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AAI Team management

2

Comments

  • #32
    emerald007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 669 ✭✭✭emerald007


    not sure what to make of this

    http://www.davidgillick.com/blog/AAI-Statement.html


  • #33
    IrishTrackFan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    emerald007 wrote: »
    not sure what to make of this

    http://www.davidgillick.com/blog/AAI-Statement.html

    First of all when you are able to deliver 3 400s like Gillick then I will respect your views on his personality. The first he heard about running the relay heat was straight after his 400 final. He had not been spoken to about the relay all week, nor indeed for months beforehand and he had reasonably assumed that he would be running the final if needed on that basis i.e. it was unreasonable to expect him to run 5 races in 6 days.
    That statement is on his website because McGonagle wants to close off the real issue which is where was the fifth man when he was needed. The answer is that he was allowed go home - he has a new born child and wanted to go back to Ireland. A replacement should have been brought out immediately but that wasn't done. McGonagle is the one at fault for that.
    Combined that with his unilateral decision that certain athletes would be retired from championships, his abuse of athletes ahead of their races and other misbehaviour that is coming to light as the athletes and their coaches return from Barcelona with more disturbing reports.
    I thought he believed he was Trappatoni but actually it's Mussolini he models himself on!
    10 years in charge, 5 of them with significant funding at his disposal and nothing to show for it other than the individual achievements of athletes who have risen above his shenanigans.


  • #34
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    emerald007 wrote: »
    not sure what to make of this

    http://www.davidgillick.com/blog/AAI-Statement.html

    Falls well short of what I'd expect as regards defending one of our most prized assets who always puts it on the line and is so proud to be Irish. No mention of the selection cock up which caused this.


  • #35
    temply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭temply


    IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »
    First of all when you are able to deliver 3 400s like Gillick then I will respect your views on his personality. The first he heard about running the relay heat was straight after his 400 final. He had not been spoken to about the relay all week, nor indeed for months beforehand and he had reasonably assumed that he would be running the final if needed on that basis i.e. it was unreasonable to expect him to run 5 races in 6 days.
    That statement is on his website because McGonagle wants to close off the real issue which is where was the fifth man when he was needed. The answer is that he was allowed go home - he has a new born child and wanted to go back to Ireland. A replacement should have been brought out immediately but that wasn't done. McGonagle is the one at fault for that.
    Combined that with his unilateral decision that certain athletes would be retired from championships, his abuse of athletes ahead of their races and other misbehaviour that is coming to light as the athletes and their coaches return from Barcelona with more disturbing reports.
    I thought he believed he was Trappatoni but actually it's Mussolini he models himself on!
    10 years in charge, 5 of them with significant funding at his disposal and nothing to show for it other than the individual achievements of athletes who have risen above his shenanigans.

    I replied to this in the other thread asking what you meant by his abuse of athletes ahead of their races?

    Would you care to elaborate please?


  • #36
    IrishTrackFan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    <mod snip>


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  • #37
    temply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭temply


    <mod snip- quoted the above>


  • #38
    IrishTrackFan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    temply wrote: »
    Having been looked after myself by Pasty myself on trips I find that hard to believe & actually take offence to be honest.

    And if it is true - where does that leave you?


  • #39
    temply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭temply


    IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »
    And if it is true - where does that leave you?

    Why would I lie?

    You'd want to be more careful about posting accusations
    like that in fairness.


  • #40
    donothoponpop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,608 ✭✭✭donothoponpop


    <mod>Guys, we can't have individuals being slandered here. If you want to post something about an individual, you have to make sure its more concrete than heresay (even if you're the one who heard it).

    So please don't ask for specific examples of an individuals behaviour, and try and keep discussion (personal opinions and insights) a bit more general. Quoting other athlete's is ok, so long as the quote can be attributed to them.

    Thanks for understanding on this.     /<mod>


  • #41
    Fish'n'Chips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    By the sounds of that statement McGonagle is making out he (McGonagle) only became aware that the men's 4x400 heats were on the morning after Gillick's final. Either that or he's trying to deflect attention from the fact he made a major balls up by not having a back-up 400 specialist (or two!) in place for the relay heats.

    Whichever the excuse is he should be sacked for the shambles.


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  • #42
    temply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭temply


    donothoponpop wrote: »
    <mod>Guys, we can't have individuals being slandered here. If you want to post something about an individual, you have to make sure its more concrete than heresay (even if you're the one who heard it).

    So please don't ask for specific examples of an individuals behaviour, and try and keep discussion (personal opinions and insights) a bit more general. Quoting other athlete's is ok, so long as the quote can be attributed to them.

