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Americans and soccer

  • 12-07-2010 12:05AM
    #1
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭


    I doubt too many care, but my time is split between here and the states, and well... throughout my childhood, i always thought the yanks were off their rocker not being fans of our beloved sport.

    Now... I can see their point. First of all, every American Soccer fan on earth is wondering why they had a goal disallowed against slovenia -- in their world, refereeing has a degree of accuracy, and culpability.

    More importantly, they've just had a super bowl with records broken, with some of the greatest to ever play the game in it, and some of the greatest ever not even getting that far -- Like Cruyff Pele and Maradona trying to squeeze into two final spots. The sport is ever-increasingly improving (unlike ours). In the NBA finals, we saw a true great (the only guy in the WC Nike ad with any success) drag his team through a final where through 7 games they spent the last 56 minutes behind, until they won in the last 4 (again in an era where their version of Maradona isn't even in the finals).

    What do we get, for the once every four year masterpiece of our sport ... we get this slop tonight!!

    Don't expect too many to agree with me, but at least now we can stop giving a fcuk why America doesn't like Soccer.

    QED


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Comments

  • #2
    Paul Tergat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,796 ✭✭✭✭Paul Tergat


    football >>> any american sport.


  • #3
    JPA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,837 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    So they don't like it because they like other stuff? OK.


  • #4
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,062 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    LeBron James is doing as much to tarnish the NBA as anyone in the World Cup, according to my American sports-fan mates.


  • #5
    Oat23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,588 ✭✭✭✭Oat23


    pickarooney wrote: »
    LeBron James is doing as much to tarnish the NBA as anyone in the World Cup, according to my American sports-fan mates.

    Cleveland natives are they?


  • #6
    Pauleta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Pauleta


    The USA had the biggest number of supporters at the World Cup in the 1st round and sold more jerseys per head for population than any other country in the lead up to the World Cup. I think the OP opinion on football fans in America is about 15 years out of date.


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  • #7
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    I could have written one line as well, lads. That would have been easy. Less easy would be to describe the merits of this sport vs any other.

    I've Walter Mittyed my life as a Soccer star since I was seven years old. I've cried like a baby when United and Ireland have lost, I've obsessed as much as anyone on this thread ... but to be honest, the sport is a mess, as shown by the slop we viewed tonight. Soccer IS better than any AMerican sport, but it's being ferociously caught up. Disagree all you want, but until FIFA learn to oversee the game the way the NFL and the NBA do theirs, it'll suffer.


  • #8
    Mac Masters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭Mac Masters


    Meh, international football is muc, watch the CL or EPL, that's where the proper football is IMO. :D


  • #9
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    davyjose wrote: »
    I could have written one line as well, lads. That would have been easy. Less easy would be to describe the merits of this sport vs any other.

    I've Walter Mittyed my life as a Soccer star since I was seven years old. I've cried like a baby when United and Ireland have lost, I've obsessed as much as anyone on this thread ... but to be honest, the sport is a mess, as shown by the slop we viewed tonight. Soccer IS better than any AMerican sport, but it's being ferociously caught up. Disagree all you want, but until FIFA learn to oversee the game the way the NFL and the NBA do theirs, it'll suffer.


    In what way, is this going back to technology?


  • #10
    rubensni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭rubensni


    Soccer is already the most popular sport in the US in participation terms. Much easier to play soccer after work on a Thursday than set up a baseball diamond.

    As for the TV issue, with the proliferation of digital multi channel more and more people are getting dedicated sports channels as opposed to the old three channels (ABC, CBS & NBC) who would never show soccer as 45 minutes without an ad break is an eternity on terrestrial American TV.


  • #11
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Mac Masters wrote: »
    Meh, international football is muc, watch the CL or EPL, that's where the proper football is IMO. :D

    Spot on :D Roll on Arsenal V Barnet nxt saturday, happy days


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  • #12
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Pauleta wrote: »
    The USA had the biggest number of supporters at the World Cup in the 1st round and sold more jerseys per head for population than any other country in the lead up to the World Cup. I think the OP opinion on football fans in America is about 15 years out of date.

