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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

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Comments

  • #182
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    unbelievable the fcuking attitudes of some people.

    Well after what happened in the past what do you expect.


  • #183
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Well after what happened in the past what do you expect.
    Apparently thats irrelevant.


  • #184
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    owenc wrote: »
    Of course its crap when they tell you that all the settlers came to steel land when infact that is untrue, mines came to look after the undertakers not steel land.

    they came to create a strong protestant base to withstand rebellion from the native Irish!
    Id be pretty sceptical of alot of what you where thought.
    Do you think American kids are thought the full truth of what was done to native Americans?


  • #185
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    owenc wrote: »
    Well after what happened in the past what do you expect.

    enlighten me!!??


  • #186
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    they came to create a strong protestant base to withstand rebellion from the native Irish!
    Id be pretty sceptical of alot of what you where thought.
    Do you think American kids are thought the full truth of what was done to native Americans?

    You don't know you weren't alive so you have no proof to the full scale damage.


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  • #187
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    enlighten me!!??

    Between unionists and nationalists.


  • #188
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    jordan.. wrote: »
    Do you think American kids are thought the full truth of what was done to native Americans?

    Apparently If they did they would realise that they had no right to a say in determining the future of their own country and indeed should be eternally grateful to the remaining native americans for allowing them to remain and not running them back across the sea to the lands frome whence their ancestors came ?

    Have I got that right ? :rolleyes:


  • #189
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    owenc wrote: »
    You don't know you weren't alive so you have no proof to the full scale damage.

    it has been well documented wee man, and my family where around and suffered at their hands so I know enough!


  • #190
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    it has been well documented wee man, and my family where around and suffered at their hands so I know enough!

    So you've got pictures and all that, and you've spoken to them too.:rolleyes: You have no idea what we have to go through.:(


  • #191
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    So you've got pictures and all that, and you've spoken to them too.:rolleyes: You have no idea what we have to go through.:(
    There are plenty of primary sources. Considering we have primary sources from the fall of the roman republic, eg Cicero, his letters, Ceasers biography etc etc... It is not so surprising that there are records from the time you speak of.


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  • #192
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Presumably If they did they would realise that they had no right to a say in determining the future of their own country and indeed should be eternally grateful to the remaining native americans for allowing them to remain and not running them back across the sea to the lands frome whence their ancestoers came ?

    Have I got that right ? :rolleyes:

    your attitude is, because it happened long ago it is irrelevant. Why hide the truth?? Whats there to be afraid?? Oh wait, near genocide, slavery pretty big list actually!

    Im out of here ****ebags, have an awful evening ;)


  • #193
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    jordan.. wrote: »
    your attitude is, because it happened long ago it is irrelevant. Why hide the truth?? Whats there to be afraid?? Oh wait, near genocide, slavery pretty big list actually!

    Im out of here ****ebags, have an awful evening ;)
    Bit harsh haha


  • #194
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    There are plenty of primary sources. Considering we have primary sources from the fall of the roman republic, eg Cicero, his letters, Ceasers biography etc etc... It is not so surprising that there are records from the time you speak of.

    No, but he has no proof that his family had land stolen of.


  • #195
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Bit harsh haha

    not you man, you cool. Have a great evening!

    Everyone else, awful evening ;)


  • #196
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    not you man, you cool. Have a great evening!

    Everyone else, awful evening ;)

    Same to you.;)


  • #197
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    owenc wrote: »
    No, but he has no proof that his family had land stolen of.

    now your scottish, first it was english, then northern irish

    i wish i could ban you :D


  • #198
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    jordan.. wrote: »
    your attitude is, because it happened long ago it is irrelevant. Why hide the truth?? ........

    My attitude is that the question of whether Northern Ireland should be part of the United Kingdom or the Republic of Ireland is a matter to be decided in a democratic manner by its inhabitants and events from hundreds of years ago while perhaps interesting are not particularly relevent given that all the protagonists are long since dead and therefore dont (usually) have a vote.


  • #199
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    now your scottish, first it was english, then northern irish

    i wish i could ban you :D

    No southern irish planters are english, and i am indeed scottish descent.


  • #200
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    Irish people have this awful victim complex about themselves. That was then and this is now. Man (or woman) up and move on with your lives.


  • #201
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    "yes" says the britman "i got all them stupid paddys arguing about their own land, its working, all that sky tv and sun newspaper has the stupid paddys thinking like ourselves, yes were converting them to west brits and they are so dumb they dont even know it, they think its stylish and posh to act like this ha ha ha "


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  • #202
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    Irish people have this awful victim complex about themselves. That was then and this is now. Man (or woman) up and move on with your lives.

