Ireland to go down the Electric car route?

Whatever about the politics on our island. The world will will progress no matter what we do here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/1028/1224257550001.html

There's loads of recharge points already in place, keep an eye out for them they look like this.



It's not about dominance at all. No one is suggesting that there be all electric cars, just a %.

Electric cars won't suite everyones driving requirements.

I'ld like to see people in their pathetic electric vehicles doing motorway journeys.
I bet they'll all be doing nothing more than 80kmph as to not use up all the battery juice and end up with a dead battery in the middle of the city!

I'ld be up for electric cars in Ireland only if they plan to build it on the infrastructure I proposed in a thread here a while ago.

Lemme find it, here this one: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055877174

Sikie wrote: »

We should as a country be trying to develop biofuel solutions to feed next geneeration diesel engines. This could benefit the farming community and holders of small pieces of land who could grow fuel for themselves or sell their surplus.

There are two problems - we do not have enough land to grow the crops to provide the (bio)fuel even for 20% of our cars and secondly - (modern) Diesel engines are not designed to be run on that stuff.

For information on the deployment of electric cars in Ireland, go to pluginireland.ie, Ireland's only independent and free electric vehicle resource guide.

If Ireland gets a factory to Design, Develop and Build these Vehicles then Yes.
I fully support it

What will most likely happen though is that we will end up giving a Discount (such as the scrapping schema or similar) to people who change from fossil fueled cars to Eclectically powered cars.
This is a Stupid Idea and is basically giving money to other countries.
we wont be at the fore front of anything. We'll just be the test bed/ guinea pigs.

I believe Electrical cars are the way forward but we do not have enough power stations in this country to support these Cars. We would need at least 3 more fossil fuel power plants (not going to happen) or a Nuclear power plant (we have legislation in place that means we cannot even open this topic for debate until 2015 I think, so that's defo out) which leave us with renewable energy. Of which the only design's proven so far are wind and hydro electric.
We know the Greens love wind farms so be prepared to see ALOT more of these Eye-sores in the next couple of years.

Electric cars also have quite a big problem at the moment... you cannot hear them. I would bet the road accident rate will go up when these cars start entering the market.

just my 2 cents

The introduction of electric cars in inevitable.

I think it would be ideal if electric cars would be exempt from road tax/motor tax and had low insurance, free parking, free recharge stations, maybe even some government incentives to buy them like grants.

This way you can afford to have the electric car for the daily work commute which is the only thing it can do. And for the longer journeys you can keep a normal car and I wouldn't mind paying a higher motor tax then. The people who can afford to keep a normal car along with a electric car, shouldn't mind paying more tax (for the maintenance of the roads). As when the country switches to electric, it'll take away all the unnecessary cars from the lesser used (and more interesting roads) as they'll only be used on the daily commuter routes.

This way a lot of roads will be freed of motorists and the roads will be only for people who decide to pay more for the luxury of owning a normal car and going for long drives. So driving once again will become something of a recreational activity rather than a daily chore.

The majority of people who don't like driving (and only do so because they have to) will have their electric cars to go to work and can use public transport if they want to occasionally travel long distance across the country.

The few who like driving, will have the electric car for daily commute and a normal car for a spot of recreational driving pleasure. And you don't have to be extremely rich to avail this pleasure either as although you would be paying more to keep your normal car, you'ld be spending less to maintain it as you'll be driving it a lot less, only occasionally. This way the low cost of maintenance should balance the high price of petrol and the high taxes of owning such a luxury.

Think about it. The electric car might just save the petrol car industry!
Instead of producing tons of boring petrol hatchbacks, the car manufacturers can shift to producing tons of boring electric cars and the electric car industry can help support the manufacturers to build proper interesting petrol cars. Also fewer petrol cars means less oil is consumed, environment is happy, due to low demand, the oil prices should be low as well and we'll have a few more hundred years to enjoy petrol before it runs out!!

af_thefragile wrote: »

This way a lot of roads will be freed of motorists and the roads will be only for people who decide to pay more for the luxury of owning a normal car and going for long drives. So driving once again will become something of a recreational activity rather than a daily chore.

I disagree with you.

People will still need to get where they are going.

research needs to be done on making electric cars go further for long and charge quicker. That's the long and the short of it.

we have seen this government before remove services perks/hike up the price of owning something that you need without offering any alternative.

And it has been a Disaster. And I'm not just talking about cars and transport. its everything!

back to my first point.

It is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL we develop and build this new generation of vehicle. we are one of the few countries in the world that have dumped massive amounts of money into scientific research and your 3rd level education. In my eyes it's now time to see a return on that investment.

And Building these vehicles is one way of getting.

grahambo wrote: »

I disagree with you.

People will still need to get where they are going.

research needs to be done on making electric cars go further for long and charge quicker. That's the long and the short of it.

we have seen this government before remove services perks/hike up the price of owning something that you need without offering any alternative.