    Ah, but i agree Americans are embracing this sport. The complete non-decision against slovenia dominated US media coverage of the tournament though -- explain that one to them.

    It's us making these statements:
    p_larkin99 football >>> any american sport.
    So maybe we're 15 years behind?
    Also 6 posts in, you can address me, not the crowd!


  • #13
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,532 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    davyjose wrote: »
    I could have written one line as well, lads. That would have been easy. Less easy would be to describe the merits of this sport vs any other.

    I've Walter Mittyed my life as a Soccer star since I was seven years old. I've cried like a baby when United and Ireland have lost, I've obsessed as much as anyone on this thread ... but to be honest, the sport is a mess, as shown by the slop we viewed tonight. Soccer IS better than any AMerican sport, but it's being ferociously caught up. Disagree all you want, but until FIFA learn to oversee the game the way the NFL and the NBA do theirs, it'll suffer.
    Sorry Davy but I have to jump in here as regards the NBA and officiating. Its so bad it reminds me of professional wrestling.


  • #14
    Mac Masters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭Mac Masters


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Spot on :D Roll on Arsenal V Barnet nxt saturday, happy days

    Can't wait to see Arsenal back in action! :D It feels like I've been watching crappy international football for an eternity!


  • #15
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    davyjose wrote: »
    I could have written one line as well, lads. That would have been easy. Less easy would be to describe the merits of this sport vs any other.

    I've Walter Mittyed my life as a Soccer star since I was seven years old. I've cried like a baby when United and Ireland have lost, I've obsessed as much as anyone on this thread ... but to be honest, the sport is a mess, as shown by the slop we viewed tonight. Soccer IS better than any AMerican sport, but it's being ferociously caught up. Disagree all you want, but until FIFA learn to oversee the game the way the NFL and the NBA do theirs, it'll suffer.

    Great posts davyjose, you are spot on.

    The showpiece of the sport was tarnished by one team of thugs, and another team of whining cheaters.

    As soccer fans, we have become somewhat blind to the extent that cheating is tolerated.

    An outsider is not blinded to it though, and I can understand when I see people criticising the sport.

    People like Van Bommel and Busquets are ruining the sport. It's an unusual mix of hatchetmen and crybabies.

    Even the very best players in our sport are cheats - Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard, Rooney, Henry, etc etc etc.

    It's a mess.


  • #16
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Sorry Davy but I have to jump in here as regards the NBA and officiating. Its so bad it reminds me of professional wrestling.

    It could be worse, it could be as bad as the officiating we've seen in the world cup.


  • #17
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,448 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    davyjose wrote: »
    I doubt too many care, but my time is split between here and the states, and well... throughout my childhood, i always thought the yanks were off their rocker not being fans of our beloved sport.

    Now... I can see their point. First of all, every American Soccer fan on earth is wondering why they had a goal disallowed against slovenia -- in their world, refereeing has a degree of accuracy, and culpability.

    There is crap officiating in US sports as well. A few weeks ago in a baseball game a pitcher was denied a perfect game because of a horrendous call by an umpire. Or remember the hugely controversial refereeing in the superbowl between Pittsburgh and Seattle a few years ago. They have some dodgy reffing as well in fairness.


  • #18
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    #15 wrote:
    People like Van Bommel and Busquets are ruining the sport. It's an unusual mix of hatchetmen and crybabies.

    Even the very best players in our sport are cheats - Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard, Rooney, Henry, etc etc etc.

    It's a mess.

    Hasn't baseball been riddled with steroid-taking cheats for years now? Not familiar with NFL or basketball on that front by I know several of their star players have not been great role models either.

    As flawed as this sport is, and I agree it could be greatly improved, I'd take a flawed version of this sport over American sports like baseball, basketball and NFL any day of the week. They bore me to tears.


