Driving alone on a learners permit.

RubyXI · 04-07-2010 03:48PM

I've just started driving lessons and my instructor said I need to have my own car to go into when i'm finished lessons. That i need to go away and practice for 6 months and then do my test. How can i practice if i can't drive on my own on a learners permit? I don't really have a parent or anyone to take me around all the time. Do i take my chances? I just don't see a way around it? Any opinions would be great!

**Timbuk2** · 04-07-2010 07:52PM

phi3 wrote: »

I've just started driving lessons and my instructor said I need to have my own car to go into when i'm finished lessons. That i need to go away and practice for 6 months and then do my test. How can i practice if i can't drive on my own on a learners permit? I don't really have a parent or anyone to take me around all the time. Do i take my chances? I just don't see a way around it? Any opinions would be great!

Try one of your friends with full licences, etc. Anyone who has held a full licence for more than 2 years can be your accompanied driver.

RubyXI · 04-07-2010 08:32PM

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Try one of your friends with full licences, etc. Anyone who has held a full licence for more than 2 years can be your accompanied driver.

I know but i can't think of anyone with a licence more than 2 years. That's my problem

spurious · 04-07-2010 09:28PM

My problem is that I'm not a teenager, so no longer living at home, most of my friends can't take the (realistically) two hours out of their family and work lives to sit and let me drive them around for an hour, so I get little practice.

I was paying an instructor to come with me, but even she said that was mad as all she was was a very expensive passenger. I cancelled my last test date as I knew there was no way I'd practiced enough. I was doing well to get an hour a week. I'm a bit better now, but because I won't drive unaccompanied I am at a bit of a disadvantage.

I'm going to give the test a go on the new date, but I won't be driving unaccompanied before it.

**Timbuk2** · 04-07-2010 09:33PM

phi3 wrote: »

I know but i can't think of anyone with a licence more than 2 years. That's my problem

Normally people in your situation would just invest in lessons (you don't need to buy or insure a car for lessons) and concentrate on passing the test. Once you pass, you can then buy a car, insure it and legally practice without an accompanied driver.

I really don't think it is worth the risk to drive on your own on a LP - they are starting to clamp down on it now and the fines are quite severe.

RubyXI · 05-07-2010 08:03AM

spurious wrote: »

My problem is that I'm not a teenager, so no longer living at home, most of my friends can't take the (realistically) two hours out of their family and work lives to sit and let me drive them around for an hour, so I get little practice.

I was paying an instructor to come with me, but even she said that was mad as all she was was a very expensive passenger. I cancelled my last test date as I knew there was no way I'd practiced enough. I was doing well to get an hour a week. I'm a bit better now, but because I won't drive unaccompanied I am at a bit of a disadvantage.

I'm going to give the test a go on the new date, but I won't be driving unaccompanied before it.

Ya I'm pretty much the same except i've only just started. Suppose It will just have to be trying to learn to drive on a lesson a week, which will never realistically happen. My driving instructer said i'll only need 8-10 lessons and then i need to get a car. Maybe i should just give it up now.

DrivingMad · 05-07-2010 12:56PM

phi3 wrote: »

Ya I'm pretty much the same except i've only just started. Suppose It will just have to be trying to learn to drive on a lesson a week, which will never realistically happen. My driving instructer said i'll only need 8-10 lessons and then i need to get a car. Maybe i should just give it up now.

I know a guy that had no car of his own, only had lessons from an instructor once a week, and had no other means of practice in between. He started lessons in November and passed his test in March. (he had his LP for a couple of months before starting).
It is very, very possible. Don't give up!

RubyXI · 05-07-2010 01:52PM

DrivingMad wrote: »

I know a guy that had no car of his own, only had lessons from an instructor once a week, and had no other means of practice in between. He started lessons in November and passed his test in March. (he had his LP for a couple of months before starting).
It is very, very possible. Don't give up!

