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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

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Comments

  • #242
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    We're not exactly the soul of impartiality when it comes to history in the South.
    Exactly, I am just trying not to have this sidetracked into a debate with Owen about the value of his teaching. For instance he maintained that the 1916 leaders were hung and not shot for ages as that is what his teacher told him. We have been down that road.

    However I would maintain that the teaching of Irish history at secondary level(the books anyway) are relatively impartial. One example is the books about the North which interchanged between Derry and Londonderry in reference to the city and included primary sources such as interviews with protagonists on both sides.


  • #243
    Japer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    Bebs wrote: »
    We're not exactly the soul of impartiality when it comes to history in the South.

    Too true. I remember well the pride of place posters of the 1916 " heroes" had on the walls of the corridors, and in the classroom it was drummed in to many of us about the famine, to hate the auld enemy, about the great men of the easter rising, etc. The reality was that far more Irish men volunteered to serve in the British army in WW1 than ever took part in the Easter Rising. In fact when they surrendered many of the people who took part in the easter rising found themselves spat at and jeered etc by the people of Dublin.


  • #244
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    If you are right, which I highly doubt, I would have, if anything, overestimated them.


    When it comes down to it the 26 counties will have to vote too. The constitution will have to be changed, or even better, a new one drawn up.

    Go and ask a unionist what they would do then?:rolleyes: Well, if yous get the choice on whether Northern Ireland stays i will be truly angry, it is the choice of the people of Northern Ireland and not a foreign country.


  • #245
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    T runner wrote: »
    Sorry Owen but Irish history is generally not taught in NI schools. Looks like you are the one who is being taught "made up crap".

    I goto a majorityly protestant school and we are taught irish history we even learn't it in primary school, so theres one for you.


  • #246
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    We're not exactly the soul of impartiality when it comes to history in the South.

    You tell them! They think they know what its like (especially mis thingy telling me that unionists won't leave:rolleyes:) and they have no clue, life is different to reported on news channels and papers. Where abouts are you from?


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  • #247
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Japer wrote: »
    Too true. I remember well the pride of place posters of the 1916 " heroes" had on the walls of the corridors, and in the classroom it was drummed in to many of us about the famine, to hate the auld enemy, about the great men of the easter rising, etc. The reality was that far more Irish men volunteered to serve in the British army in WW1 than ever took part in the Easter Rising. In fact when they surrendered many of the people who took part in the easter rising found themselves spat at and jeered etc by the people of Dublin.

    How are they heroes they shot and killed innocent people. Thats what my history teacher said!!


  • #248
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Go and ask a unionist what they would do then?:rolleyes: Well, if yous get the choice on whether Northern Ireland stays i will be truly angry, it is the choice of the people of Northern Ireland and not a foreign country.
    The souths constitution will have to be changed, so a vote on whether to accept the 6 counties will be needed, and a all Ireland vote (hopefully) on a new constitution.


  • #249
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    How are they heroes they shot and killed innocent people. Thats what my history teacher said!!
    They are my heroes. And to look at it that way is a very blinkered view.


  • #250
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Exactly, I am just trying not to have this sidetracked into a debate with Owen about the value of his teaching. For instance he maintained that the 1916 leaders were hung and not shot for ages as that is what his teacher told him. We have been down that road.

    However I would maintain that the teaching of Irish history at secondary level(the books anyway) are relatively impartial. One example is the books about the North which interchanged between Derry and Londonderry in reference to the city and included primary sources such as interviews with protagonists on both sides.

    I know more about history than what that bloody teacher told me, i don't beleive everything she tells me!!:mad: She thinks theres no catholic unionists and i don't beleive in that. What are you saying about derry (londonderry) now, are you saying that they are wrong because they have londonderry written in them and interchange between nationalist and unionist views.:rolleyes:


  • #251
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    We're not exactly the soul of impartiality when it comes to history in the South.
    owenc wrote: »
    How are they heroes they shot and killed innocent people. Thats what my history teacher said!!

    You see what I meant?


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  • #252
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You see what I meant?

    I was talking in reference to what the Boys paragraph had in it at the end, stop talking to me like a peace of crap, and going on like i know nothing about history.:mad:


  • #253
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The souths constitution will have to be changed, so a vote on whether to accept the 6 counties will be needed, and a all Ireland vote (hopefully) on a new constitution.