  • #19
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    I prefer watching the NFL to soccer tbh.It's entertaining if you can stick through it, and not get fed up like most people who watch it.All sports have bad refereeing though, with or without video technology, but I think that soccer is one of the worst tbh.


  • #20
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Sorry Davy but I have to jump in here as regards the NBA and officiating. Its so bad it reminds me of professional wrestling.

    I think you're being slightly disingeuous eagle eye, because you've picked one single aspect of american sports where I might be wrong.

    You know that for those of us that watch American Sports, we're in a Golden age -- you spend enough time in those forums to know that. But in terms of the mess FIFA are making of soccer, we're in the doldrums.

    This isn't a "Us V Them" thread, it's more a thread borne from the ****e we've seen the last few years. And American sports (or more pertinently American sports fans) are a good reference point. Because for the most part, they run their sports well.

    Thomas Mueller misses a semi final because he gets two yellows four games apart, that's the kind of gee-eyed, catch-all discipline this world cup had. No mediation, no intelligance involved, just bullsh!t, know-nothing rules.


  • #21
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    At least American sports have the excuse of TV ads for the reason they are "boring". What excuse has football?


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  • #22
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    There is crap officiating in US sports as well. A few weeks ago in a baseball game a pitcher was denied a perfect game because of a horrendous call by an umpire. Or remember the hugely controversial refereeing in the superbowl between Pittsburgh and Seattle a few years ago. They have some dodgy reffing as well in fairness.

    It's not just officiating though. The salary cap, the draft, you could argue these are systems that manipulate the sports, but they are designed to promote an evenness. But in the NFL (my favourite sport, behind football), the referees have GOT to explain their decision. A simple change like that could make a huge difference - again, just one example of why the sport is geared to at least TRY to promote fairness.

    It's sad I feel this way on the night of the world cup final, lads ... but I just fcuking do. And looking into the season ahead, I'm not exactly reeling with optimism.


  • #23
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Hasn't baseball been riddled with steroid-taking cheats for years now? Not familiar with NFL or basketball on that front by I know several of their star players have not been great role models either.

    As flawed as this sport is, and I agree it could be greatly improved, I'd take a flawed version of this sport over American sports like baseball, basketball and NFL any day of the week. They bore me to tears.

    If I read the OP right, it's not about which sport is better?

    But can't you see why Americans, or any neutral observer, would look at it and not feel too enthused about the whole sport?

    Cheats thrive and prosper in our sport.

    Baseball has had steroid problems, but weren't those players banned and are now disgraced?*
    Our cheats are walking around with medals, not getting banned. That's a huge problem.

    NFL and basketball do not have anything like the amount of cheating that soccer has.
    There are a few foreign players (from soccer playing countries) in the NBA who have brought diving into the sport. It's small-scale diving, but it drives everyone crazy, and rightly so. The US has a macho sports culture and such behaviour is as far from macho as possible.

    FWIW, American sports are great sports, even if they're not to your taste;)

    * I don't know a huge amount about the baseball steroid situation.


  • #24
    tolosenc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Agree with OP.

    But American sports still have their officiating errors like Armando Galaragga's not-so-perfect game in May (in fairness to the ump, he held his hands up after the game and apologised).

    The NHL has a rythm and intensity more akin to that of soccer, and FIFA could take a lot from how they do things.

    Cheating, and I'm not talking about Henry here, is another big reason why non-soccer-watching Americans don't take to it. It doesn't happen in their big sports, their national team were very decent in that regard. Something serious needs to be done about that. And while play like Spain's is "great football", for someone who doesn't watch the game a lot, it is off-putting. Conservative play, both in attack and defence is ruining the game as a spectacle.


  • #25
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Hasn't baseball been riddled with steroid-taking cheats for years now? Not familiar with NFL or basketball on that front by I know several of their star players have not been great role models either.

