Getting the best out of your old consoles

Myrddin · 30-07-2010 12:35PM

Karsini wrote: »

I got an RGB cable for my Nintendo consoles from eBay last year. While it does have the full 21 pins and does work in RGB, there's some nasty moiré patterns in the picture. I'm assuming there's something duff about the cable?

Check this out, you might need to make a little modification.

atavan-halen wrote: »

*Runs for hills*

No no, run to DA hills

brianon · 04-08-2010 07:44PM

I got an RGB modded Megadrive off ebay a while back with s-video output. Picture looks fantastic.

landsleaving · 11-08-2010 07:26PM

Spotted one of these 'amazing' cables in Game for 99c for the PS2 yesterday and decided to see how much of a difference it made, I'm not one to go in for this kind of thing to be honest, so I wasn't expecting to notice much.

I started a game of Tekken with the standard cable that came with the console. Looked nice. Paused, plugged in the new lead... huge difference. I was shocked to say the least, I thought you were all just nuts.

11-08-2010 07:28PM

landsleaving wrote: »

I started a game of Tekken with the standard cable that came with the console. Looked nice. Paused, plugged in the new lead... huge difference. I was shocked to say the least, I thought you were all just nuts.

Nope, welcome to the club!

I know it's a cliché but you need to see it to believe it. For example, my cousin was playing his Wii on a composite cable last week and while I could see all the dot crawl artifacts he didn't notice a thing.

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2010 12:49AM

landsleaving wrote: »

Spotted one of these 'amazing' cables in Game for 99c for the PS2 yesterday and decided to see how much of a difference it made, I'm not one to go in for this kind of thing to be honest, so I wasn't expecting to notice much.

I started a game of Tekken with the standard cable that came with the console. Looked nice. Paused, plugged in the new lead... huge difference. I was shocked to say the least, I thought you were all just nuts.

Ah, another convert!

o1s1n · 12-08-2010 01:09AM

Yay! Welcome to the club indeed.

This thread needs pictures.

Here's RF. If you think this is okay, you must be blind. You can't really make out the white lines in the Sega logo, it's all just a big blur -

AV. A bit better. Starting to see some of the detail. Still blurry though -

The beauty of RGB. Look at the Sega logo now. All the lines are there. This is how it's meant to look -

(edit - pictures stolen from this thread - http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145340 )

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2010 12:05PM

AV composite looks even worse in motion due to the dot crawl artifacts.

Composite is the reason most people think HD was such a massive jump in quality. I found the jump from composite to RGB to be a huge jump while the jump from RGB to 720p isn't all that great.

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2010 12:13PM

Here's a great gif showing dot crawl artifacts:

And the site I got it from explains why composite is so bad:

http://www.disgruntleddesigner.com/chrisc/gotRGB/screenshots.html

How the hell can you live playing your games in composite (ciderman? :P )

K.O.Kiki · 12-08-2010 12:35PM

Clearly, emulation on a CRT monitor is the only way to go.

Myrddin · 12-08-2010 12:52PM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Clearly, emulation on a CRT monitor is the only way to go.

Not always, any genuine "feel" is completely lost. Emulation often surpasses the abililties of retro consoles too (AA, Filters etc), so often won't resemble what the original hardware actually looked like on a CRT.

If you want an original, retro feel, then clearly original hardware is the way to go.

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2010 01:02PM

I really hate all those smoothing filters some emulators have. It looks nice but on some really detailed games like metal slug you can lose a lot of detail.

Myrddin · 12-08-2010 01:09PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I really hate all those smoothing filters some emulators have. It looks nice but on some really detailed games like metal slug you can lose a lot of detail.

Agreed, despite making things convenient & fun, it's a completely unrealistic representaion of the actual game/graphics. To me the whole point about collecting retro consoles is to actually use them & be able to see them in action. I''ve used emu's in the past believe me, but if I felt they were in any way accurate I'd have saved myself a LOT of money.

Banjo Fella · 12-08-2010 01:36PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I really hate all those smoothing filters some emulators have. It looks nice but on some really detailed games like metal slug you can lose a lot of detail.

Definitely, I can't understand why people like using them! The scaling algorithms used are very simple and clever, so it's admirable that somebody came up with them, but still... it totally spoils the integrity of the original pixel art. It's a constricted art form, but pixel art can still be really beautiful.

