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Question about license fee

  • 17-08-2010 06:08PM
    #1
    jpsr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭


    There is one thing i cant understand about the fee. I pay sky which has RTE, I also pay for a tv license, so why should i have to pay for a tv license when i pay sky, or another way. RTE should be free to air on astra like it is on the aerial if i pay a tv license.


Comments

  • #2
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    You understand nothing about it. You are paying for a licence to have a tv, not RTÉ. RTÉ cannot afford to go FTA on Astra.


  • #3
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    You understand nothing about it. .
    Welcome to the broadcasting forum jpsr.
    Questioning of the licence tax is not liked around here.
    Pay up like a good little sheep and don't ask questions.


  • #4
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,460 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Sky is a foreign company. Ireland doesn't even get the VAT.

    You might as well expect to not have to pay TV licence because you buy DVDs. You need a TV licence to watch Sky, UPC or free TV via aerial.


  • #5
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭STB


    jpsr wrote: »
    There is one thing i cant understand about the fee. I pay sky which has RTE, I also pay for a tv license, so why should i have to pay for a tv license when i pay sky, or another way. RTE should be free to air on astra like it is on the aerial if i pay a tv license.


    You do not need to subscribe to $ky to get RTE.
    mikom wrote: »
    Welcome to the broadcasting forum jpsr.
    Questioning of the licence tax is not liked around here.
    Pay up like a good little sheep and don't ask questions.

    Its the law, get over it.


  • #6
    jpsr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭jpsr


    I was just asking a question, something to talk about, Iam not crying about paying for it, What's up all your holes, Very quick to defend RTE.


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  • #7
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,460 ✭✭✭✭watty


    We are not defending RTE. Just pointing that the fact you pay Sky for anything isn't relevent. RTE does get most of the TV licence, which isn't anything like enough to fund a PSB, but ultimately it's not an RTE subscription but a tax on the ability to view ANY TV broadcast from any source. RTE started TV 31st Dec 1962, the TV licence brought in during 1960 and was mooted years before that.

    The current situation is thus 40 years old and nothing to do with Sky.


  • #8
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    jpsr wrote: »
    I was just asking a question, something to talk about, Iam not crying about paying for it, What's up all your holes, Very quick to defend RTE.

    Who defended RTÉ? That's right, nobody did.


  • #9
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    jpsr wrote: »
    There is one thing i cant understand about the fee. I pay sky which has RTE, I also pay for a tv license, so why should i have to pay for a tv license when i pay sky, or another way. RTE should be free to air on astra like it is on the aerial if i pay a tv license.

    Maybe you should ask another question. I think it is too simple an answer just to say "Because it's the law" but I think the question is too easy for anyone to answer in any other way.

    When you pay Sky what do you get?


  • #10
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    Elmo wrote: »
    Maybe you should ask another question. I think it is too simple an answer just to say "Because it's the law"

    Why dress it up? It is a legal requirement to have a television licence if you have any equipment capable of receiving a television signal.


  • #11
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    Why dress it up? It is a legal requirement to have a television licence if you have any equipment capable of receiving a television signal.

    Yeah but the question isn't really about that, now is it OP?

    JPSR want's us to slam RTÉ in the same manner that Mikom would, and TBH if either want to do that they can go ahead, however I managed to miss out on the previously closed Licence Fee Thread.

    There are problems with RTÉ but generally the same arguments against the Licence lack real criticism of the issue. Rather they refer always to the BBC a massive corporation which can utilize billions of pounds to support their commercial arm (or to put it another way money that is well earned ???? but only because they have huge public moneys). RTÉ don't provide local radio, a decision taken by government to allow independent radio stations develop, unlike in the UK where commercial radio has far more pressure from its publicly funded local radio services. With the 3 national UK services getting just 11% of the audience can you imagine the outcry from Communicorp and UTV Radio if RTÉ got Local licences?


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  • #12
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Elmo wrote: »
    Yeah but the question isn't really about that, now is it OP?

    JPSR want's us to slam RTÉ in the same manner that Mikom would, and TBH if either want to do that they can go ahead, however I managed to miss out on the previously closed Licence Fee Thread.