    Thanks for understanding on this. /<mod>

    Proper order

    Good moding.


  • #43
    IrishTrackFan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    temply wrote: »
    Why would I lie?

    You'd want to be more careful about posting accusations
    like that in fairness.

    I'm not accusing you of lying. I merely said that if McGonagle does behave as I said then you might need to reconsider your view of him. However, in deference to the moderator we need to close this line of discussion down!


  • #44
    temply
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭temply


    IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »
    I'm not accusing you of lying. I merely said that if McGonagle does behave as I said then you might need to reconsider your view of him. However, in deference to the moderator we need to close this line of discussion down!

    Oh I know you were not - that comment was directed to those accustations you were spouting.


  • #45
    drrunner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭drrunner


    donothoponpop wrote: »
    <mod>Guys, we can't have individuals being slandered here. If you want to post something about an individual, you have to make sure its more concrete than heresay (even if you're the one who heard it).

    So please don't ask for specific examples of an individuals behaviour, and try and keep discussion (personal opinions and insights) a bit more general. Quoting other athlete's is ok, so long as the quote can be attributed to them.

    Thanks for understanding on this.     /<mod>

    I understand where mod is coming from, but I cab personally attest to the accuracy of some of the accusations and more. Just because one individual has not had any issues, it would be naive to believe that it couldn't happen. Sure wasn't it well reported in recent months similar behaviour and language used by the same gentleman and shown in court as written evidence?

    Setting that aside, I agree with tingles post - statement does not go far enough. An apology to gillick is warranted. And to his family for the distress that they have been caused - instead of bring able to take pride in their sons achievements they ended up in a position where they felt they had to justify/ applogise for him - a terrible experience for them all.


  • #46
    myflipflops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    Tingle wrote: »

    Now, that may not have been exactly what happened but what it would do would exonerate David McCarthy,.

    By 2 accounts of people directly involved (neither of them McCarthy), he wasn't pushing anyone hard to get home early and went so far as to double check that it was fine and that he wasn't needed.

    There is one major question that needs to be answered:

    Why was there no conversation about the make up of the relay team for the heat until 13 hours before it was due to start (and hours after individual final)? The person at fault here is whoever is in charge of organising that covversation.


  • #47
    IrishTrackFan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    myflipflops wrote: »
    By 2 accounts of people directly involved (neither of them McCarthy), he wasn't pushing anyone hard to get home early and went so far as to double check that it was fine and that he wasn't needed.

    There is one major question that needs to be answered:

    Why was there no conversation about the make up of the relay team for the heat until 13 hours before it was due to start (and hours after individual final)? The person at fault here is whoever is in charge of organising that covversation.

    The interview with Gillick in the IT today reinforces this question. It is clear from Gillick that the first conversation regarding the relay was held with him after the 400m final. This is beyond belief given the sheer number of officials, coaches, team management etc that took themselves off to Barcelona.

    So AAI CEO, AAI HP Chair, Team Manager, HP Manager, can one or all of you please tell us why there was no discussion of the relay with our number one runner until the night before the heats?


  • #48
    drrunner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭drrunner


    IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »
    The interview with Gillick in the IT today reinforces this question. It is clear from Gillick that the first conversation regarding the relay was held with him after the 400m final. This is beyond belief given the sheer number of officials, coaches, team management etc that took themselves off to Barcelona.

    So AAI CEO, AAI HP Chair, Team Manager, HP Manager, can one or all of you please tell us why there was no discussion of the relay with our number one runner until the night before the heats?

    So per the boards.ie investigation (:)) - a team of five athletes was named for the men's 4x400m relay - Gillick, Kennedy, Murphy, Gregan and David McCarthy. (see http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=14417). Per previous post David McCarthy was explicitly given the OK to go home the day before the relay heats. He had ALREADY gone before there was any conversation with David Gillick (which in itself is suggestive that no previous planning had gone into the whole thing). Obviously Brian Murphy knew he was there for the relay and benefit of the doubt assumes that so did Kennedy and Gregan. So basically, late the night before the heats, it appears pretty certain that only three athletes knew that they were expected to run the relay heats.

    Another factor that points to the complete lack of planning is the fact that Colvert only qualified for his individual event at the very last minute - it was a stroke of "luck" that he was even there to step up. Arguably Hession could have done it, but again if he was given no notice, it is understandable that he may not have felt up to it.