Thanks. I just have to do my best. My instructor is going to give me a hard time about not getting a car but i guess i'll have to explain that it's not really possible without breaking the law!

Max Power1 · 05-07-2010 01:55PM

(Disclaimer - I am not advising anyone to break the law)

What I dont get is how people are so reluctant to drive unacompanied. I know a friend who has been driving unnacompanied for the last 7 months, gone through numerous checkpoints etc and only ever once warned for driving alone on an LP.

We all hear of the "clampdown" every year but I do not know one single person that was done for driving unnacompanied. indeed there isnt, iirc, a single poster on boards that was done.

spurious · 05-07-2010 02:27PM

I could shoplift too if I wanted, probably.

**Timbuk2** · 05-07-2010 02:30PM

It isn't a case of 'we don't do it because of the law' - there is an actual reason. If you have yet to pass your test, then you have not proven that you are actually good enough to drive on your own. An LP holder driving unaccompanied isn't safe, or fair, to other full-licence drivers on the road. Those wishing to drive unaccompanied think they are competent, thus the only logical option is to book a cancellation test, and within three weeks they should have their full licence.

Cian92 · 05-07-2010 06:55PM

Tbh, I don't have any problem with someone driving on their own with a LP. I'm doing my test in 4 weeks, I've driven a few times on my own, passed 2 garda check points, not ever a problem just waived on. Don't drive unaccompanied if you don't want to, but it really is the only way to get practice in, or get around ( the only reason i drove on my own was to get to school, for the last 2 weeks when LC might only be coming in for an hour or two) ! A driving instructor is an expensive passenger. I wouldn't reccomend it though untill you feel competent enough to drive and park. What harm will it do?

SantryRed · 05-07-2010 11:32PM

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

It isn't a case of 'we don't do it because of the law' - there is an actual reason. If you have yet to pass your test, then you have not proven that you are actually good enough to drive on your own. An LP holder driving unaccompanied isn't safe, or fair, to other full-licence drivers on the road. Those wishing to drive unaccompanied think they are competent, thus the only logical option is to book a cancellation test, and within three weeks they should have their full licence.

That's rubbish tbh. What about the loads of people who were just given licences when there was too much of a backlog? A lot of full licenced drivers are a lot worse than me at driving.

**Timbuk2** · 05-07-2010 11:38PM

SantryRed wrote: »

That's rubbish tbh. What about the loads of people who were just given licences when there was too much of a backlog? A lot of full licenced drivers are a lot worse than me at driving.

It's not their fault for driving on their own if they had a full licence. They would have built up ample experience in the meantime. LP holders are generally only driving for a few years, at most. As they haven't passed their test, how can they say that they are good enough to drive on their own? They have nothing to prove that they are capable or competent, asides from their own opinion.

You never, ever stop learning to drive. When you start out, on a LP, you have to be accompanied so as to gain experience and advice on coping with various situations. Passing your test doesn't mean that you are now a fully experienced driver - it merely means that because you proved that you can drive with competency, you can now learn to drive without an accompanied driver. Of course people's opinions vary, but that's how I see it.

Max Power1 · 06-07-2010 07:59AM

spurious wrote: »

I could shoplift too if I wanted, probably.

Will a guard have a checkpoint outside the shop, see you walking out carrying the stolen items, a red and white label front and back "S" for shoplifter, and wave you on?

Jenna69 · 06-07-2010 08:14AM

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

It isn't a case of 'we don't do it because of the law' - there is an actual reason. If you have yet to pass your test, then you have not proven that you are actually good enough to drive on your own. An LP holder driving unaccompanied isn't safe, or fair, to other full-licence drivers on the road. Those wishing to drive unaccompanied think they are competent, thus the only logical option is to book a cancellation test, and within three weeks they should have their full licence.