    As flawed as this sport is, and I agree it could be greatly improved, I'd take a flawed version of this sport over American sports like baseball, basketball and NFL any day of the week. They bore me to tears.

    With regard to that Super Bowl, there were changes made the very next season -- repeat the very NEXT season -- not ten years later. We're not asking for miracles.


  • #26
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,412 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    I completely agree with the OP!

    If i had spent my life watching US sports and one day caught my first Soccer game and saw someone like Busquets fall down clutching his face like he has been hit with an axe, i would actually be kinda angry!

    But it's the norm these days. Someone touches your neck, go down like you've been shot. Someone touches your leg, make as if you've just been shivved!

    You score a legit goal but it's disallowed OR a non-legit goal is scored against you, the decision stands when it's as clear as day that there is a very simple way to stop these kinds of things, and the response from the powers that be is "Well, people love to talk about controversial decisions around the water-cooler, so we should allow these unfair decisions to stand"

    The sport is a shambles!

    But not ALL "American" sports are bad. The most exciting sport in the world is arguably American.


  • #27
    tolosenc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    #15 wrote: »
    Baseball has had steroid problems, but weren't those players banned and are now disgraced?
    Our cheats are walking around with medals, not getting banned. That's a huge problem.

    Bingo. That's exactly what the difference is.

    Players were banned and disgraced. But then you get players about whom steroid use was suggested (Papi) and nothing was ever done


  • #28
    dor83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭dor83


    I honestly thin it depends on how you look at it and you are also comparing domestic sports in the US with international football, should you not compare it to domestic football in the top European leagues instead?

    If you were to do that I think football would come off a lot better than comparing to what has been a bad World Cup, look at the top 5 leagues in European football, the EPL had a very exciting title race and race for 4th, Serie A had it's most competitive season in years, Bundesliga is always competitive, Ligue 1 was unbelievable this year and la Liga was not bad either. Yes there are problems in the sport but the same problems have been around for years, the main one being FIFA and how they are run, and this has been a very bad WC but I think some people are over reacting to a bad final in particular because it is built up and over hyped so much.

    I think if you look at football over the past year as a whole it is still the same as it was 5 years ago, its all subjective though, I feel that this was a great season but that has a lot to do with Inter doing so well. I also can't stand watching American sports myself, too many ad breaks for me and that just wrecks my head.


  • #29
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Bingo. That's exactly what the difference is.

    Players were banned and disgraced. But then you get players about whom steroid use was suggested (Papi) and nothing was ever done

    Tbf, drug policies in the NFL are pretty bad.

    dor83 wrote: »
    I honestly thin it depends on how you look at it and you are also comparing domestic sports in the US with international football, should you not compare it to domestic football in the top European leagues instead?

    It's being compared to international football as for a lot of people, the only time they might watch football would be the world cup.If you're an American with little interest in soccer, watching your own sports all the time, and you watched some of the games in the WC, it's easy to understand why they'd never want to watch it again.

    The final tonight would be watched by a load of people who'd never watch football.Imo, tonight was not a good advertisement for the sport, whereas compared to the NBA finals this year and the Superbowl this year, which were both great for the sport imo


  • #30
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    dor83 wrote: »
    I honestly thin it depends on how you look at it and you are also comparing domestic sports in the US with international football, should you not compare domestic football in the top European leagues to it instead?

    .

    +1


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  • #31
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Well I don't think you can regulate playing styles but for the other stuff I totally agree.
    Something needs to be done about fairness. Having a go at the ref or trying to influence decisions must be punished harder. Only the captain actually speaks to the ref. Dives must be punished harder so must be playacting. Use TV to do it. Have FA officials review matches. Dives or rolling around clutching the ankle while slowmo shows you got a slight knock on the tigh - belated yellow card. When the ref is uncertain for critical decisions he may call for TV support like in rugby. Every team has two challenges per match that the captain can call and that must be video-reviewed by the ref on the spot. Something like that.
    It can't be right that cheating becomes normal part of the game. They'll be training that next.


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