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Nicolas Roche Tour Diary in the independent

245

Comments

  • #32
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    buffalo wrote: »
    Just came across these - Roche's video diaries.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=konUE4OaUgE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPYnBYViQGY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM5LDUWqSyE

    edit: and part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmmiNQ4xz64

    Gotta love this one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wayLFTzyffE&feature=related

    Low lit room, a half naked guy rubbing you down and whats the most inappropriate song to come on? Check it out at 35 seconds in. Brilliant and not a bit suspicious :)


  • #33
    drogdub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 487 ✭✭drogdub


    ROK ON wrote: »
    Not much of a team. I said it last year and I will repeat it, if he wants to improve he needs to move to a team with better structures, ambitions and riders. I can see how hour will ever amount to much at the ragtag bunch of journeymen.

    This raises a question i have that some of the more knowledgeable posters might be able to answer. Of the three irish pros is Roche the best? Is that why he is in the Tour? Or is it that Deignan or Martin are in much better teams, with more internal competition and are they better than Roche, but he is in the Tour because he is on a weaker team with less internal competition?


  • #34
    JacksonHeightsOwn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    Lumen wrote: »
    You know that Roche is basically French, right?

    ok, he hasn't got turnbuckles on his shoes, he hasn't got red hair, and he doesnt say Begorra,

    BUT

    he's got an irish passport, an irish daddy, and a posh D4 accent

    he's a paddy :D


  • #35
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    drogdub wrote: »
    This raises a question i have that some of the more knowledgeable posters might be able to answer. Of the three irish pros is Roche the best? Is that why he is in the Tour? Or is it that Deignan or Martin are in much better teams, with more internal competition and are they better than Roche, but he is in the Tour because he is on a weaker team with less internal competition?

    I am not sure. What I would say I'd the following, Roche had high aspirations to be a more successful cyclist. He seems to train seriously and has lost weight etc. He has several top20 places in big races. However a win thus far seems elusive. IMHO if you aspire to be the team leader you have to actually win stuff.

    Deignan seems to have no such aspirations and it would seem that he would be happy to be a top domestique who is sometimes allowed to go for a win.
    Despite that he has a stage win and top10 placing in a grand tour.

    Martin seems to have some talent at climbing plus he fid very well in Lombardy last year. Plus two years ago he had a very successful year as a first year pro.

    I don't know where Roche is, it seems as if he is a nearly man. I would prefer him to really concentrate on what he is good at, charging ahead in breakaways. He is neither a sprinter or climber, but in a breakaway is strong enough at both that he could bag some victories.
    Roches goal of top15 was a poor one IMO. Ask youtself would placing in top 15 have made his tour more successful than that of Riblon, Casar, Voeckler, Chavanel.
    I don't know what Martin Earleys best tour placing was, but by Christ I remember his stage win.


  • #36
    greendom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    alibabba wrote: »
    Typical french arrogance. What a day though. Great tour this year

    Nonsense - it was the actions of an individual and so a bit unfair to damn a whole nation - as there are plenty of French riders in most teams how do team rules work at all ?


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  • #37
    Liamo08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭Liamo08


    ROK ON wrote: »
    I don't know what Martin Earleys best tour placing was, but by Christ I remember his stage win.

    Ah now you're talking a great day indeed. My favourite tour as well I remember, loved the site of Kelly pulling on 3 jersey's at the end of some of the stages looking like he was gonna melt. :D


  • #38
    shaungil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭shaungil


    alibabba wrote: »
    Typical french arrogance. What a day though. Great tour this year

    Talking about this today. Why are the french rubbishg at cycling now. Top guy just in top 20, can't temember a decent one since Virenque. Do remember Fignon Mottet and Hinault.
    Should they not be better or are they scared cos the gendarmes are tougher than other nations . Or am I being a cynic or were they always poor with a few brilliant exceptions.

    just wondering......


  • #39
    niceonetom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    shaungil wrote: »
    Talking about this today. Why are the french rubbishg at cycling now. Top guy just in top 20, can't temember a decent one since Virenque. Do remember Fignon Mottet and Hinault.
    Should they not be better or are they scared cos the gendarmes are tougher than other nations . Or am I being a cynic or were they always poor with a few brilliant exceptions.

    just wondering......

