they are blowing the lid on a certain FF senator's expenses, Eh pal?

liammur

scr123 wrote: »

Within this thread, other threads on the Board and threads on other boards one can detect doubt creeping in to the minds of the ABFF. Not only do the ABFF want FF to lose the next election heavily but many of them want the total destruction of FF. Nothing new about this but as always the people will make sure FF are still around to take over when the usual clowns after bickering endlessly around the cabinet table eventually realise they can agree on nothing ! Yes, the doubts creeping in to the ABFF are well founded because they know damn well its going to be another disaster when they do come to power
People in the ABFF cannot get the message that the differences between FF and the Rest revolve around personality more than politics or ideology. people active in FF and those who support FF are driven by a need to be pragmatic and get results that benefit the country as a whole. We do not claim to be perfect and get many things wrong but overall whatever progress this country has made in the past was under FF government.
So, in practical terms any link between FF and FG is simply a non runner. FG at its core is extreme right wing and even if FF adopted its usual pragmatic approach and considered coalescing with FG the uproar in FG would cause that party to implode.
I like things the way they are, FF suits me because I cannot tolerate extremists and FG and Labour and its cohorts on the left are full of them.
Oh, any Irish person who takes even remotely serious what the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph have to say would be better off heading to UK to join their brethern !

?

Liam Byrne

liammur wrote: »

?

They're called FF-coloured glasses. With a special UV reality filter.

Available to a few select individuals by "digging out" a Taoiseach to the tune of a year's salary or so, but you have to sell your soul and become a "staunch" supporter.

irishh_bob

scr123 wrote: »

Within this thread, other threads on the Board and threads on other boards one can detect doubt creeping in to the minds of the ABFF. Not only do the ABFF want FF to lose the next election heavily but many of them want the total destruction of FF. Nothing new about this but as always the people will make sure FF are still around to take over when the usual clowns after bickering endlessly around the cabinet table eventually realise they can agree on nothing ! Yes, the doubts creeping in to the ABFF are well founded because they know damn well its going to be another disaster when they do come to power
People in the ABFF cannot get the message that the differences between FF and the Rest revolve around personality more than politics or ideology. people active in FF and those who support FF are driven by a need to be pragmatic and get results that benefit the country as a whole. We do not claim to be perfect and get many things wrong but overall whatever progress this country has made in the past was under FF government.
So, in practical terms any link between FF and FG is simply a non runner. FG at its core is extreme right wing and even if FF adopted its usual pragmatic approach and considered coalescing with FG the uproar in FG would cause that party to implode.
I like things the way they are, FF suits me because I cannot tolerate extremists and FG and Labour and its cohorts on the left are full of them.
Oh, any Irish person who takes even remotely serious what the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph have to say would be better off heading to UK to join their brethern !

other than leo varadkarr , i cant think of a single fine gael td who is genuinly to the right , let along extreme right

ninty9er

Saying that you will NEVER vote for a party ever again is just as ridiculous as you perceive people who alwyas vote a certian way to act.

Just saying.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Saying that you will NEVER vote for a party ever again is just as ridiculous as you perceive people who alwyas vote a certian way to act.

Just saying.

Ostensibly yes, but not quite.

Saying that you will NEVER vote for a party just because of who they are, or what side they were on 50 years ago, is ridiculous.

Saying that you will NEVER vote for a party that has given you a damn good reason (in fact, about 50 billion and rising reasons) not to is understandable.

Saying that you will always vote a certain way and not being able to give a good, balanced, reason is not.

So the main difference is the reason behind the vote, and since a reason not to may be a logical, defined reason, rather than a ridiculous "staunch support" (either for or against) then there is more credibility behind the reasoning not to.

That said, there is no infinite absolute......personnel change, and who knows - maybe even the ethos of a party might change.

murphaph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

maybe even the ethos of a party might change.

This is what I would hope for with a FG/FF merger. FG are definitely the "cleaner" party and might instill some values in FF that are sadly lacking. The new party could then theoretically attract genuine conservatives.

rightwingdub

Ireland does need a proper left/right ideological divide, thats why I'd welcome a FG/FF coalition.

On the left Labour and Sinn Fein could try and form a merger once SF ditch their Marxist ideology.

liammur

murphaph wrote: »

This is what I would hope for with a FG/FF merger. FG are definitely the "cleaner" party and might instill some values in FF that are sadly lacking. The new party could then theoretically attract genuine conservatives.

Ideally FF would go the way of PD's. Have a strong labour, and a strong FG/(FF, with little influence as possible). And I'm only judging FF on their record.

Laminations

murphaph wrote: »

This is what I would hope for with a FG/FF merger. FG are definitely the "cleaner" party and might instill some values in FF that are sadly lacking. The new party could then theoretically attract genuine conservatives.

FF need to clean out their own party before going back into government (with any partner). Until FF are cleaner and meaner with an ethical backbone and a swift response to members who want a fiddle and a free ride then they will sully any party that goes into government with them. Until they are reformed, any party that joins with them could be seen as condoning their antics. The Green Party were vocal opponents to the shenanigans of FF when they were in opposition but now they resort to tweeting their disagreements rather than standing up against corruption and codology.