    This debacle has far wider consequences than not qualifying for the final in Barcelona. The relays are a recognised important mechanism for the development of events from 100m to 400m - some would say even to 800m. Using the example of the women's relay teams - both of these just missed out on the final, but scored national records which is good in itself. However more importantly, these teams have now both qualified for the World Championships next year. The qualifying criteria for the Olympics have not yet been published to the best of my knowledge, but it is certain that any teams who have the opportunity to compete in the World Championships have a massive advantage in attempting to qualify for the Olympics in two years. The women's teams are in a strong position if they are managed properly in the meantime. The men's teams are nowhere - and they could have been if it was not for what can only be described as serious incompetence.

    Will anyone be held to account? I doubt it! And a generation of 400m runners will most likely miss out on the opportunity to compete in the closest thing to a home Olympics that we will ever see (excepting Gillick of course who will bounce back and be better for the experience I hope).


  • #49
    G-Money
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭G-Money


    It's funny, I was reading Sonia O'Sullivan's book and she had a line in it where she said "And I think I have problems with the people who run Athletics in Ireland". I guess various athletes have had issues with the organisers.


  • #50
    IrishTrackFan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭IrishTrackFan1


    grandmaster wrote: »
    It's funny, I was reading Sonia O'Sullivan's book and she had a line in it where she said "And I think I have problems with the people who run Athletics in Ireland". I guess various athletes have had issues with the organisers.

    True, and its the same people - Hennessy and McGonagle have been on the board and involved in HP for the last twenty years.

    Sonia was elected to be an Olympic representative two years ago, but the nomination came from soccer, not athletics!


  • #51
    scouser82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭scouser82


    I read both Coghlan and Sonia's books. Coghlans we know all about what happened, and he slates the BLE in it.

    Sonia does likewise. She said that one time she had entered in 3 events for the National Championships (she hadnt decided which one she would do), then on the day of the championships, the BLE demanded she pay her entry fee for all 3 races or she would not be allowed to compete. Pure madness. Great way to treat our top athletes.

    What was the reason that James McIlroy changed to GB? Was it to do with all this nonsense with the AAI giving him no support?


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  • #52
    myflipflops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    scouser82 wrote: »
    What was the reason that James McIlroy changed to GB? Was it to do with all this nonsense with the AAI giving him no support?

    He considers himself British I believe so decided after the European Champs in 1998 to represent GB.


  • #53
    scouser82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭scouser82


    myflipflops wrote: »
    He considers himself British I believe so decided after the European Champs in 1998 to represent GB.

    Thats fair enough. But why represent Ireland in the first place?


  • #54
    myflipflops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    scouser82 wrote: »
    Thats fair enough. But why represent Ireland in the first place?

    I'm not certain. It could have been as simple as being selected for Ireland so he took the opportunity. I'm not sure how high he was ranked on the British scene before his 4th place at that.

    I'm pretty sure that was his one and only Irish vest, open to correction though.


  • #55
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »
    True, and its the same people - Hennessy and McGonagle have been on the board and involved in HP for the last twenty years.

    Sonia was elected to be an Olympic representative two years ago, but the nomination came from soccer, not athletics!

    Ah come on, your thirst for McGonagle bashing is relentless. Was there any mention of him or Hennessy in her book? I read it and I can't recall. The vibe I got and also from the Chairmans was that it was the old BLE Dublin Mafia were the problem.

    The only mention I can recall of any of the recent parties in AAI being mentioned was Brendan Hackett and indeed in a favourable light from Sonia. He never got to see out his tenure as CEO from the day he was walked from his office by Mary Coghlan and Gerry Giblin. Who knows what would have happened if he had stayed and been allowed to his job without interference. Who knows what would have happened if Coghlan had been allowed do her job without interference from McGonagle. Will history repeat itself and we'll be saying who knows what Foley could have done if there wasn't interference from whoever (the campaign that Fish N Chips and IrishTrackFan wage here for example). Who knows. Bit of a vicious circle really.

    Best follow Derval's advice and do things yourself.

    Back on topic, based on drrunner's post about the safe assumption now that seeing as McCarthy was allowed leave (based on myflipflops totally unbiased and trustworthy update) and Gillick's point in the Irish Times that he was never made aware he would be needed for the heats, this is purely down as a major Team Management cockup. Who are the big losers? Not Gillick really but the other 3 guys on the team - Kennedy, Murphy and Gregan. They lost out most and all did their part on the day.


  • #56
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    myflipflops wrote: »
    I'm not certain. It could have been as simple as being selected for Ireland so he took the opportunity. I'm not sure how high he was ranked on the British scene before his 4th place at that.