Anyway, those comparison pics have convinced me to track down some RGB cables! Amazing difference, I always wondered how some friends seemed to get a much higher quality image out of their consoles. Sadly, my crummy TV only has one SCART input and getting at it is a nightmare. I've been using a SCART splitter to get around that, but I'll have to abandon it as it probably only outputs in composite.

Any tips on where to buy an RGB cable for a Wii? I've never seen any in the local games shops so I'm thinking of buying online.

K.O.Kiki · 12-08-2010 02:22PM

Well, you could compromise and not use any filters -- all you want are the true colours after all.

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2010 02:52PM

I think the worse use of filters I've seen is the PSP port of Valkyrie Profile. That's one of the most beautiful 2D games ever made and spoiled by really horrible bilinear filtering on the graphics.

Myrddin · 12-08-2010 03:26PM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Well, you could compromise and not use any filters -- all you want are the true colours after all.

It's certainly an option, but I still find it different to the original console. I don't think any emulator is 100% perfect, even the authors would agree with that.

There's no disputing the simplicity/availability of an emulator (save states, higher res, better sound etc), but there is a point against their authenticty. I have emulators however to thank for my re-interest in console gaming, after discovering them years ago.

o1s1n · 12-08-2010 03:30PM

Banjo Fella wrote: »

Sadly, my crummy TV only has one SCART input and getting at it is a nightmare. I've been using a SCART splitter to get around that, but I'll have to abandon it as it probably only outputs in composite.

Any tips on where to buy an RGB cable for a Wii? I've never seen any in the local games shops so I'm thinking of buying online.

Be careful if your tv only has one scart socket. Most older tvs with multi scart sockets on the back only have RGB support in one of them. Plugging RGB into the other scart sockets will just give a black and white picture.

As you only have the one scart socket fingers crossed it supports RGB. It might not though.

Best place to get them is ebay. On average they're always between 10 and 15 euro each. I guess just buy one and test it out!

Andrew76 · 12-08-2010 03:33PM

Just got a Nomad in the post and was thinking of sending it off to the UK to get the following mod done, it's fairly cheap and they seem to do a class job on it. What do you folks think Switchless Nomad Mod?

(For some reason I can't get the youtube embed working).

o1s1n · 12-08-2010 03:37PM

EnterNow wrote: »

It's certainly an option, but I still find it different to the original console. I don't think any emulator is 100% perfect, even the authors would agree with that.

Exactly. Why use emulation when the originals are still functioning and most are really cheap?

I would imagine long into the future we'll all be extremely glad all these roms were dumped and saved and the old hardware is starting to pack it in. But right now there's no reason not to use the originals. Unless of course the originals are expensive/hard to find. But in most cases they're not.

I suppose the other reason is if you have one of those videogame hating wives. Thank feck I dont

o1s1n · 12-08-2010 03:40PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

Just got a Nomad in the post and was thinking of sending it off to the UK to get the following mod done, it's fairly cheap and they seem to do a class job on it. What do you folks think Switchless Nomad Mod?

(For some reason I can't get the youtube embed working).

How much does that work out at in the end? I'd love it done myself. Although before I invest any more money in my one I'd like to get a new screen installed and maybe the caps changed.

edit/ best thing I ever did with my nomad was take off the old scratched screen cover and put a new one on. They're just glued on and pop right off.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sega-Nomad-Replacement-Screen-Cover-BRAND-NEW-/280542823191?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAccessories_JN

Myrddin · 12-08-2010 03:41PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

Just got a Nomad in the post and was thinking of sending it off to the UK to get the following mod done, it's fairly cheap and they seem to do a class job on it. What do you folks think Switchless Nomad Mod?

(For some reason I can't get the youtube embed working).

How much are they charging for that? All the nomads mods are here, the switchless mod looks very straight forward.

Andrew76 · 12-08-2010 03:44PM

o1s1n wrote: »

How much does that work out at in the end? I'd love it done myself. Although before I invest any more money in my one I'd like to get a new screen installed and maybe the caps changed.

edit/ best thing I ever did with my nomad was take off the old stracted screen cover and put a new one on. They're just glued on and pop right off.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sega-Nomad-Replacement-Screen-Cover-BRAND-NEW-/280542823191?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAccessories_JN

£55 I was quoted for the mod and postage back. So need to add on whatever it costs to get it over there too. Said prob about a 7 day turnaround as they busy at the minute, reckon I might fire mine off and see how it goes.

Got some of those replacement covers from ebay too, is it easy to replace them?