I think that's a bit unfair, i know i take more care on the roads and that doesn't mean driving slowly and irritating everybody. You see fully licenced holder drivers taking chances, risking their and other peoples lives every day. Seriously how are we meant to learn if 1) we don't have money to burn on lessons every day for 6 months or 2) we don't know anyone that has a full licence. I admit i've driven unaccompanied a few times and i don't think i'm not safe or unfair to other drivers. I think full licence holders just don't want LP drivers on the road at all.:p:p We all have to start somewhere.

**Timbuk2** · 06-07-2010 10:21AM

Jenna69 wrote: »

I think that's a bit unfair, i know i take more care on the roads and that doesn't mean driving slowly and irritating everybody. You see fully licenced holder drivers taking chances, risking their and other peoples lives every day. Seriously how are we meant to learn if 1) we don't have money to burn on lessons every day for 6 months or 2) we don't know anyone that has a full licence. I admit i've driven unaccompanied a few times and i don't think i'm not safe or unfair to other drivers. I think full licence holders just don't want LP drivers on the road at all.:p:p We all have to start somewhere.

I see your point completely - I had my LP for 10 months and I found it extremely irritating that I was reliant on people with full licences to drive. Often they were too busy, or at work, or just didn't have time to take me out. I was normally reliant on my parents, who both work. What's worse is that I didn't have a car - I was only insured on my mother's car. She often works 8am-8pm shifts so the car would be gone all day!

Was I tempted slightly to drive on my own for practice? Yes. I justified my temptations in saying that when I had an accompanied driver with me, they didn't really need to give me advice anymore. But I never drove unaccompanied. Despite it being illegal, how was I supposed to know that I was good enough? It was only my opinion, which was biased obviously.

I'm not saying this directly to you, but to everybody. If you think you are good enough to drive on the roads, unaccompanied, amongst full licence drivers, then just book a cancellation test, because you are surely good enough to drive for 25 minutes through housing estates and make less than 8 serious mistakes? Possibly as soon as 3 weeks later, you will be able to drive unaccompanied, legally.

And I have a second cousin that got caught driving to secondary school unaccompanied on a LP and he did get fined. (I can't remember how much, but it wasn't as much as €2000 [unaccompanied + no L plates] but he still got fined a significant amount - so it does happen).

Max Power1 · 06-07-2010 10:45AM

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I see your point completely - I had my LP for 10 months and I found it extremely irritating that I was reliant on people with full licences to drive. Often they were too busy, or at work, or just didn't have time to take me out. I was normally reliant on my parents, who both work. What's worse is that I didn't have a car - I was only insured on my mother's car. She often works 8am-8pm shifts so the car would be gone all day!

Was I tempted slightly to drive on my own for practice? Yes. I justified my temptations in saying that when I had an accompanied driver with me, they didn't really need to give me advice anymore. But I never drove unaccompanied. Despite it being illegal, how was I supposed to know that I was good enough? It was only my opinion, which was biased obviously.

I'm not saying this directly to you, but to everybody. If you think you are good enough to drive on the roads, unaccompanied, amongst full licence drivers, then just book a cancellation test, because you are surely good enough to drive for 25 minutes through housing estates and make less than 8 serious mistakes? Possibly as soon as 3 weeks later, you will be able to drive unaccompanied, legally.

And I have a second cousin that got caught driving to secondary school unaccompanied on a LP and he did get fined. (I can't remember how much, but it wasn't as much as €2000 [unaccompanied + no L plates] but he still got fined a significant amount - so it does happen).

Interesting. thats the first person (in real life or boards) that I have actually heard that knows of someone who got fined!

**Timbuk2** · 06-07-2010 11:02AM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Interesting. thats the first person (in real life or boards) that I have actually heard that knows of someone who got fined!

Yes I don't think I've heard of anyone else really. But I'd imagine they are starting to clamp down more and more. I wouldn't risk it on a LP - €1000 could buy you a good second hand car, or even insurance!