    Thats not fair as then the unionists will never get a chance. In that sence they better bring in another Ulster Covenant and i WILL be signing it.:mad: If you do that there will be riots and i will be happy about it, (i usually don't side with them but since that would be unfair...).


  • #254
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    They are my heroes. And to look at it that way is a very blinkered view.

    Whatever expect my view on things and get on with it.


  • #255
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I was talking in reference to what the Boys paragraph had in it at the end, stop talking to me like a peace of crap, and going on like i know nothing about history.:mad:
    Ok Owen, but speaking from past experience you seem to hanker back to what your teacher has said and use that to refute peoples posts, or use "my teacher said this" as a source, and refuse to accept correction.


  • #256
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Thats not fair as then the unionists will never get a chance. In that sence they better bring in another Ulster Covenant and i WILL be signing it.:mad: If you do that there will be riots and i will be happy about it, (i usually don't side with them but since that would be unfair...).
    No, you don't seem to follow. The north will vote amongst themselves, then the south will vote to accept the north, then we will have an all Ireland vote on a new constitution.


  • #257
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    No, you don't seem to follow. The north will vote amongst themselves, then the south will vote to accept the north, then we will have an all Ireland vote on a new constitution.

    Oh thank god i thought you said yous had a choice, i nearly died with anger!:mad:


  • #258
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Oh thank god i thought you said yous had a choice, i nearly died with anger!:mad:
    See, its not nice having decisions made by different states is it.....


  • #259
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    See, its not nice having decisions made by different states is it.....

    Why what are you talking about?


  • #260
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Why what are you talking about?
    You seem angry at the thought that the south could decide your future.... similar to the way many were angry that Britain could, and can, decide theirs.


  • #261
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You seem angry at the thought that the south could decide your future.... similar to the way many were angry that Britain could, and can, decide theirs.

    Well thats not my fault it was done by a majority and those people are living in the uk anyway.


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  • #262
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Well thats not my fault it was done by a majority and those people are living in the uk anyway.
    Indeed, in the UK, seen by many as a foreign country.... should that foreign country decide the fate of another?

    Owen, as a British citizen will you obey what Westminster says, or will you follow the route of many Unionists and only follow when it suits, and when it doesn't "viciously defy" Britain's orders?


  • #263
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Indeed, in the UK, seen by many as a foreign country.... should that foreign country decide the fate of another?

    Owen, as a British citizen will you obey what Westminster says, or will you follow the route of many Unionists and only follow when it suits, and when it doesn't "viciously defy" Britain's orders?

    I will follow the ulster unionist party and conservatives...


  • #264
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I will follow the ulster unionist party and conservatives...
    Hypothetically speaking, if the entire UK were to vote about the North and it was decided to give the six counties back, would you follow the will of the majority?


  • #265
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Indeed, in the UK, seen by many as a foreign country.... should that foreign country decide the fate of another?

    Owen, as a British citizen will you obey what Westminster says, or will you follow the route of many Unionists and only follow when it suits, and when it doesn't "viciously defy" Britain's orders?

    The Republic is just as foreign a country when it comes to Northern Ireland.


  • #266
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    The Republic is just as foreign a country when it comes to Northern Ireland.
    The South wont decide the fate of the north, I was merely stating that we shall have a need to vote on it, for constitutional reasons.


  • #267
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    Well that is the Republic having a say in the future of Northern Ireland just as it would be Northern Ireland having a say in the future of the Republic.


  • #268
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    Well that is the Republic having a say in the future of Northern Ireland just as it would be Northern Ireland having a say in the future of the Republic.
    Wait, I dont think you follow me here, if the North were to vote to unite with the 26, the south would need to vote to accept that.


  • #269
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    No, you don't seem to follow. The north will vote amongst themselves, then the south will vote to accept the north, then we will have an all Ireland vote on a new constitution.

    What makes you think we will have a new constitution?


  • #270
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    What makes you think we will have a new constitution?
    At the very least there will need to be an amendment. It is the aim of most republican parties for a new constitution, as I have outlined earlier, one based on the foundations of the 1916 proclamation. I think the country needs a new constitution. Do you?


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  • #271
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    The Republic is just as foreign a country when it comes to Northern Ireland.

    It is a foreign country.


This discussion has been closed.
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