And it has been a Disaster. And I'm not just talking about cars and transport. its everything!

back to my first point.

It is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL we develop and build this new generation of vehicle. we are one of the few countries in the world that have dumped massive amounts of money into scientific research and your 3rd level education. In my eyes it's now time to see a return on that investment.

And Building these vehicles is one way of getting.

An electric car can never beat a petrol car in terms of range and performance. Yes the electric motor gives you maximum torque from 0rpm as they say it but the biggest problem with them performance wise is that the battery pack makes the car too heavy. And then there's the whole lack of excitement and drama you get from a normal petrol car. Which is why I say the electric car can never replace the petrol car.

The whole point of the petrol car is that you can drive on for miles and when you're low on fuel, you simply pull into a petrol station, fill it up and drive off again. In a car where you've got to rent out a BnB before you can set out to drive again will never work. And how much expensive would those "high-performance" batteries be which can recharge in a few minutes. Factor in the costs of the years of RnD which will go into developing such batteries. No reason electric cars are so expensive.

If Ireland is going to go electric, then the government needs to put down some serious strong incentives for people to buy electric. No motor tax, free recharge stations, free parking, stuff that like. Or else people will continue to buy mass produced micras and polos which can do upto 70mpg and you pay 100eur motor tax for. Why would you pay €35k for a Nissan Leaf when you can get a micra for less than half the price.


I'm not against the electric car. Infact I quite like the idea of charging it overnight and going to work in it. It'll work perfectly for the 90% of people who have no interest in driving and only do so because they have to.

And so I say car manufactures should start focusing on producing mass produced cheap electric cars. No need to focus on fancy new technology. The existing technology will do fine. 100mile range, 6hr recharge time, Li-ion battery pack powering a simple electric motor is all they need. Its not very expensive to build an electric car. They're much simpler than petrol cars. What's expensive is the research that goes into building a replacement for the petrol car. Which is what I think the car manufacturers need to stop doing. Just accept it that the electric car will never be able to replace the petrol car (cuz if it could, it would have had 100years ago) and stop spending millions trying to develop new more efficient battery packs and electric motors.

So when car manufacturers start making cheap electric cars, couple that with government incentive and everyone will quickly make the switch. People who are not interested in driving will get the electric cars for their commute.
People who are interested in driving will get to keep their petrol car as a 2nd car for recreational and long distance use. Problem solved!

langdang wrote: »

I agree with af, dirt cheap purpose specific electric cars are whats needed - who really wants to spend money on one? A radio and a heater. Low tax and insurance, half rate parking. If only for use in a 50kph zone then reduced impact protection etc for lower weight - the onus would have to be on ICE engined vehicles to be extra careful in 50kph zones.

Exactly. A G-wiz costs something like €10k. It shouldn't be very hard to build something more decent the size of a Micra for €15-20k. Add €2-3k government grant + incentives and you have an affordable replacement for the Micra.
For most people the daily commute is no more than 30-40miles. Free charging at workplace + charging overnight at home should make a leccy car with even a 60-80miles range perfect for the daily commuter.

No point spending millions trying to build powerful battery packs which can last for 200miles and electric motors which can do over 120mph. We already have petrol cars which can do that easily. We don't need high performance electric cars. What we need are replacements for the micras and polos and yaris and all those dreary hatchbacks people use to get from home to work and back.

seamus wrote: »

Storage capacity and battery life are pretty much the two major hurdles. When we have a battery (it's a matter of time) that can hold 600km of charge with replacement cycles of about 8 years, then that's the last major hurdle over. In reality petrol engines will have little benefit over electric ones for the end-consumer.

Even the quick-charge may not be as necessary as we think.

The problem is that we're used to using most of our tank, pulling into a petrol station, filling up in 3-5 minutes and then heading off again for another 600km before repeating the cycle.

Instead, if we get ourselves used to plugging in the vehicle every evening when we get home (or developing induction-charge technology which doesn't even require a plug), then it will be very, very rare that we ever use up our vehicle's entire charge in a single day. I've certainly never used a fuel tank of petrol in a day, though I expect that salesmen and taxi drivers often come close.

Of course this will still be an issue in the States and other large landmasses where people may routinely do 10 or 15 hours hours a day @ 100km/h, so unless charging stations can replenish 90% of battery power in 10 minutes or less, gasoline will still win out in those markets.

Interesting what you say about pulling into the station and filling up with petrol in a few minutes. I think it could be the case that you pull into a station and "change" battery packs. E.g. drive over some sort of docking bay that your old battery sinks into and a new fully charged one replaces it. Sounds a bit far fetched perhaps but the technology will get there someday.

af_thefragile wrote: »

An electric car can never beat a petrol car in terms of range and performance. Yes the electric motor gives you maximum torque from 0rpm as they say it but the biggest problem with them performance wise is that the battery pack makes the car too heavy. And then there's the whole lack of excitement and drama you get from a normal petrol car. Which is why I say the electric car can never replace the petrol car.

