Point out the flaws AH

phantom_lord · 05-07-2010 05:45AM #1

This is something I’ve thought about for a long time and any time I mention it to anyone usually gets favourable responses. I’m just wondering what sorts of flaws will AH be able to find in the idea.

Basically, I think drugs (all of them, yes even heroin) should be legalised and distributed from government licensed premises. Pharmacies would fit the bill nicely (this would also make up for the revenue lost providing generic drugs). Anyone that wants to purchase said goods would need to be registered, and there would be a limit (albeit quite lax) on the amount any one person could purchase within a specific time frame. There could also be an attempt to create a means of traceability to prevent them being passed to underage people and others.

The drugs from these premises would be of a guaranteed standard and level of potency, ensuring a supply of unadulterated drugs, and a lesser chance of over doses.

Materials explaining all the effects and drawbacks would be available at the point of sale, and all drugs would come with government warnings. This would also allow a much greater possibility of users seeking rehabilitation.

In one foul swoop you would remove the source of funds of most criminal elements, as the products available would be of a higher standard and lower price than those available on the street (it will be easy to do this, and still provide the government with a healthy revenue source)

The budget for the Gardaí is over 1.5bn, with a reduced need to tackle drugs and criminal gangs this would be reduced immensely.
Government revenue was over 1.1bn in 2008 from tobacco products and something similar again from alcohol. This is the potential for huge savings and a very lucrative revenue source for the exchequer.

We could even grow and produce the materials here in Ireland, we’ve a large pharmaceutical sector already in place; this is a green revolution that can actually create jobs.

What somebody please think of the children
Won’t this cause a prevalence of drug use particular amongst children?

No. Portugal decriminalised drugs several years ago and contrary to the trend in other EU states addiction, usage, and associated pathologies are either contained or reduced. Criminalization was exacerbating the problem and that only decriminalization could enable an effective and efficient government response. "Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success"

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

Chances are that most teenagers find it easier to obtain illicit drugs than alcohol. This scheme would take the distribution of drugs out of the hands of criminals into the realms of government control. Dutch teenagers have a lower usage level of cannabis than most European teenager and significently lower than their Irish counterparts.

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/annual-report/2009

In short:

Safer drugs
Reduced criminal element
Stricter controls
More efficient use of Garda resources
Revenue for the Government
Create jobs
Will likely reduce usage and increase people that seek treatment

Flojo · 05-07-2010 05:51AM

I always thought the same, just wish the government and most of our society weren't so old fashioned! Even if they just legalised cannabis it would pull us straight out of the recession completely!

If the government take it over and start producing safer cleaner drugs with minimal side effects and it boosts our economy and makes the streets safer... what's not to like??

Lets start a petition! :pac:

karlog · 05-07-2010 06:04AM

I agree with legalising cannabis. As for heroin....atari jaguar

Improbable · 05-07-2010 06:26AM

phantom_lord wrote: »

Anyone that wants to purchase said goods would need to be registered, and there would be a limit (albeit quite lax) on the amount any one person could purchase within a specific time frame. There could also be an attempt to create a means of traceability to prevent them being passed to underage people and others.

I'm not sure what the point would be in creating the purchase limit. To apply it, you would need all the facilities that sell it to institute some sort of centralised monitoring system based around a registration card of some sort in order to stop people from simply hopping from one pharmacy to the next. Don't really know that it could be implemented countrywide from a logistics point of view.

phantom_lord wrote: »

The drugs from these premises would be of a guaranteed standard and level of potency, ensuring a supply of unadulterated drugs, and a lesser chance of over doses.

Not being a drug user myself, would a standardised potency have an affect on overdosing? Do you happen to have figures for accidental overdoses?

phantom_lord wrote: »

The budget for the Gardaí is over 1.5bn, with a reduced need to tackle drugs and criminal gangs this would be reduced immensely.
Government revenue was over 1.1bn in 2008 from tobacco products and something similar again from alcohol. This is the potential for huge savings and a very lucrative revenue source for the exchequer.

