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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

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Comments

  • #362
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Is this an supposed to be an argument for or against a United Ireland ?

    Its a question how loyal one can be to a 'cause'. Does the destruction of wealth shake that loyalty?


  • #363
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    When one takes cover in a civilian area while playing soldiers the outcome is usually pretty bad for all parties



    Is this an supposed to be an argument for or against a United Ireland ?

    Of course Mike, however the British chose one course of action which was shelling what was essentially a symbolic act of rebellion. Not unexpected of course by the Rebels themselves who I'm sure understood that full well, however to somehow try to equate this action to 911 is bordering on the fanciful.


  • #364
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    gurramok wrote: »
    Nothing, you sure? Would you will be willing to pay high taxes to maintain the Union?



    Damn Allies invading French towns and causing all that destruction and civilian deaths to free the French.

    Damn British invading Iraq and 'freeing' Basra, a few civilian deaths didn't matter. :rolleyes:

    What if i just moved to england? Then that won't affect me anyway and there would still be the union.I will be doing anyway in the foreseeable future.


  • #365
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    The ones that fire rockets into Israel should, indeed, be so admonished.
    No doubt they feel that their diplomatic avenues will lead nowhere. Another thread methinks.


  • #366
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    What if i just moved to england? Which i will be doing anyway in the foreseeable future.

    I'll tell you what, the English in general are grand folk, have the pleasure of being friendly with and working with many, but in their eyes you will be Irish so I'm not sure how well that will go down with yourself in fairness.


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  • #367
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    owenc wrote: »
    What if i just moved to england? Then that won't affect me anyway and there would still be the union.I will be doing anyway in the foreseeable future.

    I'm asking for your opinion on how your community would react in such a scenario. (of course you say you will emigrate)


  • #368
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    I'll tell you what, the English in general are grand folk, have the pleasure of being friendly with and working with many, but in their eyes you will be Irish so I'm not sure how well that will go down with yourself in fairness.


    Too bad and i'll just correct them and its not like they are going to be talking about nationalities all the time.


  • #369
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    [PHP][/PHP]
    gurramok wrote: »
    I'm asking for your opinion on how your community would react in such a scenario. (of course you say you will emigrate)

    Well theres your answer then.


  • #370
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    gurramok wrote: »
    I'm asking for your opinion on how your community would react in such a scenario. (of course you say you will emigrate)
    We have already been through what would happen if Westminster asked the north to do something he disagreed with.... didn't get an answer.


  • #371
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    [PHP][/PHP]

    Well theres your answer then.
    So you would abandon your home because of an all Ireland government?


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  • #372
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    Too bad and i'll just correct them and its not like they are going to be talking about nationalities all the time.

    Good luck with that, try not to get offended when they roll their eyes at you.


  • #373
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    owenc wrote: »
    [PHP][/PHP]

    Well theres your answer then.
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    We have already been through what would happen if Westminster asked the north to do something he disagreed with.... didn't get an answer.

    Its amazing how having to actually pay for your 'country' can shake loyalty!!


  • #374
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    Good luck with that, try not to get offended when they roll their eyes at you.

    Naw they won't i've corrected many people and when you tell them your from Northern Ireland they know its in the uk not ireland you see.;)


  • #375
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So you would abandon your home because of an all Ireland government?

    Jaysus! I'd abandon mine if that happened. I like a quiet life. Most of all, I want it to continue for a few years more.


  • #376
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So you would abandon your home because of an all Ireland government?

    I'll be living in england by then anyway and yes i would move if that happened.


  • #377
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I'll be living in england by then anyway and yes i would move if that happened.
    And what about others who cant leave?

    Listening to you you would think that everyone down south are animals.


  • #378
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    And what about others who cant leave?

    Listening to you you would think that everyone down south are animals.

    Sorry but i want the british government ruling me not the irish one why can't you except that.:rolleyes:


  • #379
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    gurramok wrote: »
    I just wonder if NI was made to pay for itself through severe cutbacks and punitive taxes imposed from the British govt, would the Unionists still embrace the Union?
    (analogy is the Americans of British descent who rose against the British govt in the late 1700's where severe taxation was the spark that lit the fuse!)
    I think there is a simple way to answer any of these “what would it take to persuade unionists to take a green tinted view of the world?” And that is to ask the question “what would it take to persuade dyed in the wool nationalists to embrace British notions such as rejoining the commonwealth or the like”? There are of course two chances of that happening (other than perhaps in a trade off for a united Ireland) and slim has left town! If you are unswervingly, not for turning, why would you expect the other side to, even if it might well be in their best interests?

