the Cork teen tragedy

thebaz · 24-07-2010 12:25PM #1

The media are all over this case hammering the HSE, but for once surely the mother (or father ) should take responsibility not the State - his mother put him in care at 9 , didnt see him for 6 months prior to his death - but the State/HSE tried to house him wherever possible including at Jurys hotel , at an employees expense - it is a tragedy and I don't know all the facts but from whats given, surely the media and family should show a little more dignity on what seams an incredibly tough life , and stop blaming the state for this one

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/a-beautiful-affectionate-boy-2270963.html

Deus Ex Machina · 24-07-2010 12:26PM

Liberals in avoidance of personal accountability shocker

orourkeda · 24-07-2010 12:27PM

Would it be fair to suggest that the state is unfairly blamed in a lot of these cases?

xzanti · 24-07-2010 12:28PM

Why wasn't he in a Hospital if he was 'consumed by pneumonia'

thebaz · 24-07-2010 12:29PM

xzanti wrote: »

Why wasn't he in a Hospital if he was 'consumed by pneumonia'

he discharged himself against Doctors advice

biko · 24-07-2010 12:31PM

She believes Christopher's social workers should have been able to force the teenager to have the medical treatment he so badly needed.

Yes, point the finger somewhere else.

aDeener · 24-07-2010 12:34PM

thebaz wrote: »

The media are all over this case hammering the HSE, but for once surely the mother (or father ) should take responsibility not the State - his mother put him in care at 9 , didnt see him for 6 months prior to his death - but the State/HSE tried to house him wherever possible including at Jurys hotel , at an employees expense - it is a tragedy and I don't know all the facts but from whats given, surely the media and family should show a little more dignity on what seams an incredibly tough life , and stop blaming the state for this one

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/a-beautiful-affectionate-boy-2270963.html

don't see how its a tragedy when he got pneumonia as a result of drug abuse. no one forced the drugs on him

personal responsiblity - everyone knows the dangers of drugs

stovelid · 24-07-2010 12:35PM

Jesus, the poor child. Looks like he was failed by everybody.

aDeener wrote: »

don't see how its a tragedy when he got pneumonia as a result of drug abuse. no one forced the drugs on him

personal responsiblity - everyone knows the dangers of drugs

s.t.f.u

Nermal · 24-07-2010 12:37PM

orourkeda wrote: »

Would it be fair to suggest that the state is unfairly blamed in a lot of these cases?

Absolutely. I don't know why the HSE is getting the blame for addicts offing themselves or getting murdered.

thebaz · 24-07-2010 12:40PM

aDeener wrote: »

don't see how its a tragedy when he got pneumonia as a result of drug abuse. no one forced the drugs on him

personal responsiblity - everyone knows the dangers of drugs

well he obviously had a pretty tough life , but my point is why are we (the State) getting blamed for all the wrongs and everything in his life , when perhaps his parents should have shown some more love or effort when it was needed - rather than coming out now saying how the State failed him , when to my eyes they did what they could even putting him up in a hotel in these times of hardship.
I dont blame the aunt , but i think the parent should just let this rest.

Kasabian · 24-07-2010 12:41PM

aDeener wrote: »

don't see how its a tragedy when he got pneumonia as a result of drug abuse. no one forced the drugs on him

personal responsiblity - everyone knows the dangers of drugs

He was a child :eek:.

aDeener · 24-07-2010 12:43PM

Kasabian wrote: »

He was a child :eek:.

he was 17

genericguy · 24-07-2010 12:44PM

the family sees that the HSE is taking stick from the media for the last while, thinks they can get on the bandwagon and shirk their own responsibilities and assuage their guilt. the last few cases i've read about have been like that too.

this is just like that young lad that got murdered in blanchardstown and was AWOL for months until his body was found - you'd his whole family complaining that the HSE should have taken better care of him. I'd put it to them, that they, his fcuking family, were responsible for taking care of him.

aDeener · 24-07-2010 12:44PM

stovelid wrote: »

Jesus, the poor child. Looks like he was failed by everybody.

s.t.f.u

yeah absolutely failed by everybody, nothing to do with himself. oh no not at all.

maybe you should stfu :rolleyes:

DOC09UNAM · 24-07-2010 01:47PM

aDeener wrote: »

he was 17

He died at 17, he was in care since 10.

