Tipperary Venue Thread

Amtmann · 31-05-2010 5:36pm #1

Ok, so for those who don't know, last winter an announcement was made that a massive casino, racetrack (horse and greyhound) and golf course would be constructed of the M8 junction 5 (Thurles North). There was a lot of news in the media about it when the launch took place at the Horse and Jockey. The location is good at only about 1hr from both Cork and the M50.

Has anyone heard any updates about it? Last I heard it went to North Tipp Co Co for planning approval.

Pat65 · 31-05-2010 10:48pm

North Tipperary County Council's planning department sought further information on the proposals. As a result the planning application is now on hold awaiting a reply from the applicant.

Pat

Amtmann · 31-05-2010 10:58pm

I see. I really hope this goes ahead - the concert venue, horse track and golf club at least. The M8 makes this a great location between the two biggest cities, and lord knows Tipp needs boost.

jonnybravo · 01-06-2010 10:04am

Only way I can see it going ahead is if it gets the Casino which I think requires a change in law but I presume thats why Lowry was brought on board.

macjohn · 01-06-2010 5:35pm

I presume if this went ahead the motorway junction would have to be amended to a full junction?

Anybody know why:
1. It is only a "half" junction?
2. If the bridge is wide enough for two way traffic?

Amtmann · 01-06-2010 11:32pm

macjohn wrote: »

I presume if this went ahead the motorway junction would have to be amended to a full junction?

Anybody know why:
1. It is only a "half" junction?
2. If the bridge is wide enough for two way traffic?

It would have to be completed to form a diamond interchange. The bridge carries the startpoint of the N75 and it is wide enough for bi-directional traffic.

As to why the NRA built a restricted access junction 5, it was typical NRA short-sightedness. Probably the idea was that no one travelling from the south would want to access Thurles north (most would indeed use junction 6 at Horse and Jockey, but there is such a thing as future-proofing and the NRA have a proven track-record of not doing this).

jonnybravo · 02-06-2010 12:08am

Think they've plans to upgrade it to a full junction and also to have a link road built off the junction to bring traffic to the venue, bringing traffic accross the old main road

Amtmann · 02-06-2010 3:43pm

jonnybravo wrote: »

Think they've plans to upgrade it to a full junction and also to have a link road built off the junction to bring traffic to the venue, bringing traffic accross the old main road

Correct. Thurles would need its N62 bypass pushed through too methinks.

All in all though, I think the plan does have real merit: The concert venue, golf course, and new tracks would be a great addition. There is much scoffing at the scale of the project though. It could turn out to be a massive white elephant, but there is much ignorance being spouted about Two-Mile-Borris as a location. In fact, it is a brilliant location. The thing that worries me though is the lack of an update, given the scheme was launched with such a fanfare last autumn.

archtech · 06-06-2010 1:03am

The timeframe for the applicant's is close to run out at this stage less than 3 weeks from them to respond, unless they seek a 3 month extension.

The biggest problem for the planning authority and developers is the zoning of the land at present. Its zoned agricultural. While some elements of the development could be permitted and granted, the commercial side of things (conference centre/hotel/casino etc) would not be permiited under the current zoning, and if granted permission, would most liked be refused permission by AN Bord Pleanala. There is a new development plan due, so I would not be surprised that the planning application was lodged, with the view to getting the lands rezoned and then a fresh planning application lodged if and when the lands were zoned for the development.

The NRA have a detailed submission on file objection to the proposals, as do a number of other parties. The NRA are opposed to the access and further development of the interchange, as it could/would result in excessive queuing on the M8.

I do think the lack of public transport will be a stumbling block for the conference centre, one only has to look at An Bord Pleanala files in relation to the conference centre at Citywest. Mansfield ended up having to contribute significantly toworks extending the LUAS to Citywest.

annfield1978 · 13-07-2010 7:31pm

The application was granted a 3 month extension, due to Archaeology survey having to be carried out

annfield1978 · 13-07-2010 7:38pm

macjohn wrote: »

I presume if this went ahead the motorway junction would have to be amended to a full junction?

