Iarnród Éireann -maybe three of you can, maybe none of you can - rant

L'Enfer du Nord · 13-08-2010 03:00PM #1

Last Saturday, I went down to Galway station with my bike to get the 9.05 train to Dublin. Bought a ticket for me and a ticket for my bike an joined the queue on the platform, I saw a group of 4 other guys with bikes ahead of me, kind of hanging around the platform, not getting on the train. When I got to the head of the queue I was told there was no room on the train for my bike. I assumed that this was related to the other guys taking the ‘minimum three bikes’ quoted by Iarnród Éireann. When I went back to the ticket office for a refund, a member of Iarnród Éireann staff skipped ahead of me to try and get a refund for the four other guys, who it emerge weren’t being allowed on the train either. I asked the Iarnród Éireann Guy, why no bikes were allowed on. He said he didn’t know, I’d have to ask the supervisor. I then asked the women in the ticket office, she rang some one up and said - “there’s no room for bikes on this train, or the next one” I said why? She said “There’s no room”, I said is it because there’s no carriage with racks, she said “yes”.
I’ve rung Iarnród Éireann customer services about this and they’re sticking to the ‘minimum three bikes’ as the only information they have.

I’m guessing what’s happening is that some train’s are assembled without carriages that can carry bikes. You can’t tell in advance from timetables which trains can or can’t carry bikes.

So basically if you want to take your bike on the train, no matter how early you turn up. Its pot luck if they’ll take your bike, even if you are the only one with a bike.

Essentially there may or may not be a service available for you and there’s no way of knowing in advance. As far as I’m concerned this lottery is almost like not offering the service fullstop. Its also a regression on the service up to 3-4 years ago when there was a guards’ wagon.

If they didn’t take bikes on trains then they’d have to defend that policy. Instead they have the veneer of a service, which is actually impossible to use if you have any sort of schedule to keep to.

Imagine if the toll booths on motorways were open 24 hours a day(which they are), but might be closed for 6 hours stretch every now and then!

I asked the customer services person several time why this happened and how I can avoid it happening again by finding out in advance. But she was sticking rigidly to the “Intercity services Iarnród Éireann can carry a minimum of three bicycles, is the only information I have line”.

After a life time of shoulder shrugging I’ve had enough! At a minimum the time tables should show which trains carry bikes and they should make 100% sure those train always carry bikes, preferably more than 3.
Any suggestions how I should follow this up, I’ve put-in a complaint to through an Iarnród Éireann on-line form. No word back yet. I’m basically livid that despite Govt. rhetoric about integrated transport, etc. we’re now in a much worse state as regards carrying your bike on a train than we were before these new trains came along.

I wonder is it possible to FOI the cack-handed decision making process that allowed this.

Piercemeear · 13-08-2010 03:04PM

I'm about to try get my bike on the train to Tralee this evening. I kind of wish I hadn't read this.

Orion · 13-08-2010 03:06PM

It's your typical semi-state. No accountability to anyone and no power over useless staff because of the union. You will never hear back from that complaint I'm certain.

There's one way I thought of to piss them off at the very least. Complain to the ASA. They are advertising that they can carry three bikes but you now have emperical evidence that this is bull. The ASA can force them to remove that. Then we're in a situation where they don't carry bikes officially and I'll bet my mortgage that there's an EU rule somewhere that they would be breaking in that situation.

Captain Havoc · 13-08-2010 03:06PM

I'm sure by now everybody knows I hate Iarnród Éireann and all forms of public transport in Ireland. The staff here in Kilkenny station are lovely and on the trains are generally lovely but beyond that you end up in pooh. There is secure location on all the newer trains for bikes. If there's not a bike rack on the first/last carriage for bikes there are those storage spaces beside the disabbled jacks. These are very simple to open. Next time you're told there's no racks ask if the storage beside the disabled jacks is full, there's even a hanger there for a bike.
TTFN

kenmc · 13-08-2010 03:08PM

Surely you can carry it as "luggage" if it's in a black bag, with the wheels removed? Probably don't even need to have a ticket for it then either. :rolleyes:

13-08-2010 03:14PM

IÉ are just pathetic. On the other hand, I got the Enterprise from Belfast down to Dublin in April. Didn't need to book the bike in advance, staff were very helpful, cost nothing extra for putting the bike in the van at the front of the train.

L'Enfer du Nord · 13-08-2010 03:15PM

kenmc wrote: »

Surely you can carry it as "luggage" if it's in a black bag, with the wheels removed? Probably don't even need to have a ticket for it then either. :rolleyes:

According to a letter in the Irish Times this was the advice given by Iarnród Éireann to a woman who wanted to travel by train with a bike and shock horror some friends also with bikes!