"Christopher first came to the attention of the HSE at the age of 10 when he was showing signs of self-cutting. He was taken into care -- and was abusing drugs by the age of 12."

I know I certainly wasn't aware of the dangers of drugs at 12, and I had parents, imagine what it was like for him, being thrown into care, that must bring on a whole heap of depression right there, you shouldn't judge unless you've been in his circumstances, which you clearly haven't.

southsiderosie · 24-07-2010 01:51PM

The article I read about this case focused less on the family, and more on his background and last few weeks of his life.

Based on the article it sounds like he had some psychiatric issues that would only be exacerbated by drug use...which started at age 12. The state can only do so much when these kids get older - you can't take care of people who don't want to take care of themselves.

That said, I hate when the family goes on and on about how wonderful the kids was when it seems like they didn't give two ****s about him when he was alive. I'd be more sympathetic if they had been lobbying for years to put him in a psychiatric clinic or something, rather than complaining after the fact and being 'shocked' that this ill, addicted kid 'looked terrible' and died in an unbelievably grim fashion.

Sad.

Ricardo G · 24-07-2010 01:53PM

Horrible to think about any 12 year old taking drugs when this is supposed to be a time of innocence and fun for any normal child. Parents are great to point the finger when things like this happen, i see it so often and there's no excuse !!:(

aDeener · 24-07-2010 01:55PM

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

He died at 17, he was in care since 10.

"Christopher first came to the attention of the HSE at the age of 10 when he was showing signs of self-cutting. He was taken into care -- and was abusing drugs by the age of 12."

I know I certainly wasn't aware of the dangers of drugs at 12, and I had parents, imagine what it was like for him, being thrown into care, that must bring on a whole heap of depression right there, you shouldn't judge unless you've been in his circumstances, which you clearly haven't.

fuck all people have been in them circumstances. using your logic people can't comment on the premiership unless they themselves were brilliant footballers....:rolleyes:

there is more than enough awareness of drugs out there. i knew full well when i was 12 the dangers of drugs. your parents never told you about them??

there has to be personal responsibility, that said, i was harsh earlier solely blaming him - his parents have a lot to answer for. ya cant go round blaming the state for your own faults

DOC09UNAM · 24-07-2010 02:00PM

aDeener wrote: »

fuck all people have been in them circumstances. using your logic people can't comment on the premiership unless they themselves were brilliant footballers....:rolleyes:

there is more than enough awareness of drugs out there. i knew full well when i was 12 the dangers of drugs. your parents never told you about them??

there has to be personal responsibility, that said, i was harsh earlier solely blaming him - his parents have a lot to answer for. ya cant go round blaming the state for your own faults

Yeah, a 10 year old being put into care, and trying to understand his mindstate, is the same thing as watching a game of football...

I'll happily take the warning for this, you are an idiot.

MOD NOTE: Poster banned for this.

aDeener · 24-07-2010 02:03PM

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Yeah, a 10 year old being put into care, and trying to understand his mindstate, is the same thing as watching a game of football...

I'll happily take the warning for this, you are an idiot.

yes, because that is exactly what i said.... try reading what i wrote :rolleyes:

jiltloop · 24-07-2010 02:25PM

aDeener wrote: »

there is more than enough awareness of drugs out there. i knew full well when i was 12 the dangers of drugs. your parents never told you about them??

Eh... he basicaly had no parents at the age of 12! There was no one to protect him or warn him about the dangers of drugs. He probably had to find comfort somewhere and obviously drugs were the only thing around to provide it for him. And of course we all know how that ends up.

Mrmoe · 24-07-2010 02:40PM

jiltloop wrote: »

Eh... he basicaly had no parents at the age of 12! There was no one to protect him or warn him about the dangers of drugs. He probably had to find comfort somewhere and obviously drugs were the only thing around to provide it for him. And of course we all know how that ends up.

That is the point he is trying to make, the parents should be held accountable for a large proportion of what happened. Generally the damage is done when the HSE has to step in. No one should be immune from criticism but the parents should be fairly high up on the pecking order.

The Aussie · 24-07-2010 02:57PM

Its a sad case where everyone failed him including his parents (only heard the mum being interviewed though), but imo 17 is old enough to take care of yourself and to be accountable for your own actions.

I know i was at 17 i had started an apprenticeship with a second job and started driving had a substantial loan over my head and was for all intense purposes a functioning member of society, so the excuse of he was only 17 just does not wash with most people.