Anybody know why:
1. It is only a "half" junction?
2. If the bridge is wide enough for two way traffic?

1. The other half of interchange along with a link to the old N8 was designed up at preliminary stage but the cost benefit analysis deemed it surplus to requirements plus the other access points to Thurles at Horse and Jockey

2. Bridge is wide enough, splays at entry to roundabout would require tweaking to allow 2 way flow

dushflan · 16-07-2010 11:46am

Just in relation to the Tipperary Venue - I am renting my house in Two-Mile Borris at the moment and the tenant is moving out next month. Would I be foolish to put it up for sale now, should I wait for planning to come through? Its a 2-bed bungalow very close to the proposed new venue which would make it ideal as a holiday home or rental investment????

Sigma Force · 21-07-2010 11:54pm

@Dushflan we're in a similar position, our house is down the road from the venue, little bit further than you but we're hoping that if the Casino etc. goes through that it will help house sales. But to be honest atm houses aren't budging, very few around here seem to be selling.

I'd wait perhaps keep your lease short so that you could get someone to rent on the short term that way you'd still have the rental income but not have to wait an age for them to finish their lease should the Casino etc. go ahead.

I've a feeling it's going to be a long way off still, hoping it won't but nothing happens quickly round here.

dushflan · 22-07-2010 9:18am

Have the sign up saying for sale or rent so I'll see waht happens but you're right, nothing happens quickly around here especially when planning is involved. . . . thanks for reply:)

Sigma Force · 23-07-2010 12:03am

Heard today that it's all going ahead so fingers crossed.

dushflan · 23-07-2010 9:23am

If you don't mind me asking, where did you hear that and when do you think they'll announce it?

Sigma Force · 25-07-2010 12:46am

From a local postie they always get the latest goss, mostly they get things right, so fingers crossed it is. Am going to see if I can find out more.

Pat65 · 26-07-2010 9:33am

Further information submitted to North Tipperary County Council on July 19th. Decision due on August 12th though I would expect the matter to end up with An Bord Pleanala anyway.

dushflan · 27-07-2010 10:01am

Great - keep me posted, thanks:)

Amtmann · 22-08-2010 1:32am

Updates?

jonnybravo · 22-08-2010 11:07pm

Furet wrote: »

Updates?

Report in the Tipperary Star this week - planning permission due to be granted in Sept

http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/Tipp-Venue-Hold-Up-Rumours.6480796.jp

dushflan · 24-08-2010 9:24am

Thanks a million for the update:)

Sigma Force · 24-08-2010 9:24pm

Looking posative so far so, not great for the environment though hope they do a lot of planting and don't turn it in to a concrete jungle.

Not sure if this is realistically going to have much of an effect on house rental/sales. Am hoping it will of course but not sure if the demand for houses in the area is going to be massive, what do you rekon dushflan?

dushflan · 25-08-2010 9:10am

The employment this project will bring to the area is badly needed between the employment involved in construction and then running the place. This in turn will bring loads of new people around the area, some for short term rental and others for sales or long term rental. There will also be a few with a bit of money involved in or interested in this kind of entertainment that may be interested in buying holidays homes (well I'm hoping anyway) and with the size of my property it'd be ideal for this sort of thing. Oh its hard to know for sure but I definitely think it'll bring good things to the area!!

Sigma Force · 26-08-2010 10:42pm

Here's hoping, downside with our place is that although the house would be perfect as a holiday home/rental or buy the garden is huge so it might rule out rental or holiday home crowd. But sure we can but try.

Who knows might get a job out of it lol

dushflan · 27-08-2010 9:19am

Ah you'd never know, a big garden may appeal to some!! Best of luck on Jobfront

Amtmann · 28-08-2010 12:35pm

My intention when starting this thread was to discuss the idea of the venue, its progress through the planning system, and its affect on Tipp and the country more generally. I didn't start the thread so people could speculate about how they could personally enrich themselves from the project, if at all.

Sigma Force · 28-08-2010 8:30pm

Sorry for hi-jacking thread op.