Would that really be the case with the registration and monitoring system that you proposed? The additional costs associated with regulation and monitoring a system which is so obviously open to abuse in a very harmful could be a factor.

Having said that, Given the results in Portugal, I would consider this a good idea though I would recommend on more research into the possible long term effects.

tommyhaas · 05-07-2010 07:31AM

feelingstressed wrote: »

The flaws?

The UK and we share a common border will go crazy if this is implemented.
They have classified drugs in categories, it's quite easy to follow
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1615851.stm

Overnight, Ireland will the backdoor to get drugs to the UK.
Though with our limited naval resources and large coastline, we probably already are.

There is merit in your post OP.
But if the UK react badly do we ignore them?

So we shouldnt implement policy if the UK arent happy with it? Feck them, its their problem

Zombienosh · 05-07-2010 08:27AM

This makes sense to me, even if it started small with as said above with weed.
I even noticed this when headshops were in fullswing, it took away from criminal profit which can only be a good thing?

Improbable · 05-07-2010 08:32AM

AlcoholicA wrote: »

This makes sense to me, even if it started small with as said above with weed.
I even noticed this when headshops were in fullswing, it took away from criminal profit which can only be a good thing?

If I'm not mistaken, headshops are now illegal aren't they? Looks like we're going in the wrong direction in terms of legality but I think the main point in shutting them down was to stop the sale of stuff which has unknown contents which might be very harmful.

Zombienosh · 05-07-2010 08:35AM

Yeah I'm not too sure on the products they sold and the safety, but at least it was controlled in terms of who was selling it to them? If more research was done on the products instead of just a blanket ban?

05-07-2010 08:48AM

I fully agree wit Op.. Drugs don't really kill people, the prohibition which leads to bad products and gang warfare kills people.

Weed poses no risk.
If ecstacy had mdma in them instead of mda etc they'd be safe.
Coke is the same.. If we had a guaranteed purity, we wouldn't have people talking way too much cause they're not used to it.
Lsd is non toxic and wont kill you.. People get it anyway if they want it, why bother making it illegal.
Even heroin is just an opiate just like codeine or morphine etc.

I could go on and on about the classic drugs.. They're here to stay and will always be available if you go looking. The war on drugs is just a waste of time and money..
Just don't let meth in and it's all good.

Dyr · 05-07-2010 08:53AM

We'd have drug tourists but, this plan would be like a filth magnet. Other than that, I'm all in favour. Our health services are keeping junkies alive indefinitely anyway.

Cookie_Monster · 05-07-2010 08:56AM

the flaws:

criminals will simply undercut the government.

drug use becomes far more widespread cos its not illegal and all the associated health problems increase hugely, putting even more strain on the health service.

adults buying for kids just like they do with cigs and booze.

much higher sick day rate in business cos eveyone baked all the time.

would need a much bigger police presence to deal with all the stung out people all over the place, especially in cities that plug it as a tourism thing. 100's of whacked out tourists all over the place will not end well...

Improbable · 05-07-2010 08:58AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the flaws:

criminals will simply undercut the government.

drug use becomes far more widespread cos its not illegal and all the associated health problems increase hugely, putting even more strain on the health service.

adults buying for kids just like they do with cigs and booze.

much higher sick day rate in business cos eveyone baked all the time.

would need a much bigger police presence to deal with all the stung out people all over the place, especially in cities that plug it as a tourism thing. 100's of whacked out tourists all over the place will not end well...

Have you seen the reports from Portugal?

Danbo! · 05-07-2010 09:02AM

phantom_lord wrote: »

There could also be an attempt to create a means of traceability to prevent them being passed to underage people and others.

Maybe not a deal breaking flaw, but I don't think the above is possible. If the kids want em, they'll get em, just like booze. But thats an issue for their parents anyway. As long as the retailer adheres to the age laws, then the problem is out of their hands.