This is the kind of work-a-round instititutional stupidity I'd expect in communist era Poland not in a representative democracy with a 'green' party in government.

doozerie · 13-08-2010 03:19PM

I traveled to and from Galway by train, with a bike, a couple of months back. Knowing that I couldn't book a ticket for my bike in advance (another example of the uselessness of the service!) I rang Heuston station to ask them whether they could tell me if there were bike spaces available before I committed to going to the station by bike. All they could tell me was that they couldn't tell me, basically. As per your experience you have to turn up on the day and hope for the best. They did say though that there "shouldn't be a problem" which is an Irish answer to an Irish problem ("you might die but sure you'll probably be fine so just work away"). Likewise at the Galway end the person at the ticket counter said the very same thing i.e. you might be stranded with your bike, but it'll probably be fine.

As it happens, there were 2 other bikes on the same train as me on the way back from Galway. The carriage had space for only 2 (which I thought was the maximum that they committed to) so the third guy left his bike leaning against the outside of the train driver's door. It duly fell over when the driver, or someone with him, popped out at one stage. I expected there to be a scene when that happened but he just shrugged, stepped over it, and continued on his way.

I agree with you, there is absolutely no sense to the service and there never has been. Years ago I used to travel between Dublin and Cork quite often with a bike, when there was a guard's van. Even then it was problematic as sometimes the guard's van in Cork station was beyond the end of the platform. Having to stand at track level and hoist my bike above my head into the guard's van once was enough for me so each other time I just wheeled my bike onto the last carriage at the platform and wheeled it down to the guard's van, invariably having to go through first class to get there. More than once I was confronted by an Iarnrod Eireann employee who told me I couldn't do this but when I asked them for an alternative they usually relented.

"Service" is too kind a word for what they offically offer to cyclists, the only reason it ever seemed to work/works is due to some of their employees choosing to be flexible and bending the official rules now and again.

langdang · 13-08-2010 03:19PM

kenmc wrote: »

Surely you can carry it as "luggage" if it's in a black bag, with the wheels removed? Probably don't even need to have a ticket for it then either. :rolleyes:

All bets are off on Planet Siptune, the Unionoids are a strange race, their logic is beyond analysis by a normal well adjusted human mind...

oflahero · 13-08-2010 03:33PM

The following is the most up-to-date information I have, not directly from Iarnrod Eireann but from someone in regular correspondence with them. It would seem that the Dublin-Galway route as indicated above is indeed pot luck as to what class of railcar is scheduled for that departure. If it's not the version with racks, you're out of luck and there's no way of telling beforehand:

No problem on Dublin/Cork trains (except 0800 and 0900 ex-Dublin and 1130 and 1230 ex-Cork) and connection to Limerick, and Dublin/Belfast. Loads of room in the guards van.

On routes from Dublin to Galway, Tralee (including connections from Mallow), Westport and Waterford, and direct Dublin/Limerick trains, along with the trains to/from Cork mentioned above there ought to be space for two bikes in racks and one in a press on each train – but not all trains are kitted out with the racks as yet. If there are two 3-car railcars joined together rather than 1 3-piece or 1 6-piece then there would be space for 6 bikes – but that is pot luck! The only exception is the 0520 Tralee/Mallow and 2100 Cork/Tralee which do not carry bikes.

On Dublin/Sligo the same (3 bikes) applies except for the following trains when no bikes can be carried as they are operated by commuter railcars:

Monday/Thursday:
0905 ex-Dublin; 1300 ex-Sligo

Fridays:
0905 and 1305 ex-Dublin; 1300 and 1700 ex-Sligo

Saturdays:
1305 ex-Dublin and 1700 ex-Sligo

Sundays:
1305 and 1505 ex-Dublin; 1700 and 1900 ex-Sligo

Dublin/Rosslare:

Same restriction applies on Dublin/Rosslare trains. Trains that operate to/from Wexford, Arklow or Gorey only do not carry bikes. Only those going all the way to Rosslare.

Should not be a problem on Galway-Limerick, Limerick-Limerick Junction-Waterford-Rosslare, or Limerick-Ballybrophy but again it depends on racking (if they are full or not) and the mood of the checker/guard.

Ant · 13-08-2010 03:38PM

langdang wrote: »

All bets are off on Planet Siptune, the Unionoids are a strange race, their logic is beyond analysis by a normal well adjusted human mind...