    I'm pretty sure that was his one and only Irish vest, open to correction though.

    He was with Sean Kyle wasn't he at the time and indeed Sean brought him through. Sean may have influenced his decision. His move was more down to his background I would imagine, he was always more British than Irish. Don't think the BLE/AAI had anything to do with it, more idealogical than financial.


  • #57
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    On McIlroy, what a shame he never stayed with Ireland and built on that 4th in the European outdoors. We would never had had the 'Are you a Chamney man or a Campbell man' debate as they both would have been trailing in 10metres behind him;)


  • #58
    myflipflops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    Tingle wrote: »
    On McIlroy, what a shame he never stayed with Ireland and built on that 4th in the European outdoors. We would never had had the 'Are you a Chamney man or a Campbell man' debate as they both would have been trailing in 10metres behind him;)

    Never developed like the early talent promised. I think he left Sean Kyle quickly after his Euro 4th place. It's pity, whatever vest he was wearing, it would have been great to see him win medals.


  • #59
    drrunner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭drrunner


    Tingle wrote: »
    Ah come on, your thirst for McGonagle bashing is relentless. Was there any mention of him or Hennessy in her book? I read it and I can't recall. The vibe I got and also from the Chairmans was that it was the old BLE Dublin Mafia were the problem.

    The only mention I can recall of any of the recent parties in AAI being mentioned was Brendan Hackett and indeed in a favourable light from Sonia. He never got to see out his tenure as CEO from the day he was walked from his office by Mary Coghlan and Gerry Giblin. Who knows what would have happened if he had stayed and been allowed to his job without interference. Who knows what would have happened if Coghlan had been allowed do her job without interference from McGonagle. Will history repeat itself and we'll be saying who knows what Foley could have done if there wasn't interference from whoever (the campaign that Fish N Chips and IrishTrackFan wage here for example). Who knows. Bit of a vicious circle really.

    Best follow Derval's advice and do things yourself.

    Back on topic, based on drrunner's post about the safe assumption now that seeing as McCarthy was allowed leave (based on myflipflops totally unbiased and trustworthy update) and Gillick's point in the Irish Times that he was never made aware he would be needed for the heats, this is purely down as a major Team Management cockup. Who are the big losers? Not Gillick really but the other 3 guys on the team - Kennedy, Murphy and Gregan. They lost out most and all did their part on the day.

    Eh mostly I think your posts are very good, but you need to check out a few facts. Brendan Hackett did not see out his tenure due to the fact that he himself resigned in January 2008 (and was widely quoted in the newspapers at the time as saying that he had resigned because he felt that he achieved everything in 2 years instead of the 3 years that he was contracted for). He was then put on garden leave a couple of months later as a result of the fact that he demanded 30k to go quietly and this was seen by the Board as an aggressive stance against the Association. A unanimous vote was taken to this effect. <Mod snip- drrunner, you saw the earlier remark I made about posting accusations against individuals. Take a week off to read it again> Amazing the spin that can be put on things....He was walked out of the office by nobody although of course someone had the difficult job of explaining to him the decision that had been reached by the Board which was fully in line with his terms of employment.


    All CEOs are the subject of criticism, some justified, a lot not - this is the way of the world. Criticism of performance is very different to interference in the fundamental ability to perform the role (aka McGonagle as mentioned by yourself). I would suggest that opinions expressed here are not interference in doing any job....they're just opinions!!!

    It's easy to be critical of posters because they stick to their guns and are consistent in their view of the world. Though I agree that it is boring if someone posts just on one topic and seems to have no interest in anything else. On the subject of McGonagle, I believe you yourself said in the last week that he should be gone as a result of the relay debacle.


  • #60
    drrunner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭drrunner


    Tingle wrote: »
    He was with Sean Kyle wasn't he at the time and indeed Sean brought him through. Sean may have influenced his decision. His move was more down to his background I would imagine, he was always more British than Irish. Don't think the BLE/AAI had anything to do with it, more idealogical than financial.

    Yes - I always understood that he really felt he was British rather than Irish. He switched around the time of the World Championships in 1999 which he missed through injury.


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  • #61
    woodchopper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 806 ✭✭✭woodchopper


    Tingle wrote: »
    On McIlroy, what a shame he never stayed with Ireland and built on that 4th in the European outdoors. We would never had had the 'Are you a Chamney man or a Campbell man' debate as they both would have been trailing in 10metres behind him;)

    McIlroy would be trailing Chamney by 50 meters in the 1500;)


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