Deleted User wrote: »

If we had a guaranteed purity, we wouldn't have people talking way too much cause they're not used to it.

Wouldn't guaranteed purity lead to more overdoses, at least initially? If someone is used to a line of illegal coke which probably contains 80% baking soda, and they out after coke is made legal and do a few lines of the pure stuff surely it would cause problems.

Although again, that can be put down to retardness on the users part.

Cuddlesworth · 05-07-2010 09:12AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the flaws:

criminals will simply undercut the government.

I don't think they will be able to. By keeping the laws and punishment for illegal selling the risk vs reward would be way too great considering the profit margins would be slashed to nothing. Plus everything we get in the this country for what we would consider cheap is the dregs of the actual drug world. Soap bars, Ecstasy pills, cocaine etc, all of low standards and purity.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

drug use becomes far more widespread cos its not illegal and all the associated health problems increase hugely, putting even more strain on the health service.

The biggest strain of the health service in years to come with be overweight people. Everything else will pale in comparison. Studies have also shown that decriminalization doesn't increase drug use. Anybody who wants to do drugs gets them anyway.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

adults buying for kids just like they do with cigs and booze.

Compared to kids buying from dealers. When I was a kid(14) I could get coke faster then a can of beer.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

much higher sick day rate in business cos eveyone baked all the time.

Its up to each individual. But in Holland where cannabis is used freely they don't have this problem.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

would need a much bigger police presence to deal with all the stung out people all over the place, especially in cities that plug it as a tourism thing. 100's of whacked out tourists all over the place will not end well...

Compared to the huge amount of resources spent chasing after something people clearly want.

El Weirdo · 05-07-2010 09:20AM

phantom_lord wrote: »

This is something Ive thought about for a long time and any time I mention it to anyone usually gets favourable responses. Im just wondering what sorts of flaws will AH be able to find in the idea.

Basically, I think drugs (all of them, yes even heroin) should be legalised and distributed from government licensed premises. Pharmacies would fit the bill nicely (this would also make up for the revenue lost providing generic drugs). Anyone that wants to purchase said goods would need to be registered, and there would be a limit (albeit quite lax) on the amount any one person could purchase within a specific time frame. There could also be an attempt to create a means of traceability to prevent them being passed to underage people and others.

The drugs from these premises would be of a guaranteed standard and level of potency, ensuring a supply of unadulterated drugs, and a lesser chance of over doses.

Materials explaining all the effects and drawbacks would be available at the point of sale, and all drugs would come with government warnings. This would also allow a much greater possibility of users seeking rehabilitation.

In one foul swoop you would remove the source of funds of most criminal elements, as the products available would be of a higher standard and lower price than those available on the street (it will be easy to do this, and still provide the government with a healthy revenue source)

The budget for the Gardaí is over 1.5bn, with a reduced need to tackle drugs and criminal gangs this would be reduced immensely.
Government revenue was over 1.1bn in 2008 from tobacco products and something similar again from alcohol. This is the potential for huge savings and a very lucrative revenue source for the exchequer.

We could even grow and produce the materials here in Ireland, weve a large pharmaceutical sector already in place; this is a green revolution that can actually create jobs.

What somebody please think of the children
Wont this cause a prevalence of drug use particular amongst children?

No. Portugal decriminalised drugs several years ago and contrary to the trend in other EU states addiction, usage, and associated pathologies are either contained or reduced. Criminalization was exacerbating the problem and that only decriminalization could enable an effective and efficient government response. "Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success"

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

Chances are that most teenagers find it easier to obtain illicit drugs than alcohol. This scheme would take the distribution of drugs out of the hands of criminals into the realms of government control. Dutch teenagers have a lower usage level of cannabis than most European teenager and significently lower than their Irish counterparts.