    At least someone has told them to grow up and stop this bloody nonscence before i tair my hair out! One minute they're talking about how irish is my first language the next they are talking about heritage and how bad english people are.:eek:


  • #203
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Yes, thats right, events which took place outside of living memory are irrelevant......
    I would say living memory is a very good place to draw the line. It is absolutely impossible to hope to right every wrong in history, at some point you have to acknowledge that we are we are, and the only matter to consider is to determine the best way to proceed. If you are going to reverse every national boundary change that was brought about by wrong doing then can you suggest what you think the map of Europe should look like? Would you require that America be given back to the native Indians and the “settlers” return home? Likewise with the Aborigines in Australia?
    And horror of horrors, what would you do if it archaeologists were to find that the native Irish (?) actually supplanted another people (maybe some English folk!!! :eek:) a few thousand years ago. Would you be prepared to pack your bags and desist from your occupying ways? :pac:
    Being a policeman for history might be a fun topic for a discussion, but it utterly unpragmatic.


  • #204
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    charlemont wrote: »
    "yes" says the britman "i got all them stupid paddys arguing about their own land, its working, all that sky tv and sun newspaper has the stupid paddys thinking like ourselves, yes were converting them to west brits and they are so dumb they dont even know it, they think its stylish and posh to act like this ha ha ha "


    Who are you talking to?? If its me i don't watch sky its crap and northern ireland people are North Brits.


  • #205
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    lugha wrote: »
    And horror of horrors, what would you do if it archaeologists were to find that the native Irish (?) actually supplanted another people.

    +1

    Given that the "native Irish" are actually comprised of the decendents of various invading tribes why should Scottish (?) "Planters" be the only ones expected to have a lawyer reexamine the title deeds to their land

    Given how relevent this stuff is and all...............


  • #206
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    +1

    Given that the "native Irish" are actually comprised of the decendents of various invading tribes why should Scottish "Planters" be the only ones expected to have a lawyer reexamine the title deeds to their land

    Given how relevent this stuff is and all...............

    Ulster scots are not irish they are descended form the lowlands which goes the whole way upto aberdeen which was not concurred by the irish peoples. Oh right i see your point but still.


  • #207
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    owenc wrote: »
    Ulster scots are not irish they are descended form the lowlands which goes the whole way upto aberdeen which was not concurred by the irish peoples. Oh right i see your point but still.

    That makes sense to me. As Scots Gaelic is a lot more common in Northern Scotland.

    Though amongst hardline unionists there's a commonly held belief that the ancestors of the Ulster planters came from Ulster. And the plantation was a "homecoming"

    What part of Coleraine can you see Scotland from? Its pretty inland is there a high point or something? Wouldn't mind having a look. Could see what I think was Scotland from Giant's causeway. And can see Donegal quite easily from Portstewart.


  • #208
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    That makes sense to me. As Scots Gaelic is a lot more common in Northern Scotland.

    Though amongst hardline unionists there's a commonly held belief that the ancestors of the Ulster planters came from Ulster. And the plantation was a "homecoming"

    What part of Coleraine can you see Scotland from? Its pretty inland is there a high point or something? Wouldn't mind having a look. Could see what I think was Scotland from Giant's causeway. And can see Donegal quite easily from Portstewart.

    Why would hardline unionists want to be descended from ulster i thought they were loyal to the queen and all??
    Yes you can see it really easily from the giants causeway heres a pic of it from the giants causeway http://www.flickr.com/photos/merbearstare/2882015312/. I live on a hill so thats the only reason why i can see it, if you goto castlerock beach which is west of coleraine you can see it. Its best to be viewed on top of knocklayde in ballycastle, i was up there on a very sunny summers day with no haze or nothing and could see away upto about troon. Theres another picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/nondesigner/4671600636/


  • #209
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    lugha wrote: »
    I would say living memory is a very good place to draw the line. It is absolutely impossible to hope to right every wrong in history, at some point you have to acknowledge that we are we are, and the only matter to consider is to determine the best way to proceed. If you are going to reverse every national boundary change that was brought about by wrong doing then can you suggest what you think the map of Europe should look like? Would you require that America be given back to the native Indians and the “settlers” return home? Likewise with the Aborigines in Australia?
    And horror of horrors, what would you do if it archaeologists were to find that the native Irish (?) actually supplanted another people (maybe some English folk!!! :eek:) a few thousand years ago. Would you be prepared to pack your bags and desist from your occupying ways? :pac:
    Being a policeman for history might be a fun topic for a discussion, but it utterly unpragmatic.
    First off when have I ever said that they should leave? I want a UI built on the foundations of the 1916 proclamation. A UI for Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Atheists etc, an inclusive multicultural society. They don't have to leave, unless they want to of course.


  • #210
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    First off when have I ever said that they should leave? I want a UI built on the foundations of the 1916 proclamation. A UI for Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Atheists etc, an inclusive multicultural society. They don't have to leave, unless they want to of course.

    Well i predict that a good lot will leave and as a matter of fact i know a few people who have said that they would leave is this was to happen.


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  • #211
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Well i predict that a good lot will leave and as a matter of fact i know a few people who have said that they would leave is this was to happen.
    I doubt that, why should they leave? It is their home too. Most nationalists didn't leave, although many were driven out. The largest forced movement of people since WW2 I believe.

    Out of interest have you read the 1916 proclamation Owen?


This discussion has been closed.
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