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"Tbh, Tom Collins is probably the strongest internal candidate by a fair bit."
He is? What about current members of the senior managment team? the deputy president or the vice president for research for instance. I dunno if anyone here read the Irish Times articles the day after the announcement: they mentioned one internal person who they viewed as the strong contender and it wasn't Tom Collins!
Where did this Tom Collins fan club come from?
I do love Mark Boyle btw but he def doesn't have the necessary experience0 -
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Fair enough, Jane, though in my (again) personal opinion, I think people were just giving their own personal opinions rather than sock-puppeting or shilling. Collins would have a very high profile among those involved in education generally, both within and without the university, most especially in the adult and second-chance education sector but at all levels from primary to third-level. For that matter, Jim Walsh, the current deputy President, would be a well-recognised name outside the University in spatial planning and rural development, but that as a sectoral interest is significantly smaller. Mark Boyle is a relative newcomer from Scotland, so hasn't had time to build much of a public profile here ... on the other hand, though, he is probably better known among current undergraduates than either of the others mentioned.I have a few things I want to clarify from my earlier posts:
I was not intending to imply that Randylonghorn was a 'sockpuppet' campaigning for Tom Collins -it was actually earlier posts previous to his that I was a little suspicipus of. I was not crying conspirancy,merely expressing my confusion as to why people seemed to think Tom Collins was the strongest internal candidate when there are other more obvious names that haven't been mentioned. I obviously wasn't very clear about this and I apologise for any offense caused.
I'm pretty certain Collins is a member of the NUIM SMT, but do you know, I'm not a 100% certain when I think about it, so I won't claim to be!For your information I am fully aware that Tom Collins is currently the vice president for External Affairs. NUIM has a number of vice presidents now as a number of deans were promoted to vice president status a couple of years ago and I was under the impression that there is a seperate senior managment team which does not include all the vice presidents, just the vice president for research, the deputy president, the registrar, the bursar, the director of corporate affairs and the president. Mayb there is a disticntion between senior officers and senior managment. I could be out of date on this though and mayb all the vicepresidents are part of the senior officer team too. My point basically was though that while Tom Collins is a vice president, there are still a number of others who would be considered more senior and thus as stronger internal candidates for the job.
It would be very strange though if the VP for Research was, and the VP for External Affairs was not!
I agree that there are others more senior in terms of the SMT, and good people to boot, but I'm not sure that senior in years of membership necessarily means stronger candidates in this case.
I'm inclined to agree with the reason someone gave up above ... that NUIM is a (relatively) small university still finding its feet since the split from SPCM, and that they will look for outside blood to bring new ideas etc. I think they *need* to look for someone with a broad vision and a real flair for innovation, rather than a "safe pair of hands" ... which also partly informs my view on the internal candidates.But you're right in saying that it could well end up being an external candidate, although I would suggest that there are some reasons why an internal candidate becoming president is actually the most likely scenario this time.
The only real reason I can think of why they would prefer an internal candidate is that such a candidate is more likely to be with NUIM for the long haul ... is that what you're thinking, or have you other reasons for suggesting a preference for an internal candidate?
While I have often argued elsewhere that boards is coming more and more into the public eye (the LC forum which I mod myself is a classic example in just the last couple of months) I think you under-estimate the conservatism at *senior* levels in universities. However, it's an interesting thought.As regards the issue of whether a campaign on boards would have any effect on the outcome I would agree that it is very unlikely. However I would not be surprised at all by potential internal candidates or more likely someone on their behalf posting up messages on boards.ie to get some idea of what the general attitude to them is. If they see that they are being discussed positively here it could help them decide to run for it or vice versa. So I wouldn't dismiss the potential of this discussion!Its not just students who look at this site, you know!
Just ... 0 -
Well thats what I'm wondering! The Tom Collins stuff especially seems very detailed on his experienceI have a few things I want to clarify from my earlier posts:
I was not intending to imply that Randylonghorn was a 'sockpuppet' campaigning for Tom Collins -it was actually earlier posts previous to his that I was a little suspicipus of.
These were the only posts about Tom Collins previous to Randylonghorn's:Vinoveritas wrote: »I think Prof. Tom Collins is the man for the new job...charismatic, innovative, with vast experience garnered across a range of academic departments within Maynooth, and a number of years as Director of Dundalk Institute. I hope he puts his name in the hat!! Go Tom Collins!!Miss Lockhart wrote:I love Tom Collins! I could listen to him all day
I made a light hearted comment saying I enjoy listening to Tom Collins - hardly a campaign. :rolleyes: And I'd hardly consider either of these posts "very detailed" about anything. You must be a very suspicious person.I was not crying conspirancy,merely expressing my confusion as to why people seemed to think Tom Collins was the strongest internal candidate when there are other more obvious names that haven't been mentioned. I obviously wasn't very clear about this and I apologise for any offense caused.
Really? I'd call insinuating people are using boards to start a campaign, and replying to a comment about "sockpuppeting an agenda" with "Well that's what I'm wondering!" as crying conspiracy tbh.
I think it's pretty cheeky to come on to a site make such suggestions with only 3 posts to your name.0 -
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What I had noticed, but what you may not have, is that vinoveritas has "further education" listed as their occupation ... which is a sector where Collins would be very well known (among other things, he was one of the principal architects of the White Paper on Adult Education). Indeed, many in that sector would have viewed his move to Dundalk as a loss to the sector, and were delighted to see him return to Maynooth as Professor of Education.Ok I'm going to back off now and stay out of this discussion as I clearly am blundering and offending people left right and centre. I jsut want to clarify some things first.