Max Power1 · 06-07-2010 11:05AM

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Yes I don't think I've heard of anyone else really. But I'd imagine they are starting to clamp down more and more. I wouldn't risk it on a LP - €1000 could buy you a good second hand car, or even insurance!

I have both

seriously - I dont think they bother still. Ive been through checkpoints and the worst ive ever got is "now you know you shouldnt be driving alone". I had no tax on the car either and they still let me drive off without fine/points:rolleyes:

ANXIOUS · 06-07-2010 11:06AM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Interesting. thats the first person (in real life or boards) that I have actually heard that knows of someone who got fined!

Yeah I was wondering, why it wasn't mentioned at the start of the thread.

I hate how people get on their high horse about this. I don't know what a full licence driver can actually do for you. They could probally tell you that you are in the wrong gear or lane. But if you need to be told that you shouldn't be driving on a main road anyway.

I believe that the more confidence you have the better driver that you are. Some of the questions people that have full licences ask here are unbelievable.

TouchingVirus · 06-07-2010 11:11AM

I had an accident with a cyclist while driving on my own with an LP back in 2007. I'd been driving for 8 months. Even now, with many more years driving experience and having gained my full license in May of the same year, I would hit that cyclist. I did nothing wrong, the cyclist was at fault. The insurance company paid out, pedestrians and all that.

The Garda I was dealing with said there would be no need for any criminal prosecution for driving unaccompanied and without my L-plates but that I really should put them on. She told me she has a brother who's waiting for his test (as I was) and that she realised how impractical it was for me to get a fully-licensed driver to sit in the car as I drove to work because I didn't live at home.

Because the law is faulted, people will break it. Even if you enforce the broken law, people will still flout it. A broken law/system needs to be fixed. The issue of Learner drivers on our roads is one such system. A Garda having sympathy and using their discretion to not prosecute is another indicator that something's fairly wrong. It really is only the hardass who'll do you for driving on an LP unaccompanied, I've never heard of anybody I know being done.

**Timbuk2** · 06-07-2010 11:13AM

ANXIOUS wrote: »

I believe that the more confidence you have the better driver that you are. Some of the questions people that have full licences ask here are unbelievable.

*Deletes all of the threads that I started on this forum*

While I do agree that some LP Holders can be safer drivers than Full Licence drivers, they really can't know that until they pass their test.

For those who believe they are competent enough to drive unaccompanied, ask yourselves why you haven't passed your test yet? What's even worse is people who drive unaccompanied after failing a driving test.

(My intention isn't to start an argument or irritate people - I do accept the views of those who believe it is ok to drive unaccompanied but I think that their viewpoint is based on a biased opinion of their own skill).

Max Power1 · 06-07-2010 11:14AM

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I
The Garda I was dealing with said there would be no need for any criminal prosecution for driving unaccompanied and without my L-plates but that I really should put them on. She told me she has a brother who's waiting for his test (as I was) and that she realised how impractical it was for me to get a fully-licensed driver to sit in the car as I drove to work because I didn't live at home.

Because the law is faulted, people will break it. Even if you enforce the broken law, people will still flout it. A broken law/system needs to be fixed. The issue of Learner drivers on our roads is one such system. A Garda having sympathy and using their discretion to not prosecute is another indicator that something's fairly wrong. It really is only the hardass who'll do you for driving on an LP unaccompanied, I've never heard of anybody I know being done.

Its this that gives people the idea to drive alone, even though its against the law. I remember before I went through the first checkpoint, I was shaking I was that nervous. When you realise that the gardai have decided for the most part not to enforce the law, it seems that bit easier for people to take the risk.

If i knew in the morning that there would be an actual clampdown with zero tolerance for any l drivers, would I still drive unnacompanied? Would I hell!