Surely the affect on individuals is important though the venue could effect us directly, we have been trying to sell our house long before the venue news came about and I don't see the harm in hoping that the venue will increase the chances. The more of a chance there is or an individual gaining employment the more they can afford to give back to their area.

It will effect many people in the area who are in the same position as myself in that many are trying to sell their houses (with not much luck) and many are looking for jobs.
It's all connected, more jobs means perhaps the area will improve, better local roads, more buisness for local small buisness owners. It's all to do with progress down to the individual.

Amtmann · 10-10-2010 7:02pm

Seems they still haven't submitted the outstanding information to the council.

The plans are visible here (click the "view scanned files" button):

You'll need to download this free tool to view the files.

beagga · 10-10-2010 10:42pm

Furet wrote: »

Seems they still haven't submitted the outstanding information to the council.

Maybe I'm picking it up wrong Furet but it says on that page the second lot of further info was requested on the 9/9/2010 and received on the 20/9/2010 with a decision due on the 14/11/2010

Amtmann · 10-10-2010 11:44pm

beagga wrote: »

Maybe I'm picking it up wrong Furet but it says on that page the second lot of further info was requested on the 9/9/2010 and received on the 20/9/2010 with a decision due on the 14/11/2010

No I think you are right actually. Lots of big developments are awaiting planning approval announcements in the next month it seems: the M20, Metro North and now the Tipperary Venue. Whether it will happen or not is still anyone's guess... but it's a good sign to see that the planning process is on-going. I am astounded by the scale of the project... the retail element has been removed so as not to undermine businesses in Thurles and Cashel, which is fair enough I think.

beagga · 11-10-2010 12:13am

It certainly will be interesting to see how quick this will start if planning is approved, especially in the current economic climate.
I would agree with you Furet the retail element being removed can only be a good thing for the surronding towns, No point in approving one place to close everyone else.

jonnybravo · 12-10-2010 2:12am

Does anyone know whether Quirky has gotten funding in place for building this? I don't think he has the capacity himself to fund it so I understood he was looking for backers to buy into it.

Anyone know whether he has gotten anyone behind him or is he going to try and get planning permission first and then try and fund it?

Thanks.

Wes430 · 27-10-2010 1:56pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcxjPazFB2w

apoeiguq3094y · 27-10-2010 5:59pm

Wes430 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcxjPazFB2w

the voice-over sounds like something from the 1980s....

Cat Melodeon · 29-10-2010 2:58am

There is a public meeting and presentation regarding the latest 'Venue' developments taking place in the Horse & Jockey Hotel on Monday 1 November at 8pm. Advertised on the front page of the Tipp Star.

flipall · 29-10-2010 10:44am

No doubt it would be great if it went ahead but looks a little too good to be true for Tipperary

Amtmann · 29-10-2010 2:30pm

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

the voice-over sounds like something from the 1980s....

The voice-over is terrible. You think he'd have hired a professional voice actor for the video.
I read that the retail development aspect of the project has been (rightly) eliminated. Also, the NRA are deeply unhappy with the affect the Tipperary Venue (TV) will have on the M8, N62 and N75 in terms of traffic congestion.
According to the video planning permission has been approved; but North Tipp's e-plan website says a decision won't be made until 14 November.
There has been no progress made on casino legislation either - another obstacle to construction.

TimmyTarmac · 29-10-2010 4:29pm

Did I hear the incredibly dull voice over say that there would be a Chapel on the Tipperary Venue site? I don't think the local Parish Priest will be too happy about that - unless he gets something from the collection plate.

Dead right about the Casino legislation too, Furet. Unless someone in the consortium is cock-sure about how that will change in their favour.

Who exactly is that replica White House aimed at? US tourists or slack-jawed Irish gawkers?
What would be wrong with a more tasteful memorial or exhibition to Hoban the architect?

Cat Melodeon · 29-10-2010 8:48pm

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Did I hear the incredibly dull voice over say that there would be a Chapel on the Tipperary Venue site? I don't think the local Parish Priest will be too happy about that - unless he gets something from the collection plate.