    They've won 6 stages. That ain't bad.


  • #40
    shaungil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭shaungil


    niceonetom wrote: »
    They've won 6 stages. That ain't bad.

    GC brutal. Last French winner was in the 80's

    It's been agreed this is the best French results in years hence why the conversation arose. But is this the re-birth and why the slump for so long. If there was a slump???


  • #41
    niceonetom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    In a word, doping.

    But that's an issue for another thread.


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  • #42
    shaungil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭shaungil


    cheers kind of what I thought


  • #43
    del88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭del88


    Great article today.....shades of paul kimmage.


  • #44
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    shaungil wrote: »
    cheers kind of what I thought
    Post-festina particularly, the French authorities cracked down. So everyone moved to Spain.


  • #45
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Trekmad wrote: »
    What was the story behind that image?

    Protesting ship yard workers - one of them had a bike with them and Hinault asked to borrow it to go for a spin - the worker said "non"!

    http://prollyisnotprobably.com/2010/03/bernard_hinaults_punch_at_the.php

    There's some video there as well


  • #46
    Morrisseeee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,147 ✭✭✭Morrisseeee


    Todays article, 'It's been three weeks of suffering and stress. Now, I've had enough' , so he was actually with the initial breakaway group yesterday but fell back, kinda explains his bizare movements early on.


  • #47
    on_the_nickel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭on_the_nickel


    ROK ON wrote: »
    I don't know where Roche is, it seems as if he is a nearly man. I would prefer him to really concentrate on what he is good at, charging ahead in breakaways. He is neither a sprinter or climber, but in a breakaway is strong enough at both that he could bag some victories.
    Roches goal of top15 was a poor one IMO. Ask youtself would placing in top 15 have made his tour more successful than that of Riblon, Casar, Voeckler, Chavanel.
    I don't know what Martin Earleys best tour placing was, but by Christ I remember his stage win.

    In fairness he's only just gone 26 and it's his second tour. He's not yet at his peak, and if he wants to focus on more than just being a breakaway rider, then fair play to him.

    He's held his own with some of the better climbers in the peloton on every mountain day and with a bit of luck, or help from his team, he'd be pushing top 10.


  • #48
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,493 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    on_the_nickel wrote: »
    He's held his own with some of the better climbers in the peloton on every mountain day and with a bit of luck, or help from his team, he'd be pushing top 10.

    Yes, this tour has been savage. Lots of very talented climbers falling off the back. Look at Basso - he was doing OK early on but I think he's basically in pieces at this point, and he won the Giro. For all the talk of the difficulty of peaking for two tours, I think its more a reflection on just how tough this tour has been for everyone (apart from Vino).

    I think Roches performance has been amazing.


  • #49
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    Lumen wrote: »
    Yes, this tour has been savage. Lots of very talented climbers falling off the back. Look at Basso - he was doing OK early on but I think he's basically in pieces at this point, and he won the Giro. For all the talk of the difficulty of peaking for two tours, I think its more a reflection on just how tough this tour has been for everyone (apart from Vino).

    I think Roches performance has been amazing.

    Totally agree. I think people are cutting into him a bit too much. He has just gone 26 which is the when most are only starting to show signs of winning stuff. Give the man time he is doing fantastic.


  • #50
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    I am not cutting into Nico just opining that his goals were IMO poor ones.
    He is capable of better, but it is undeniable that if he wants to have that type of success he craves that he does need to start winning.
    Other riders significantly younger than he are putting together pretty impressive palmares. Sagan, Kruizinger, Cavendish, Schleck etc etc.
    His dad was a well established cyclist at 26.
    I think that targeting a win at some shorter stage races, Paris Nice, Dauphine etc maybe an achievable goal. But for a Grand Tour I think he should focus on stage wins.


  • #51
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,672 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    iregk wrote: »
    Totally agree. I think people are cutting into him a bit too much. He has just gone 26 which is the when most are only starting to show signs of winning stuff. Give the man time he is doing fantastic.

    Contador is 27 and Schleck is 24 FTR


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  • #52
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    Oh I'm well aware of the ages of the main two but its also my opinion that they are in a different class than anyone else. I honestly think in a few years we will be looking back at AC and talking about him in the same stature as Indurain, Merckx etc...