To clarify it was the vinoveritas comment about his Dundalk experience that puzzled me as I wouldn't have thought that would be that widely known, but I was forgetting that its not just undergrads who post on this site and of course it would be well known to postgrads and staff in the education dept in NUIM as well as other areas.
Very true!None of us know anyway whether Tom Collins is interested in the job in the first place ...
One doesn't, and I'd normally be one of the first to jump to the defence of a newbie who was getting a hard time!I wasn't aware though that one had to have a certain numbe rof posts to ones name bfore they were entitled to engage in proper discussions here!
My apologies, but I was somewhat irritated by a casual post of mine simply saying that I (personally) would see Collins as the strongest internal candidate resulting in responses ranging from being being told I was silly to it being implied that I was a sock-puppet to being dragged into nonsensical arguments about Sarah Palin to ... well, read back for yourself! In fairness, you may have got caught in the cross-fire occasioned by one very opinionated person, and I apologise for that.
Let's start again, shall we?!
/extends hand
Hi, I'm Randy, and welcome to Boards!
Oh, and I would still be interested in your reasons for thinking they might opt for an internal candidate, btw?0 -
Thanks for the welcome Randy
You're right, I didn't see Vinoveritas's occupation -all makes much more sense now!
Yeah I think I may have jumped in at the wrong moment and totally see why you would have been sensitive to stuff I said after the Palin comments!
Now to your question:
I guess my main reason for thinking its more likely to be an internal position is the one you suggest:them wanting someone already loyal to NUIM who will be sure to stay the course. As we all know the university is heading for v difficult time from an economic point of view and no wrong steps can be afforded at the moment so an internal person who is already familiar with the people, the current projects and the general plan might seem like the more attractive choice to the interview board. As a small place NUIM has different challenges than the main universities so may not work for an outsider to try impose a UCD or DCU model for example. That said though as you say an outsider could bring fresh innovative ideas and may have an easier time making staff changes etc than someone already entrenched in the system. As you say we def don't want simply a safe pair of hands for the next ten years. As we all know Hughes was an outsider and I would reckon most people would agree that on balance he was a very good president and did a lot for the place.
Of course there's also the issue of whether anyone from outside will want the job given that its def not going to be an easy one at the moment!
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see Hopefully the interim president will be announced soon so we know whose ruled out anyway! 0 -
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Ok I'm going to back off now and stay out of this discussion as I clearly am blundering and offending people left right and centre. I jsut want to clarify some things first.
To clarify it was the vinoveritas comment about his Dundalk experience that puzzled me as I wouldn't have thought that would be that widely known, but I was forgetting that its not just undergrads who post on this site and of course it would be well known to postgrads and staff in the education dept in NUIM as well as other areas. That was a complete mistake on my part compounded by me replying over hastily to Eyesleft comment about sockpuppeting. Mayb I am just an overly suspicious person but I was just curious as I expected others to be the more obhvious topics for discussion here. Thats not to say that Tom Collins is not as strong a candidate or stronger but I just thought he was less likely to be putting his name in or to be discussed as a potential candidate. But again I underestimated others on boards in assuming they would only discuss the what I considered to be the obvious people. None of us know anyway whether Tom Collins is interested in the job in the first place so was a bit silly for me to jump into an argument on this really.
Oh and I should have read over previous posts properly before referring to them, I was under the impression there was more to them but again I was wrong.
Thank you for clarifying your position.I wasn't aware though that one had to have a certain numbe rof posts to ones name bfore they were entitled to engage in proper discussions here!
I'm sure your input into any discussion will be very welcome - but I'm afraid it was hard not to be offended by what appeared to be somebody joining up simply to accuse them of engaging in underhanded behaviour. But, as you have clarified in your subsequent posts, that was not your intention. I'm sorry if you felt unwelcome as a new poster.
Personally, I don't claim to know the ins and outs of university politcs. However, I know Tom Collins from his work in the Education field and have found him to be very inspiring and creative. I also think he is an excellent leader.
Whatever happens I hope the university gets a worthy president - it's going to need one.0 -
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"Tbh, Tom Collins is probably the strongest internal candidate by a fair bit."
He is? What about current members of the senior managment team? the deputy president or the vice president for research for instance. I dunno if anyone here read the Irish Times articles the day after the announcement: they mentioned one internal person who they viewed as the strong contender and it wasn't Tom Collins!
Where did this Tom Collins fan club come from?
I do love Mark Boyle btw but he def doesn't have the necessary experience
I suggested Tom Collins (before taking a holiday break which left me minus the internet!!) - purely because he is the only senior academic (that I am aware of) in NUIM that has prior experience of running a 3rd Level Institute successfully.
On the whole question of tenure - personally I think 10 years is too long.
Given the length of time it takes to produce a senior academic worthy of the post - why would you then box him/her (any suggestions on a female President)? into a role with a timescale of 10 years on it? I'd argue that a President who has worn a number of different hats is more likely to have the skills and vision to drive the University forward in these challenging times.
The President of Ireland serves for 7 years - with the option to serve for a 2nd term. Why not the President of NUIM?
P.S. What has Sarah Palin got to do with anything??0 -
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funky penguin wrote: »
I should have put some money on in Paddy Powers!! Fair play to him...hope he is given the opportunity to make a difference 0 -
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