Robxxx7 · 06-07-2010 12:57PM

Cian92 wrote: »

Tbh, I don't have any problem with someone driving on their own with a LP. I'm doing my test in 4 weeks, I've driven a few times on my own, passed 2 garda check points, not ever a problem just waived on. Don't drive unaccompanied if you don't want to, but it really is the only way to get practice in, or get around ( the only reason i drove on my own was to get to school, for the last 2 weeks when LC might only be coming in for an hour or two) ! A driving instructor is an expensive passenger. I wouldn't reccomend it though untill you feel competent enough to drive and park. What harm will it do?

Well that expensive passenger will help you get through your test by removing the faults you pick up by driving on your own.
The reason you are not allowed to drive around on your own is that you are not currently deemed competent by law not by your own judgement

DrivingMad · 06-07-2010 02:34PM

Jenna69 wrote: »

Seriously how are we meant to learn if 1) we don't have money to burn on lessons every day for 6 months or 2) we don't know anyone that has a full licence. I admit i've driven unaccompanied a few times and i don't think i'm not safe or unfair to other drivers. I think full licence holders just don't want LP drivers on the road at all.:p:p We all have to start somewhere.

Why are lessons necessary every day of the six months? I would have thought that a bit excessive. Surely one a week or so would suffice?

Again, you dont think that you are unsafe/unfair to other drivers. Only by passing a test can that be proved. By not having a licenced driver with you, there is not even any feedback from them to help.

Why, in the grand scheme of things is six months so long to wait? it is a relatively short span of time when you think about it! If you did a college course that was lasting for two years, would you after the first couple of lectures say that you then knew enough to leave and get a job in that profession?

Just think, in the UK the police have the power to confiscate and destroy any vehicle if the driver has no tax/insurance/full licence! This seems to be enforced too. That being said, that is not the law here (yet?!) so why not just do the six months, pass the test, then enjoy your driving?!

Max Power1 · 06-07-2010 03:33PM

DrivingMad wrote: »

Why are lessons necessary every day of the six months? I would have thought that a bit excessive. Surely one a week or so would suffice?

Again, you dont think that you are unsafe/unfair to other drivers. Only by passing a test can that be proved. By not having a licenced driver with you, there is not even any feedback from them to help.

Why, in the grand scheme of things is six months so long to wait? it is a relatively short span of time when you think about it! If you did a college course that was lasting for two years, would you after the first couple of lectures say that you then knew enough to leave and get a job in that profession?

Just think, in the UK the police have the power to confiscate and destroy any vehicle if the driver has no tax/insurance/full licence! This seems to be enforced too. That being said, that is not the law here (yet?!) so why not just do the six months, pass the test, then enjoy your driving?!

Can you see the ground up there?
High%20Horse.jpg

Alanstrainor · 06-07-2010 06:51PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Can you see the ground up there?

Let's not start that high horse crap here. There were some valid points raised in DrivingMad's post.

Cian92 · 06-07-2010 07:19PM

Robxxx7 wrote: »

Well that expensive passenger will help you get through your test by removing the faults you pick up by driving on your own.
The reason you are not allowed to drive around on your own is that you are not currently deemed competent by law not by your own judgement

Of course you need an instructor, to teach you and give you tips. However one need to practice, and to practice they need somebody sitting next to them by law, at the beginning it's necessary. After this though, they really aren't needed.

Now I'm lucky in that both my parents can sit along side me. I don't see the logic in it. I drive better unaccompanied, with my parents next to me I generally end up speeding and being told to do X, Y and Z (but not to do it in the test of course). Now when driving alone I do everything by the book, as I am more cautious.

One great thing about having my parents with me is that they tell me where to watch out for speed traps, and scour ahead to see if Gardai are present, so I slow down. That is one advantage of being accompanied.

DrivingMad · 06-07-2010 08:13PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Can you see the ground up there?

Sorry if my opinion doesnt tie in with yours...... thought I was allowed to express my self like others with out having the p*** taken out of me. I shall have to check my posts with you first to see if its ok to submit?? Was there any valid point to your reply apart from your sarcasm?

Driving alone on a learners permit.

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