    There are problems with RTÉ but generally the same arguments against the Licence lack real criticism of the issue. Rather they refer always to the BBC a massive corporation which can utilize billions of pounds to support their commercial arm (or to put it another way money that is well earned ???? but only because they have huge public moneys). RTÉ don't provide local radio, a decision taken by government to allow independent radio stations develop, unlike in the UK where commercial radio has far more pressure from its publicly funded local radio services. With the 3 national UK services getting just 11% of the audience can you imagine the outcry from Communicorp and UTV Radio if RTÉ got Local licences?
    Looking back on broadcasting history in the country, I would say that the superpirate era of the 1980's came about because of establishment dithering over local/regional radio. RTÉ had their Comminuty Radio roadshow but that was it. I remember asking a few years ago if any other PSB in Europe which served a national population of more than a million people had either no local radio or local opt-outs of national stations other than Ireland, and no one could think of one. Even Iceland (pop. circa 320,000) has regional opt-outs. However, as you say an attempt for RTÉ now to launch a local radio strand would be met by fierce opposition from commercial operators, quite a few of which are struggling to get by as it is. Local/Regional TV is perhaps more viable, and RTÉ at least has experimented a bit with this in the past.

    Re: RTÉ on Sky. The transmission of RTÉ along with TV3 and TG4 on Sky is pretty much all handled and paid for by Sky except maybe the electric bill for the uplink at Donnybrook, the end result is that it costs the three terrestrial broadcasters pennies, but distribution of the channels is at the mercy of Sky. The Astra 2D satellite that these transmission come from are reputed to be among the most expensive to hire capacity on in Europe, and it's full up anyway. Any capacity left currently at 28.2/.5 uses Europe-wide beams that even the mighty BBC had to encrypt to protect territorial programming rights.


  • #13
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    lawhec wrote: »
    Looking back on broadcasting history in the country, I would say that the superpirate era of the 1980's came about because of establishment dithering over local/regional radio. RTÉ had their Comminuty Radio roadshow but that was it. I remember asking a few years ago if any other PSB in Europe which served a national population of more than a million people had either no local radio or local opt-outs of national stations other than Ireland, and no one could think of one. Even Iceland (pop. circa 320,000) has regional opt-outs. However, as you say an attempt for RTÉ now to launch a local radio strand would be met by fierce opposition from commercial operators, quite a few of which are struggling to get by as it is. Local/Regional TV is perhaps more viable, and RTÉ at least has experimented a bit with this in the past.

    AFAIK didn't the chairperson of RTÉ at the launch of RTÉ 2 in 1978 ask to role out local radio???? RTÉ Radio did have an opt out for Cork. You also can't blame RTÉ on government dithering, many of the ILRs should be proud of the work carried out by Ray Burke in the Late 1980s. :rolleyes:


  • #14
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Elmo wrote: »
    AFAIK didn't the chairperson of RTÉ at the launch of RTÉ 2 in 1978 ask to role out local radio???? RTÉ Radio did have an opt out for Cork. You also can't blame RTÉ on government dithering, many of the ILRs should be proud of the work carried out by Ray Burke in the Late 1980s. :rolleyes:
    IIRC, RTE, in the early 80's, repeatedly insisted that they were committed to providing local/community radio and it shouldn't be in the hands of independents.

    TBH, I believe there was dithering on behalf of RTE who never really were as committed as they claimed to be. After the introduction of the 1988 bill, RTE were supposed to roll out their own local stations but this was soon dropped.


  • #15
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    IIRC, RTE, in the early 80's, repeatedly insisted that they were committed to providing local/community radio and it shouldn't be in the hands of independents.

    TBH, I believe there was dithering on behalf of RTE who never really were as committed as they claimed to be. After the introduction of the 1988 bill, RTE were supposed to roll out their own local stations but this was soon dropped.

    And next your going to tell me that the dropping of RTÉ Local services had nothing to do with the pressure that they were under from Ray Burke?


  • #16
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Elmo wrote: »
    And next your going to tell me that the dropping of RTÉ Local services had nothing to do with the pressure that they were under from Ray Burke?