    Shleck could well be in that category as well but he needs to avoid the tag of the new Jan in the coming years.


  • #53
    deeno1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭deeno1975


    iregk wrote: »
    Shleck could well be in that category as well but he needs to avoid the tag of the new Jan in the coming years.

    The tour is not over yet... tomorrow is going to be a massive day and we've seen Contador crack before... think I'll conjure up a day off :(

    Hats off to Nicolas, his articles have been a breath of fresh air and it's great to get the inside track on le tour. On hind sight he may have been better off going for stages than GC but it's all a learning process.


  • #54
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Some riders develop quickly, others improve steadily year after year. Some younger riders have also the benefits of different, ahem, "preparation" to others;)

    Going for top 15 in only his second Tour would be a steady base to build on. The logical next step is top 10 and after that who knows? Either way, once you top ten you're kind of into the elite level of riders.

    Unless you're a sprinter, stage hunting is a bit of a lottery. You've got to get into the right break, on a day when you have the legs and even then could lose out by a nose in the sprint. The fact that he's come so close before illustrates this.

    He's been a bit unlucky this year, but I can't really fault his strategy.


  • #55
    dastardly00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,618 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    deeno1975 wrote: »
    Hats off to Nicolas, his articles have been a breath of fresh air and it's great to get the inside track on le tour. On hind sight he may have been better off going for stages than GC but it's all a learning process.


    +1 Totally agree!


  • #56
    Nisio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Nisio


    Are any of the other riders doing similar pieces for the papers?


  • #57
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    Nisio wrote: »
    Are any of the other riders doing similar pieces for the papers?

    This guy gives short updates on his official site but not for a couple of days now.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



  • #58
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    I'd agree with el tonto's line of reasoning there - as a learning experience it's been quite positive for Roche and will hopefully help him progress to becoming a top 10 rider. Fully agree that he should go after some wins in shorter races, but if he was to finish in top 20 in his second Tour with relatively poor support from his team, I think it'd bode well for him being able to move up a notch in a better team. Can see how he needs to win a few races or major stages in order to earn that spot on a better team.

    Surprised to see so many people agreeing that going after a stage win here and there would be a better career progression move than learning the different strategy that goes with aiming for a top GC position. If I was in the position to be a pro rider, I'd personally be interested in telling the grandkids 'I finished in the Top 10, with the best of the best, ahead of about 200 other top pros' than 'I finished over an hour down, but I did win a stage, yep one twentieth of the tour, and that was at least in part down to the top pros regarding me as so insignificant that they didn't bother to reign in my breakaway'.

    Have to say I love Roche's diary updates and his undiluted honesty is refreshing. Likewise Bradley Wiggins - having seen his sheer honesty in the interview on ITV over the past few days, I have the utmost respect for the guy: there's not many pros in the upper echelons of many sports that take personal accountability and don't look to blame anyone else for their shortcomings.


  • #59
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    It's worth noting too that one week races are no cakewalk and are usually won by serious operators. Contador owns Paris-Nice at the moment and if you look at the winners of the other ones there are a lot of big names like Kreuziger, Schleck, Cancellera, Valverde, Kloeden etc. Good and all as Roche is, could anyone see him beating Brajkovic in the form he was in at the Dauphine for example?

    Roche has said before that one of his strengths is his ability to recover. That's important in stage racing, even more so in Grand Tours. We saw it last year in the Tour and this year he's still plugging away near enough the front. In that sense, he's trying to play to his strengths.

    In future years I'd love to see him give the Ardennes classics a good rattle as I think he's really suited to them (he can climb and has a good sprint) and it shouldn't affect his Tour preparations too much.


  • #60
    Hungrycol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,246 ✭✭✭Hungrycol


    FrankGrimes wrote: »
    Likewise Bradley Wiggins - having seen his sheer honesty in the interview on ITV over the past few days, I have the utmost respect for the guy: there's not many pros in the upper echelons of many sports that take personal accountability and don't look to blame anyone else for their shortcomings.

    Cycling is if nothing else, humbling.


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  • #61
    Nisio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 630 ✭✭✭Nisio


    Captain Havoc wrote: »
    This guy gives short updates on his official site but not for a couple of days now.

    poor guy must have run out of phone credt to txt in his updates. You'd think his team would help him out...


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