24-07-2010 03:04PM

I know i was at 17 i had started an apprenticeship with a second job and started driving had a substantial loan over my head and was for all intense purposes a functioning member of society, so the excuse of he was only 17 just does not wash with most people.[/QUOTE]

wow good for you ! you were put into care too then at nine ? ( somehow i doubt it but prove me wrong) there are all sorts of people to blame here but the story as a whole is just tragic .

ceadaoin. · 24-07-2010 03:26PM

Mrmoe wrote: »

That is the point he is trying to make, the parents should be held accountable for a large proportion of what happened. Generally the damage is done when the HSE has to step in. No one should be immune from criticism but the parents should be fairly high up on the pecking order.

+1

His mother effectively washed her hands of her son by putting him into care as soon as things got a bit tough for her, at the age of 9 ffs :mad:

She has no right to complain about the state not taking care of him, that's supposed to be her job! From what I've read it seems they did all they could for him, making someone into a scapegoat isn't going to help matters. She'll be looking for a payout from them now probably

scientific1982 · 24-07-2010 03:31PM

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

Liberals in avoidance of personal accountability shocker

Where the f@#k did you get liberals from this story.

thebaz · 24-07-2010 03:39PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

His mother effectively washed her hands of her son by putting him into care as soon as things got a bit tough for her, at the age of 9 ffs :mad:

She has no right to complain about the state not taking care of him, that's supposed to be her job! From what I've read it seems they did all they could for him, making someone into a scapegoat isn't going to help matters. She'll be looking for a payout from them now probably

that in a nutshell is my point - the mother is taking no responsibility for damage caused - and the media just launch an attack on an uncaring health service - what were they supposed to do put him in a better hotel ? force him into a straight jacket to receive treatment for his ailments - tragic all around

The Aussie · 24-07-2010 04:12PM

[quote=[Deleted User];67093948]
wow good for you ! you were put into care too then at nine ? ( somehow i doubt it but prove me wrong) there are all sorts of people to blame here but the story as a whole is just tragic .

[/QUOTE]

http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Helen_Lovejoy

I love the Helen Lovejoy response, "Won't somebody please think of the children" the point is that no one forced him to check himself out of hospital, no one forced drugs into himself, no one else got him kicked out of the hotel, judging by your response someone should have tucked him into bed to stop his nasty little cold (a small bit of sarcasm intended), at 17 there is a certain amount of ownership of your life, he had none, if he went on to commit a serious crime to feed his drug habit i wonder would he have the outpouring of sympathy.

Btw good for me, wow....

mathepac · 24-07-2010 04:19PM

aDeener wrote: »

... he got pneumonia as a result of drug abuse ...

The report doesn't say that.

24-07-2010 04:45PM

judging by your response someone should have tucked him into bed to stop his nasty little cold (a small bit of sarcasm intended), at 17 there is a certain amount of ownership of your life, he had none, if he went on to commit a serious crime to feed his drug habit i wonder would he have the outpouring of sympathy.

Btw good for me, wow...QUOTE

It must be great to think we live in a world where everyone has the same opportunities and good start to allow you to avail of the many choices most people have. Tuck him up in bed and help the guy out yes i would definitely , a preferable option to letting the guy die alone in squalor at the age of 17 but that just me. Ownership of ones life is dependent on many factors opportunity and chance have a lot to do with it. I dont this guy had much of either.

Einhard · 24-07-2010 05:01PM

The parents obviously have to share the burden of responsibility in cases like this, but I don't think that it's too much to ask that once the state take a child into care, they discharge their responsibility towards him or her in a reasonable manner. The parents of this boy clearly failed him, but the HSE did also. That's not a liberal thing to say, or an attempt to deflect blame, it's a statement of fact.

As for the remarks about the boy himself showing more responsibility, it is clear from the reports that he had serious mental issues from an early age, and that these were exacerbated by dysfunctional family circumstances. He didn't really stand much of a chance. Some people do seek to absolve the individual of personal responsibility and transfer it to the state, but equally, others, especially it seems in AH, show a rather callous disregard for individual circumstances. The reason this boy didn't make the right decisions was because he wasn't equipped to make them. For this, his family are primarily responsible, but the state also have to accept some blame. They had him for 5 years, and failed to provide him with the most basic of needs- a secure, stable environment in which to live.

the Cork teen tragedy

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