    No, sorry, I meant to say i agree with you there....my bad.:)


  • #17
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    No, sorry, I meant to say i agree with you there....my bad.:)

    I amn't saying you should not disagree with my point. What would be the point. However to explain....

    In 1988 RTÉ did have political pressure from Minister for Justice and Communications Ray Burke, as we know.

    I am glad that RTÉ don't provide localized versions of their schedule on either TV or Radio and since there are independents doing it on Radio why should RTÉ enter the market would their competition help improve the quality of local content?


  • #18
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭STB


    I dont think the lack of local radio has anything to do with the role of a PSB in this day and age or indeed the arguement. RTE dont have the cash to do it, 20 years have passed and the ILRs are doing it well. On a national basis 2fm are very profitable and self sustaining without licence fee money.

    In comparison the BBC have shed loads of money and can do what they want really.

    In the era of the ipod and mp3 player radio listenership remains very strong with 86% percent listening to the radio. The independents are doing local radio fine. They have to, otherwise they wouldnt survive.

    If its not broke.....


  • #19
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    IIRC, RTE, in the early 80's, repeatedly insisted that they were committed to providing local/community radio and it shouldn't be in the hands of independents..

    Fortunately their attempts to preserve their monopoly didnt square with EU competition law.


  • #20
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    STB wrote: »
    2fm are very profitable and self sustaining without licence fee money.


    If its not broke.....

    1.67M loss last year


  • #21
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Fortunately their attempts to preserve their monopoly didnt square with EU competition law.
    For which we should be ever grateful.....


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  • #22
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    1.67M loss last year

    A profit the year before (of 3.5million) which they gave over to RTÉ Radio 1, but they probably should have kept it for 2FM or the digital stations.

    Is there anything in their annual report to give us information on the kind of money spend on Digital services?

    I think this year to look at any companies figures would not be a reliable source to suggest how well they are doing. At the beginning of the year RTÉ's End was Now according to the Independent, 27million loss seems insignificant to the suggested bankruptcy.


  • #23
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Elmo wrote: »

    Is there anything in their annual report to give us information on the kind of money spend on Digital services?

    Press reports (about 2 years ago) stated that RTE were spending approx. €250,000 on the digital radio services with "voluntary" input from existing RTE staff.


  • #24
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    BrianD wrote: »
    Press reports (about 2 years ago) stated that RTE were spending approx. €250,000 on the digital radio services with "voluntary" input from existing RTE staff.

    What about infrastructure?


  • #25
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭STB


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    1.67M loss last year

    Yes thanks for that. Must be the first time in many many years. 3.5million surplus last year will cover this of course, so they are still paying their way. 2010s annual report will be interesting.

    I wonder how radio stations in general did in 2009. Economic downturn has hit all advertising bar the internet which has seen dramatic increases.


  • #26
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    STB wrote: »
    Yes thanks for that. Must be the first time in many many years. 3.5million surplus last year will cover this of course, so they are still paying their way.
    Not if the money went to propping up Radio 1 !


  • #27
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Fuzzy Clam wrote: »
    Not if the money went to propping up Radio 1 !

    RTÉ have always try to use the surplus (if any) of 2FM to prop up its more PSB services. IMO the surplus of 2008 should be much more evenly divided between each of the radio and television services, rather than just RTÉ Radio 1. But really that is down to how you look at how the say they administer the licence fee.

    According to RTÉ, RTÉ NL, 2FM and RTÉ Publishing do not receive any funds from the Licence Fee and are self funding. However.....

    Each activity that RTÉ suggests does not receive funds in some way is paid for by all of their other PSB services. RTÉ 2FM and Publishing each receive content from both RTÉ TV and Radio e.g. Podcasts, News, RTÉ Player, Current Affairs and everything else that is paid for by the Licence Fee. (Indirectly).

    As for RTÉ NL well it seems to be the only profitable part of the organisation this year and hence is more likely to be sold. But then RTÉ Television and Radio possibly wouldn't be paying the same amount of money to RTÉ NL as they currently are.

    It seems that RTÉ Television and Radio seem to pay far more than then TV3, TG4 or Today FM for the use of the network.


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