    It is worth recalling that for long periods of our history it was evident that Britain was more successful than us in economic terms, as was evident by the flow of Irish emigrants to Britain, in the 1950s and 1980s in particular (BTW I think it is quite a good, if elemental metric for assessing how well a country is functioning, to simply observe if people are trying to get in or out!). I don’t recall any sense that these folk started to reconsider if Irish independence was such a good idea after all. No, they sat in the pubs in the land where the made their living, and sang rebel songs about freeing the ‘aul sod!


  • #380
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    Sorry but i want the british government ruling me not the irish one why can't you except that.:rolleyes:

    Nationalists have a big say in how your society is run as it is. Maybe it's time to start packing.


  • #381
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Sorry but i want the british government ruling me not the irish one why can't you except that.:rolleyes:
    Nationalists want an Irish government of this islands inhabitants, but they have not abandoned their homes. I doubt that there will be a mass exodus if a UI comes about.


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  • #382
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    to somehow try to equate this action to 911 is bordering on the fanciful.

    Which one are we talking about now the attempt to wrest military control of Dublin from the British army or the symbolic act of rebellion ?
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    And what about others who cant leave?

    Are you planning on building a wall ?
    gurramok wrote: »
    Its a question how loyal one can be to a 'cause'. Does the destruction of wealth shake that loyalty?

    Are economic considerations not at least as valid a reason for adopting a position on an issue as any other


  • #383
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    Nationalists have a big say in how your society is run as it is. Maybe it's time to start packing.

    Not were i live, i'm in a unionist constuency.


  • #384
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Nationalists want an Irish government of this islands inhabitants, but they have not abandoned their homes. I doubt that there will be a mass exodus if a UI comes about.

    Yes but unionists are more stricter in there beleives etc i.e they have the OO nationalist have nothing like that (well besides ira)


  • #385
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Not were i live, i'm in a unionist constuency.
    Thats right, your elected representative has a total say in what happens in your area.


  • #386
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes but unionists are more stricter in there beleives etc i.e they have the OO nationalist have nothing like that (well besides ira)
    All I can do is shake my head in disbelief at that.


  • #387
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    lugha wrote: »
    I think there is a simple way to answer any of these “what would it take to persuade unionists to take a green tinted view of the world?” And that is to ask the question “what would it take to persuade dyed in the wool nationalists to embrace British notions such as rejoining the commonwealth or the like”? There are of course two chances of that happening (other than perhaps in a trade off for a united Ireland) and slim has left town! If you are unswervingly, not for turning, why would you expect the other side to, even if it might well be in their best interests?

    Its a genuine question Lugha without even entertaining the idea of a UI. We know that NI is a heavily subsidised economy. If that subsidy was taken away so as to make the people that live there pay for the services they receive( like balance the books), will they be willing to cough up the dough as a test of their loyalty?

    I wonder if Owens view is a one-off or a general one.(emigration to escape punitive taxes)


  • #388
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Nationalists want an Irish government of this islands inhabitants, but they have not abandoned their homes. I doubt that there will be a mass exodus if a UI comes about.

    In a generation or two attitudes will of course soften, look how far it has changed since the 70's.

    We (in the North) also have to consider that Britain herself may not want to hold on to NI at some point in the future given the billions they have to pump in yearly.

    Ireland likewise may not want much to do with us at that point also. Maybe the possibility of an independent state.


  • #389
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    All I can do is shake my head in disbelief at that.

    They are more stricter is what i'm trying to say, now this is not me i'm not involved in any of that crap, i'd just hate irish rule.


  • #390
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Historically Unionists have claimed loyalty to the crown and Westminster but only when it suits them. Sunningdale is a perfect example of that.


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  • #391
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Which one are we talking about now the attempt to wrest military control of Dublin from the British army or the symbolic act of rebellion ?

    If your attributing that statement to me, you should be aware that i never said that.


This discussion has been closed.
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