The whole point of the petrol car is that you can drive on for miles and when you're low on fuel, you simply pull into a petrol station, fill it up and drive off again. In a car where you've got to rent out a BnB before you can set out to drive again will never work. And how much expensive would those "high-performance" batteries be which can recharge in a few minutes. Factor in the costs of the years of RnD which will go into developing such batteries. No reason electric cars are so expensive.

If Ireland is going to go electric, then the government needs to put down some serious strong incentives for people to buy electric. No motor tax, free recharge stations, free parking, stuff that like. Or else people will continue to buy mass produced micras and polos which can do upto 70mpg and you pay 100eur motor tax for. Why would you pay €35k for a Nissan Leaf when you can get a micra for less than half the price.


I'm not against the electric car. Infact I quite like the idea of charging it overnight and going to work in it. It'll work perfectly for the 90% of people who have no interest in driving and only do so because they have to.

And so I say car manufactures should start focusing on producing mass produced cheap electric cars. No need to focus on fancy new technology. The existing technology will do fine. 100mile range, 6hr recharge time, Li-ion battery pack powering a simple electric motor is all they need. Its not very expensive to build an electric car. They're much simpler than petrol cars. What's expensive is the research that goes into building a replacement for the petrol car. Which is what I think the car manufacturers need to stop doing. Just accept it that the electric car will never be able to replace the petrol car (cuz if it could, it would have had 100years ago) and stop spending millions trying to develop new more efficient battery packs and electric motors.

So when car manufacturers start making cheap electric cars, couple that with government incentive and everyone will quickly make the switch. People who are not interested in driving will get the electric cars for their commute.
People who are interested in driving will get to keep their petrol car as a 2nd car for recreational and long distance use. Problem solved!

We're running out of oil. We don't just use oil for petrol and diesel either. It would be nice to have some oil left over for producing laptops, iphones, tyres and just generally anything we use plastic for.... which is a lot of things!

ICE vehicles will still have niche roles and will also be used more for recreational purposes, just as horses are now used primarily for recreational purposes. Also most likely at some point in the future we'll probably be able to produce hydrogen cheaply enough which can be used in petrol cars.

Research into battery technology will continue regardless, as my laptop or phone doesn't run on petrol or hydrogen. A hydrogen fuel cell would be nice, but those would be used with electric vehicles.

From a social aspect it would be nice to stroll down O'Connell street in Dublin and not have to listen to noisy vehicles. Everyone is used to all the noise, but I think most people would enjoy the silence electric vehicles bring. I say that as someone who considers themselves a petrol-head, I have a nice A6 Avant Quattro Sport and I own quite a loud Ducati motorcycle. But a quiet city would be very nice and I don't see how ICE vehicles could ever accomplish that.

I took my first test drive in an electric car the other day, the Nissan Leaf. I can't disagree more with your point about cheap crap cars like the G Wiz. People don't want to make difficult lifestyle changes, most people still want a nice car. A car that is similar in size and build quality to current cars, only it is quieter and much more friendly to the planet. As someone who enjoys fast cars and motorcycles, I can tell you the Leaf for a mid sized family hatchback is fast enough and plenty of fun to drive. I wouldn't be so critical of electric cars until you've tried one like the Leaf.

Elessar wrote: »

As someone already mentioned, the biggest hurdles to electric vehicles really becoming mainstream are battery capacity (i.e. range) and charge times. I have absolutely no doubt that eventually we will have batteries that will charge in minutes flat and last as long as a current diesel tank (new generation capacitor batteries for example). It's only a matter of time.

For the moment, the best middleground IMO will be cars like the upcoming Opel Omega. An entirely electric vehicle but with a 1.4L petrol engine which is only used to charge the batteries when they get low (i.e. doesn't drive the wheels at all). They claim 175MPG. It's not perfect, but it solves the problem of having to wait hours to recharge your vehicle.

If I was a family man, that would be the next car on my list. I can see it really taking off. A good middleground no doubt?

If range is an issue, then yes I completely agree with you. I'd be interested in the Opel as well. However there is a trade off! One advantage of an electric car is that electric "engines" are very simple and need little maintenance. Coolant, oil, filters they all don't exist in an electric car. That sort of hybrid gains a range advantage but loses the simplicity advantage. A trade off I might be willing to make myself

af_thefragile wrote: »

...... there will be a sharp raise in Lithium demand (Good news for Chile and Bolivia!).

....yeah, about that: if anyone thinks we're currently hostage to a dozen or so oil-producing countries, some of which have a semblance of stability, can you even contemplate being held to greater hostage, by two mad-as-hat's regime's like Chile and Bolivia ?

It won't be batteries that'll make/break electric cars - it'll be politics.

Aka, money.

We are green dreaming too early on this one the auto industry is only developing this technology even in ten year best projections would be 10% pure electric displacing IC engines of today or IC/Electric hybrids. Overpriced electicity and tax rebates subsiding a small miniority while we attempt totest technology for MNCs