FF need a spell in opposition to reform. If FG were to 'prop up' FF come next election, the majority of this country who want to see the back of FF would revolt (if we do such things), FG would lose massive amounts of support and respect.

liammur

Correct, or the electorate should force the alternative i.e. go the way of the PD's

jmayo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I reckon whatever so-called "reporter" spouted this rubbish is just trying to damage FG's chances of getting votes......not sure whether that means they're supporters of FF or Labour.

But I'll be getting whatever FG candidate lands on my doorstep to swear point-blank that they won't sell their souls like the Greens did........and if necessary I'll record it.

And if they refuse to unequivocally and explicitly rule out going in with FF, they won't get my vote.

I'd urge everyone to do the same; and I'd urge any FG members on here to take back to their cumanns or whatever they're called that unless Kenny comes out and rules this out - unvaguely and not in the way Trevor Sargent did - then they're getting feck-all votes.

Supposedly this is the disenchanted ones in the FG party and not the leadership.
Kenny is a lot more wiley than people give him credit for and there is no way he would want to join forces with a bunch who are now seen as arrogant greedy unethical gobdaws.
He comes from a section of the party that would see ff as being the mortal enemy.

On the other hand the malcontents (e.g deasy, creighton, hayes) know they won't get any of the spoils of ministerial ranks if/when Kenny becomes taoiseach and they would be willing to talk to anyone that will sooth their egos and demands.
Varadker could possibly be there not for greed for power, but from a more right wing perspective.

On the other side ffers are getting desperate and would sell their mammies in order to keep their seats and the expenses.
Hell look how the likes of mattie mcgrath has been positioning himself as a member of the opposition for the last couple of years.

Einhard wrote: »

I think such generalisations are both inaccurate and unhelpful. The shitstorm we're in at the moment isn't down to FF skulduggery or crookery, but basic incompetence, and the subordination of good governance to the need for re-election. FG has its fair share of crooks too, and by all accounts, the one who could possibly cost the state more than any other, a certain Michael Lowry, may soon be welcomed back into the fold.

Ahh the nice ff touch of trying to tar everyone with the same brush :rolleyes:
Yeah it was all incompetence and nothing to do with cronyism, putting their own position and that of their supporters ahead of those of the people of the state. :rolleyes:
Or do you reckon all those building incentives and tax breaks were all incompetence ?

Einhard wrote: »

I think the problem is that some people hate FF so much that they allow their imaginations to get the better of them, dream up with scenarios with no evidence to back them up, and then claim it all as empirical fact. I don't happen to believe that the gaurantees were dreamed up to protect a chosen few, and unless concrete evidence can be produced to the contrary, such claims belong in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Maybe we hate them so much because they have screwed up our lives with their policies that primarily benefitted their supporters.
Maybe we hate always having to pay for the messes that they create.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I would like to see a grand coalition as I feel it could achieve great things bringing the best of both parties together. The reality though is that it will never happen as it would damage the brand of both parties permanently disenfranchising many long time voters. The thought of Enda putting Brian Lenihan into the Taoiseachs chair would be enough to make many tear up their membership.

Would they put country before party? I doubt it.

Why should he put lenihan into that chair or are you so deluded with sycophancy that you reckon he is the only man capable of that role ?

I would not agree with Kenny putting lenihan into any ministerial position firstly not becuase he is ff, but because he is inept and has cost us taxpayers dearly.
Secondly I would not want him to put lenihan in any position since the man is of low moral character as he supporters unethical behaviour by fellow legal professionals. :mad:

scr123 wrote: »

So, in practical terms any link between FF and FG is simply a non runner. FG at its core is extreme right wing and even if FF adopted its usual pragmatic approach and considered coalescing with FG the uproar in FG would cause that party to implode.

Yeah they are making lots of stormtrooper uniforms down in Mayo for the day when Kenny takes over.
Then ffers like yourself will be rounded up
Now try and get some sleep

I like things the way they are, FF suits me because I cannot tolerate extremists and FG and Labour and its cohorts on the left are full of them.
Oh, any Irish person who takes even remotely serious what the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph have to say would be better off heading to UK to join their brethern !

Ah the old ff solution ot discontent, social and economic problems.
Just get more peopel to emigrate ehhh. :rolleyes:

murphaph wrote: »

This is what I would hope for with a FG/FF merger. FG are definitely the "cleaner" party and might instill some values in FF that are sadly lacking. The new party could then theoretically attract genuine conservatives.

No that won't happen.
As can be seen by what ff did to PDs and the yellows (no longer green), they suck the life out of other parties and leave them a useless husk devoid of principles, ethics, policies and a support base.