As far as the chapel is concerned, it will be nondenominational, the same as the facilities that hotels and other venues can provide for wedding services etc under the liberalised marriage laws. As such, I doubt they'll be offering Sunday morning mass for the gamblers and I doubt the local parishes will miss out on much.

apoeiguq3094y · 29-10-2010 10:17pm

Furet wrote: »

Also, the NRA are deeply unhappy with the affect the Tipperary Venue (TV) will have on the M8, N62 and N75 in terms of traffic congestion.

Rightly so, apart from the M8, traffic around the Thurles region is terrible. Badly need to build a link road to the Templemore and Borrisoleigh roads or a ringroad around the town.

While it is well placed beside the M8, getting to anywhere east or west of there would be on B roads. Especially to Shannon airport. If its based on being well linked to dublin, why build it so far away?

Would love to see a large development that might anchor some future growth in Tipp, but maybe even placing it close to the N24-M8 interchange would give it better access to more of the country.

macjohn · 01-11-2010 7:26pm

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Rightly so, apart from the M8, traffic around the Thurles region is terrible. Badly need to build a link road to the Templemore and Borrisoleigh roads or a ringroad around the town.

While it is well placed beside the M8, getting to anywhere east or west of there would be on B roads. Especially to Shannon airport. If its based on being well linked to dublin, why build it so far away?

Would love to see a large development that might anchor some future growth in Tipp, but maybe even placing it close to the N24-M8 interchange would give it better access to more of the country.

AFAIK the link road between the Templemore Road and the Borrisoleigh/Nenagh Road is currently being worked on. (Think the rest of the ringroad is on hold)
Suppose coming from Shannon airport could pop off at Nenagh and over to Thurles but still have to go through the town as the new link road wont help (good discussion over on infrastructure about getting from m7 to m8 and basically getting traffic to go through the toll and no easy link. Also on first page of this thread furet has a link to the n62 thurles bypass)

Suppose he owns the land in two mile borris now so unlikely to move closer to the n24/m8 interchange.

Heard the plan was to fly the big rollers in from the airports
And for concerts wont be alot worse than getting to slane!! (and think max for concerts is 15,000 anyway)

beagga · 01-11-2010 11:51pm

460m cultural and leisure centre gets go-ahead in Tipperary
Monday, November 01, 2010 - 05:40 PM

A €460m sporting, cultural and leisure development has been given the green light by North Tipperary County Council.

The Tipperary Venue - which will be located outside the village of Two-Mile-Borris - will create 2,000 permanent jobs.

It will include a 500-room, five-star hotel-casino, a racecourse, an all-weather flood-lit track, a greyhound track and a 15,000-seater underground entertainment venue.

More than 1,000 people will be employed annually over the three years of construction and a further 2,000 full-time jobs will be created when the facility opens.

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/business/460m-cultural-and-leisure-centre-gets-go-ahead-in-tipperary-480006.html

Also rte news video here

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1101/thetipperaryvenue.html

Cat Melodeon · 02-11-2010 11:39am

Was anyone at the meeting on Monday night?

Any idea what the procedure is now re. the legislation and how likely it is to happen/within what timeframe ?

Amtmann · 27-11-2010 2:23am

AN TAISCE is appealing against the planning approval granted last month for a proposed €460 million casino, sports and leisure venue in Co Tipperary.

According to An Taisce, the development planned by businessman Richard Quirke would contravene national, regional and local authority development plan policies on sustainable development.

North Tipperary County Council have granted planning permission to Mr Quirke for the large-scale development – named the Tipperary Venue – on a 900-acre site at Two-Mile-Borris outside Thurles.

A former garda, Mr Quirke is the owner of the Dr Quirkey’s Goodtime Emporium amusement and gaming arcade on Dublin’s O’Connell Street and has the support of independent TD for North Tipperary, Michael Lowry.

They say the development will provide 2,000 jobs when complete and 1,000 jobs during construction.