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/annual-report/2009

In short:
Safer drugs

Reduced criminal element

Stricter controls

More efficient use of Garda resources

Revenue for the Government

Create jobs

Will likely reduce usage and increase people that seek treatment

There's one anyway. I'm on a mobile at the moment so I'll try and find more later.

nice1franko · 05-07-2010 09:25AM

one fell swoop

05-07-2010 09:35AM

Stee wrote: »

Wouldn't guaranteed purity lead to more overdoses, at least initially? If someone is used to a line of illegal coke which probably contains 80% baking soda, and they out after coke is made legal and do a few lines of the pure stuff surely it would cause problems.

Although again, that can be put down to retardness on the users part.

I never said anything about what % purity it would be guaranteed to be.. I just said it would be guaranteed.
Purity and pure are different words.

ancapailldorcha · 05-07-2010 09:51AM

This is Ireland, not a well-organised European country.

Lando Griffin · 05-07-2010 11:07AM

I dont have a placard big enough.

Dyr · 05-07-2010 11:09AM

Maybe we could pass a purity law like the germans did for beer.

Sea Sharp · 05-07-2010 11:12AM

Referendum on alcohol,
then a referendum on weed 2 months later.

We use the referendum on alcohol to point out to the retarded masses that alcohol does more damamge than a lot of other drugs.

Lando Griffin · 05-07-2010 11:20AM

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

We use the referendum on alcohol to point out to the retarded masses that alcohol does more damamge than a lot of other drugs.

Hardly, What would The Guinness Hurling Championship be known as?
The Purple Haze / Super Skunk IV Hurling Championship

PeterIanStaker · 05-07-2010 11:29AM

The flaw in this is that they would probably put the HSE in charge of it:eek:

Abrasax · 05-07-2010 11:31AM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Hardly, What would The Guinness Hurling Championship be known as?
The Purple Haze / Super Skunk IV Hurling Championship

'The Clash of the Hash'?

funk-you · 05-07-2010 11:40AM

Abrasax wrote: »

'The Clash of the Hash'?

No, The crunch of the munch.

-Funk

trebor28 · 05-07-2010 11:51AM

surely the pharmacies wouldnt be in favour of selling such drugs as heroin whatever about selling weed.
if a heroin addict is limited to what they can get will they not be at the door of the pharmacy trying to get in to harass the staff and turning other customers away from this said pharmacy?
would this lead to a lot of security in the said pharmacy?
and if the addict was not getting what he thought was enough would he then return to his drug dealer? if any were left of course?

who would be in charge of allowing these people get cards to allow them to get these hardcore drugs?
GP's?
would the addicts be claiming to have lots their cards in order to get new ones?

i think it might be very hard to police at that lower end of the scale if it ever got to be legalised.

Abrasax · 05-07-2010 11:55AM

funk-you wrote: »

No, The crunch of the munch.

-Funk

'The Whack of the Smack'.

orourkeda · 05-07-2010 12:00PM

The legalisation of drugs may be a good idea in theory but impossible to predict how it would work in practice.

The legalisation of drugs will not deter career criminals from the life of crime. It will simply force them to move on to something else to make money. After all, dealers dont sell drugs as a service to the public. It's all about the money.

Nervous Wreck · 05-07-2010 12:06PM

Why do so many people need to get high to have fun/be happy? Surely that's a greater social problem.

Dyr · 05-07-2010 12:08PM

orourkeda wrote: »

The legalisation of drugs may be a good idea in theory but impossible to predict how it would work in practice.

The legalisation of drugs will not deter career criminals from the life of crime. It will simply force them to move on to something else to make money. After all, dealers dont sell drugs as a service to the public. It's all about the money.

There really is'nt a whole lot more they can move onto that offers serious returns for low risks. Unless they start trying to create a market for crack or meth etc.

starbelgrade · 05-07-2010 12:08PM

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Why do so many people need to get high to have fun/be happy?

To open the doors of perception, man.

Point out the flaws AH

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