I think you'll find, if you talk to them, that most of the Irish Rail workers themselves despair at having to deal with the problems caused by bad management decisions. Any time I've brought a bike on to a train or Bus Éireann, the staff were apologetic for the lousy service provision and customer unfriendly regulations that they were supposed to be enforcing. Though you do find some ignorant and/or apathetic individuals, the workers generally try to be accommodating.

penexpers · 13-08-2010 03:44PM

oflahero wrote: »

The following is the most up-to-date information I have, not directly from Iarnrod Eireann but from someone in regular correspondence with them. It would seem that the Dublin-Galway route as indicated above is indeed pot luck as to what class of railcar is scheduled for that departure. If it's not the version with racks, you're out of luck and there's no way of telling beforehand:

It's nothing to do with class of railcar (all trains to Galway are now the new railcars) - it's purely down to which railcars have racks fitted or not.

When IR got the new trains, they didn't have any racks at all for bikes (only the storage cupboard beside the disabled toilets). When this was pointed out (by RUI amongst others) they started a project to retrofit racks. Only they never got around to retrofitting them to all railcars for some reason.

There is at least one six car set (one of the first class ones) and a good few three car sets without the racks (I've been taking notes of the numbers).

There should always be room for at least one bike though.

langdang · 13-08-2010 03:52PM

penexpers wrote: »

Only they never got around to retrofitting them to all railcars for some reason.

did the drivers demand extra pay for the "extra responsibility" ? http://m.rte.ie/news/2005/0814/dart.html

Cabaal · 13-08-2010 03:55PM

langdang wrote: »

did the drivers demand extra pay for the "extra responsibility" ? http://m.rte.ie/news/2005/0814/dart.html

I've heard it all now (thought its 5 years old now) :rolleyes:
So if they drive shorter trains will they then take a pay cut for less responsibility?

Bloody unions and this type of lark

langdang · 13-08-2010 03:57PM

Cabaal wrote: »

So if they drive shorter trains will they then take a pay cut for less responsibility?
Bloody unions and this type of lark

I presume that, very much like benchmarking of the public sector, it only works one way. Such are the laws of physics and mathematics on planet Siptune.

Chips Lovell · 13-08-2010 03:59PM

I think its the management rather than the unions' fault that a.) there isn't sufficient provision for carrying bikes and b.) there is no way of knowing that there will be a slot free in advance.

droidus · 13-08-2010 04:03PM

Rabble, rabble, rabble. Bloody unions ruining our fine country.

Sure they're the cause of all our ills aren't they? :rolleyes:

CheGuedara · 13-08-2010 04:05PM

Piercemeear wrote: »

I'm about to try get my bike on the train to Tralee this evening. I kind of wish I hadn't read this.

Been there, done that, had the rant.

Honda Accord Tourers FTW

[If you read really carefully between the lines you can just about guess what happened. ]

langdang · 13-08-2010 04:05PM

droidus wrote: »

Rabble, rabble, rabble. Bloody unions ruining our fine country.

Sure they're the cause of all our ills aren't they? :rolleyes:

Careful now, you'll de-rail the thread....:pac:

Doctor Bob · 13-08-2010 04:12PM

langdang wrote: »

I presume that, very much like benchmarking of the public sector, it only works one way. Such are the laws of physics and mathematics on planet Siptune.

The private sector isn't immune from this mentality either, you know- upward only rent reviews, anyone?

[/touchy public servant.;)]

Chips Lovell · 13-08-2010 04:14PM

L'Enfer du Nord · 13-08-2010 04:18PM

The heart of this problem is that IR bought a lot of new trains with little or no provision for bicycles. The retro fitting also seems to be a inefficent use of space. I don't think the individual member or collective union can be blamed for this. Somebody or a number of people signed off on the purchase. The blame lies with these guys, or their predecessors:

http://www.cie.ie/about_us/board_members.asp#group

http://www.cie.ie/about_us/shareholder_information.asp

I doubt the Union give a dam about bikes. I've never had any problems with idividual members of staff.

SerialComplaint · 13-08-2010 04:20PM

langdang wrote: »

All bets are off on Planet Siptune, the Unionoids are a strange race, their logic is beyond analysis by a normal well adjusted human mind...

Macros42 wrote: »

It's your typical semi-state. No accountability to anyone and no power over useless staff because of the union. You will never hear back from that complaint I'm certain.

Is there any slightest hint anywhere that this issue is actually related to trade unions? Or do we just blame everything on trade unions without having any idea of the facts?