The businessman wants to build a 500-bedroom hotel, 15,000-seat entertainment venue, international equestrian centre, casino, new turf and all-weather horseracing track, greyhound racing circuit and a replica of the White House as a tribute to the Kilkenny-born architect of the iconic Washington building, James Hoban.

In their 17-page appeal, An Taisce point out that there is no legislation allowing for a casino in this country and say that Mr Quirke’s application is based on “an unsustainable development model of dependence on air travel from all over the world and car dependence for visitors from within Ireland”.

They say that a number of the project’s features, particularly the entertainment venue, would be better suited to one of Munster’s three gateway cities – Cork, Limerick and Waterford.

An Taisce also say the proposal is in contravention of the National Spatial Strategy, the Mid-West Regional Planning Guidelines, the county development plan, the transport guidelines and fails to address Failte Ireland’s environmental action plan for tourism.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1127/1224284261061.html

As expected, An Taisce have appealed the decision to grant planning.

jonnybravo · 29-11-2010 2:55am

Was to be expected. I presume the owners knew this was going to come too and had built it into their timeline.

I'd also agree that it doesn't make sense to grant planning permission for a Casino when they're illegal in Ireland.

With the current government leaving too I wonder what impact will this have on the licensing of the Casino - I presumed that was the reason why Lowry was on board - him being in government would get the law changed - very unlikely he'll be in any government come next year. Interesting times ahead for this project.

beagga · 29-11-2010 3:20pm

Thought this was coming.

I do agree interesting times ahead alright.

Whatever about Lowry involved now or in future I suppose any north Tipp politician in government would be delighted to get the change in the law that could get this started and then claim the credit for 2000 jobs.

mikep · 25-01-2011 9:53am

An oral hearing is going to be held: http://examiner.ie/ireland/public-hearing-ordered-into-460m-casino-plan-143072.html

Cat Melodeon · 27-01-2011 2:48pm

This from Michael Lowry's website:

€450 million Two Mile Borris project goes to oral hearing 25th January 2011 I can confirm that An Bord Pleanala have decided to hold an oral hearing in response to the objection placed by An Taise and 3 others to the decision of Tipperary North Planning Authority to grant planning permission to the Tipperary Venue. I hugely welcome this decision, as it will provide for a quick efficient process to deal with the appeal.
An Bord Pleanala will appoint an inspector and it is expected that the appeal will be heard in public at a local venue within the next six weeks. It is anticipated that the hearing will last for 2 to 3 days. The objectors will have the opportunity to outline in public their concerns and make supporting arguments for their case to stop the development. The project promoters will put forward reasons as to the strength and validity of the development.
On the conclusion of the hearing the inspector prepares a report and recommendation which will be put to the full membership of An Bord Pleanala for decision. It is expected that we will have a conclusive and final decision in June.
It is ultimately now a decision for the independent authority, An Bord Pleanala but I confident that this process will uphold, on merit, the decision taken to grant permission by Tipp NR County Council.
The Tipperary North Planning Authority had over a 12 month period conducted a thorough examination of every aspect of the application. After exhaustive critical analysis and taking into account the reservations and concerns of objectors it decided to give a very comprehensive and favourable planning decision.
I earnestly hope that this final obstacle can be overcome because this project is of crucial importance to Tipperary and the mid west region. The development which is ready to proceed will generate 1000 jobs at construction phase and create up to 2000 permanent jobs. It would give a massive stimulus to the local economy and generate economic wealth for the area and region.

Other local politicians seem to see this as a non-issue. Good for jobs if it goes ahead but pie-in-the-sky for now, not something they want to become involved in. Can't see Lowry having as much influence in the next Dáil as he has had in this one, wonder if it will affect the project's progress?

MinnyMinor · 08-03-2011 12:44pm

Two Mile Vegas in the news. Hearing going on today

http://www.thurles.info/2011/02/09/super-casino-to-get-oral-hearing/

mikep · 09-03-2011 11:38am

Anyone know of anybody at the oral hearing??

Would be interesting to see how it is going from someone actually there....

Tipperary Venue Thread

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