They did damege to the Labour party that has taken a decade to reverse.

scr123

Lets get serious about this thread with a few relevant questions


Who do religious fundamentalists in this country vote for

Who do pro british lets rejoin the commonwealth vote for

Who do those who want to slash social welfare vote for

Who do those who would slash public service numbers vote for

Who do those who have no problem wiping out criminals vote for

Who do those who believe in locking away criminals and throwing away the key vote for

Who do those who believe the Iraq War was right and Bush can do no wrong vote for

Who in this country would be at home with the lunatics in the US Republican Party

I know one thing for sure, if there was a sniff of people like that associated with FF I would have serious problems as to who to vote for !!!

Laminations

scr123 wrote: »

Lets get serious about this thread with a few relevant questions


Who do religious fundamentalists in this country vote for

Do we have those here?

Who do pro british lets rejoin the commonwealth vote for

David Norris is a FG voter?

Who do those who want to slash social welfare vote for

No one will 'slash' anything, but cuts need to be made, and now you are acquainted with a 'tough decision'

Who do those who would slash public service numbers vote for

See above comment

Who do those who have no problem wiping out criminals vote for

You don't want to wipe out criminals? Unless by wipe out you think FG will bring in death camps :rolleyes:

Who do those who believe in locking away criminals and throwing away the key vote for

Punishment that fits the crime, what an alien concept.... didn't FF Dermot Ahern say he was going to have a zero tolerance approach?

Who do those who believe the Iraq War was right and Bush can do no wrong vote for

Huh?

Who in this country would be at home with the lunatics in the US Republican Party

Double huh?

I know one thing for sure, if there was a sniff of people like that associated with FF I would have serious problems as to who to vote for !!!

There is a whiff of many types of blackguards associated with FF which you don't have a problem with.

jmayo

scr123 wrote: »

Lets get serious about this thread with a few relevant questions

Who do religious fundamentalists in this country vote for

I don't know, but I do know what party's (ff) minister and taoiseach gave a free pass to the catholic church in terms of paying it's fair share to the victims of child abuse.
What party's (ff) minister for justice came up with a blasphemy law ?

Was it not FG party that went against the chruches trying to bring in abortion, divorce etc ?

scr123 wrote: »

Who do pro british lets rejoin the commonwealth vote for

Who do those who want to slash social welfare vote for

Who do those who would slash public service numbers vote for

Well we know what party believes in creating lots of public sector jobs for the boys now don't we. :rolleyes:
Hail to the qaungoes and the hse. :rolleyes:

scr123 wrote: »

Who do those who have no problem wiping out criminals vote for

Who do those who believe in locking away criminals and throwing away the key vote for

And what would be wrong with that or do you think it is ok for attempted murderers and rapists to be free after 8 odd years ?

Perhaps you should tell that to the Swiss family who lost their only child or to the family of the lady in Carlow who now sees her raper and would be killer out free.

scr123 wrote: »

Who do those who believe the Iraq War was right and Bush can do no wrong vote for

You do know Bush has retired ?

scr123 wrote: »

I know one thing for sure, if there was a sniff of people like that associated with FF I would have serious problems as to who to vote for !!!

Now here are a few for you ...

What party condones high ranking members lying on sworn affidavits to the second highest court in the state ?

What party condones fraudently cheating on expenses paid for by us the citizens ?

What party condones tax evasion by it's high ranking members ?

What party condones corruption and fruad by it's high ranking members ?

Now answeres on a postcard to :
b ahern
someone elses house
Drumcondra
Dublin 9

oppenheimer1

jmayo wrote: »

Why should he put lenihan into that chair or are you so deluded with sycophancy that you reckon he is the only man capable of that role ?

I would not agree with Kenny putting lenihan into any ministerial position firstly not becuase he is ff, but because he is inept and has cost us taxpayers dearly.
Secondly I would not want him to put lenihan in any position since the man is of low moral character as he supporters unethical behaviour by fellow legal professionals. :mad:

Hold your horses, the only reason I suggested Lenihan, is that after the election, health permitting, it is most likely he will be leader of Fianna Fáil. Of course there are other very able individuals within the FF party that would be well capable of leading the country.

Lenihan hasn't been implicated in any wrongdoing so I cannot see how you consider him to be of low moral character... Or is this the tired lets bash Brian line over O'Dea??

liammur

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Hold your horses, the only reason I suggested Lenihan, is that after the election, health permitting, it is most likely he will be leader of Fianna Fáil. Of course there are other very able individuals within the FF party that would be well capable of leading the country.

Lenihan hasn't been implicated in any wrongdoing so I cannot see how you consider him to be of low moral character... Or is this the tired lets bash Brian line over O'Dea??

Enlighten us as to whom these other very able individuals within FF are?

Lenihan imo is certainly not up to the finance role, but the rest of what you say of him is true.

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

Lets get serious about this thread with a few relevant questions

Who do those who believe in locking away criminals and throwing away the key vote for

I know one thing for sure, if there was a sniff of people like that associated with FF I would have serious problems as to who to vote for !!!

Personally, I have no objection to the part in bold.

But you're right on one thing; FF definitely don't believe in disciplining criminals!

I know one thing for sure too; you left out "Who do people who condone corruption and stroke-pulling vote for", and I have serious problems with people who vote for those.