Macros42 wrote: »

There's one way I thought of to piss them off at the very least. Complain to the ASA. They are advertising that they can carry three bikes but you now have emperical evidence that this is bull. The ASA can force them to remove that. Then we're in a situation where they don't carry bikes officially and I'll bet my mortgage that there's an EU rule somewhere that they would be breaking in that situation.

You're way of the mark. There is no ASA in Ireland. There is an ASAI. It is a self-appointed group with absolutely no power. It only looks at actual adverts, and I haven't seen Iarnrod Eireann advertising anything to do with bikes recently.

langdang · 13-08-2010 04:25PM

Good night and God bless, you've been a great crowd.
I'm off to my private sector mansion to light my private sector fire with some of my private sector bonus...

KC61 · 13-08-2010 04:27PM

langdang wrote: »

did the drivers demand extra pay for the "extra responsibility" ? http://m.rte.ie/news/2005/0814/dart.html

They did not get the pay rise that they sought or any pay rise for driving the longer trains.

It was nothing to do with unions or the like. It was basically a design fault. The trains were designed with insufficient bike space and that is the problem plain and simple.

Piercemeear · 13-08-2010 04:38PM

oflahero wrote: »

On routes from Dublin to Galway, Tralee (including connections from Mallow), Westport and Waterford, and direct Dublin/Limerick trains, along with the trains to/from Cork mentioned above there ought to be space for two bikes in racks and one in a press on each train – but not all trains are kitted out with the racks as yet. If there are two 3-car railcars joined together rather than 1 3-piece or 1 6-piece then there would be space for 6 bikes – but that is pot luck! The only exception is the 0520 Tralee/Mallow and 2100 Cork/Tralee which do not carry bikes.

This means that the 1900 train I was going to get to Tralee after work will drop me in Mallow with my bike and then I won't be able to take the Mallow/Tralee connection (which passes through Mallow at 0930)?

Should I just wait until tomorrow? I don't want to get stranded in Mallow at half nine.

Blast this country.

Piercemeear · 13-08-2010 04:42PM

CheGuedara wrote: »

Been there, done that, had the rant.

Honda Accord Tourers FTW

[If you read really carefully between the lines you can just about guess what happened. ]

I'm sorry, I'm really tired and I can't read between the lines. Since I'm leaving for the train station if an hour if I'm leaving it would be great if you could be explicit.

axer · 13-08-2010 04:47PM

kenmc wrote: »

Surely you can carry it as "luggage" if it's in a black bag, with the wheels removed? Probably don't even need to have a ticket for it then either. :rolleyes:

Has anyone tried this? I would be very tempted.

How come they cannot have trains such as those in Germany where you can just wheel your bike onto the train. Loads of room any time I have been on the trains.

hinault · 13-08-2010 04:50PM

IE could easily store your bike in the carriage where they carry parcels/mail etc.

I know that the new trains do have in-carriage bike storage.

But they also have a separate carriage to carry parcels and other large post and thse carriages are big enough to carry bikes also.

Crazy stuff

doozerie · 13-08-2010 04:54PM

Piercemeear wrote: »

This means that the 1900 train I was going to get to Tralee after work will drop me in Mallow with my bike and then I won't be able to take the Mallow/Tralee connection (which passes through Mallow at 0930)?

Should I just wait until tomorrow? I don't want to get stranded in Mallow at half nine.

Blast this country.

This is some small print from the online timetables which suggest that you can't bring the bike on the Cork-Mallow train:

Limited Bicycle accommodation on all services, except Cork/Mallow/Cork local commuter services, check irishrail.ie/your_journey/bicycle_information.asp

That URL they direct you to is useless as it gives no further info that would elaborate on your options.

CheGuedara · 13-08-2010 04:55PM

Piercemeear wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'm really tired and I can't read between the lines. Since I'm leaving for the train station if an hour if I'm leaving it would be great if you could be explicit.

OK then....On more than one occasion when trying to get the bike on the bike on the train in Tralee they fobbed me off on excuses rangin from there's no space, no carriage for it to go on, no one to mind it and offered no refund for my ticket leaving me stranded till the following day. At the same time they were utterly incapable of telling me which (if any) train the following day would allow me to transport the bike.

On the train to Tralee I'v had *Major* trouble at Mallow having had to fight to get the bike onto a train several times and being dumped there once leaving me to organise someone to drive from Tralee to Mallow to pick me up.

Thus -- it's time to take the train car*

*which is more comfortable, more economic, faster and can take several bikes quibble free

Good luck lad, I'm afraid you might need it

Iarnród Éireann -maybe three of you can, maybe none of you can - rant

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