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2010 03:45PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Be careful if your tv only has one scart socket. Most older tvs with multi scart sockets on the back only have RGB support in one of them. Plugging RGB into the other scart sockets will just give a black and white picture.

Actually that only happens if your TV doesn't support NTSC and you are trying to play NTSC through it. If you are playing PAL games with an RGB cable in a non RGB socket you'll just get a composite signal with all the artifacting.

Myrddin · 12-08-2010 03:56PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

£55 I was quoted for the mod and postage back. So need to add on whatever it costs to get it over there too. Said prob about a 7 day turnaround as they busy at the minute, reckon I might fire mine off and see how it goes.

Got some of those replacement covers from ebay too, is it easy to replace them?

55 sterling + postage to them. Quite steep for what it is, if I were you I'd ask them not to put that led where it is in the video too - far too distracting on a handheld. Ask them to put it up beside the cart slot maybe, so at least you have it there for reference & it's not in your field of vsion.

Andrew76 · 12-08-2010 03:57PM

EnterNow wrote: »

How much are they charging for that? All the nomads mods are here, the switchless mod looks very straight forward.

Cheers for that link! Defo like the look of that new LCD mod, well beyond my ability to do unfortunately, even if I could find the time.

Andrew76 · 12-08-2010 03:59PM

EnterNow wrote: »

55 sterling + postage to them. Quite steep for what it is, if I were you I'd ask them not to put that led where it is in the video too - far too distracting on a handheld. Ask them to put it up beside the cart slot maybe, so at least you have it there for reference & it's not in your field of vsion.

Very good point about the led placement, never thought of that. Thanks.

o1s1n · 12-08-2010 04:13PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

Got some of those replacement covers from ebay too, is it easy to replace them?

It's not difficult but it's a little tricky. You have to push a blade in under the current screen and prise it off. The problem is it's hard not to mark the unit while doing so as it requires a bit of force. I took a little tiny nick out of the corner of mine -

It's totally worth it though. When you take the old one off, give the screen underneath a bit of a wipe down. When it's totally dust free, stick the new one on.

Also another good tip, go to dealextreme and buy one of those DS screen protectors. I bought one as a matter of interest and the bigger one fit the Nomad perfectly. No more scratches in future! Picture of my one below. Just don't do what I did and mount the screen protector too low. You can see it's lifting in the bottom right corner.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Actually that only happens if your TV doesn't support NTSC and you are trying to play NTSC through it. If you are playing PAL games with an RGB cable in a non RGB socket you'll just get a composite signal with all the artifacting.

Yep, spot on. I forgot as most of the consoles I'm playing through RGB have an NTSC signal!

KeRbDoG · 12-08-2010 05:44PM

o1s1n wrote: »

It's not difficult but it's a little tricky. You have to push a blade in under the current screen and prise it off. The problem is it's hard not to mark the unit while doing so as it requires a bit of force. I took a little tiny nick out of the corner of mine -

It's totally worth it though. When you take the old one off, give the screen underneath a bit of a wipe down. When it's totally dust free, stick the new one on.

Also another good tip, go to dealextreme and buy one of those DS screen protectors. I bought one as a matter of interest and the bigger one fit the Nomad perfectly. No more scratches in future! Picture of my one below. Just don't do what I did and mount the screen protector too low. You can see it's lifting in the bottom right corner.

Yep, spot on. I forgot as most of the consoles I'm playing through RGB have an NTSC signal!

Right, thats it - I'm off to get a Sega Noman.
Boards yet again costing me money!

Ron DMC · 12-08-2010 06:52PM

Actually seeing as I've lost my cables for Megadrive and SNES, is there any particular type of cables I should get for them as replacements?

I take it all Nintendo composite cables are the same? Any particular type give a clearer picture?

And the Megadrive only has one hole marked A/V out. Is this the right port for this, because it was definitely RF before from that same hole?

Retr0gamer · 12-08-2010 06:58PM

Just stay away from composite cables and in particular RF cables. They aren't worth the steam off your piss.

Get a Megadrive RGB scart cable.

For the SNES an RGB scart cable for the SNES, N64 or gamecube will work just as well. However sometimes you will get a gorgeous RGB signal which will fade away after 10 seconds to a black screen. If this happens you have to perform a very simple mod to the scart cable that just requires the removal of a few capacitors from the lead:

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/nintendo/pal-snes-rgb.htm

Getting the best out of your old consoles

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