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Horrible day of fishing!

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  • 30-06-2010 12:33am
    #1
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭


    So I went fly fishing for the first time ever today... Went to a tiny stream thats full of small trout. It was a wonderful day for it and there was loads of trout rising. I don't know what the FUK I did wrong but I tried every fly I had and the guy in the shop said they were all great for streams. I'll upload a few pics of them later but I can't be arsed now :D and you may recognise them and tell me if there any good because for all I know he could be filling me up with sh1t. Any general tips would be appreciated and to be honest I'm dissapointed as there's no good rivers to go fly fishing for trout in the roscommon area :mad:. Maybe you could tell me what flies would suit streams.
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    #2
    decdon
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭decdon


    davidk11811 wrote: »
    So I went fly fishing for the first time ever today... Went to a tiny stream thats full of small trout. It was a wonderful day for it and there was loads of trout rising. I don't know what the FUK I did wrong but I tried every fly I had and the guy in the shop said they were all great for streams. I'll upload a few pics of them later but I can't be arsed now :D and you may recognise them and tell me if there any good because for all I know he could be filling me up with sh1t. Any general tips would be appreciated and to be honest I'm dissapointed as there's no good rivers to go fly fishing for trout in the roscommon area :mad:. Maybe you could tell me what flies would suit streams.

    I'm from the roscommon area aswell.Was it the Hind river by any chance.There were trout in that a few years back as i cought a few on the worm from it, but i since got word that they were short lived so i never tried in a couple of years. I'm only starting to have a bit of sucess on rivers now as i cought my first brownie on a river 1/2 an hour away. pm me if ya yant more details and I might be a bit more help even tho I'm no expert.....


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    #3
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    No it was in strokestown, theres a small stream there that runs through the park house and just past the Scania garage theres a small bridge and just upstream from there it's full of trout, a man I was talking to said he caught 130 in the past year on the worm, no space for fly fishing though.


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    #4
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    davidk11811 wrote: »
    No it was in strokestown, theres a small stream there that runs through the park house and just past the Scania garage theres a small bridge and just upstream from there it's full of trout, a man I was talking to said he caught 130 in the past year on the worm, no space for fly fishing though.


    in ireland a lot of trout are killed by bofoons worm and maggot fishing which is very sad really...a lot of the 'free' rivers are devoid of trout because of this 'me myself and I' greed driven mentality.........the thicks who partake in this activity will never learn. I suspect you may need to stick to club waters that have some degree of control.


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    #5
    coolwings
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    There is an assumption among new anglers that trout are easier caught on a worm compared to using artificial flies.
    And when you are learning to fly fish, and an old worm fisher wipes you eye you feel that "real bait" must be more effective than feathers on a hook.
    It is a confidence thing.
    However remember this : TROUT ARE INSECTIVORES, FIRSTLY, OPPORTUNISTS NEXT, AND PREDATORS AFTER THAT.
    Sure they eat worms, but for every worm a trout eats, it eats thousands of flies, and if you want to catch it, that's the way to place your bets.

    Now nobody said it was easy.
    Did you notice what I said about a beginner fly fisher encountering an experienced worm fisher?
    If you level the ability the fly fisher will bury the worm fisher every time, and the worm guy only has a chance of coming level during a dirty flood that pushed trout in under the bank.

    Experience for experience the fly will beat the worm 20:1. However some rivers suit the worm due to local characteristics, these are rocky gorges and holes under overhanging trees, and flat water during day when nothing is feeding much.

    I recently stood on a bridge over the Dodder with my family. There was a 1lb trout 12 feet under us under with two other little trouteens all clear adn we could see every scale, and wiggle of the smallest fin. I went to the car and took out a can of redworms and started feeding the river. The trout politely moved aside each time a worm floated downstream, allowed it to pass, and kept rising to the midges that were hatching.
    Eventually I got a worm into the concentrator, the thread of river leading downstream into the bigger trout, and carrying flies directly over it's head, the magic inch of water I would have casted flies onto if I were fishing for that fish. It decided to move away before the worm arrived (very close) or could pass under it, and swam calmly away up towards a covering tree.
    My wife and kids above looking in were fascinated.
    It just did not want worms, even worms with no line attached. But it was feeding hard until I hassled it, and tried to keep feeding on size 20 midges for 5 minutes after real live worms began drifting past.

    They don't always want steak and chips, but often the little snack that they already prefer the flavour of. Insects is what trout eat first.


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    #6
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    coolwings wrote: »
    There is an assumption among new anglers that trout are easier caught on a worm compared to using artificial flies.
    And when you are learning to fly fish, and an old worm fisher wipes you eye you feel that "real bait" must be more effective than feathers on a hook.
    It is a confidence thing.
    However remember this : TROUT ARE INSECTIVORES, FIRSTLY, OPPORTUNISTS NEXT, AND PREDATORS AFTER THAT.
    Sure they eat worms, but for every worm a trout eats, it eats thousands of flies, and if you want to catch it, that's the way to place your bets.

    Now nobody said it was easy.
    Did you notice what I said about a beginner fly fisher encountering an experienced worm fisher?
    If you level the ability the fly fisher will bury the worm fisher every time, and the worm guy only has a chance of coming level during a dirty flood that pushed trout in under the bank.

    Experience for experience the fly will beat the worm 20:1. However some rivers suit the worm due to local characteristics, these are rocky gorges and holes under overhanging trees, and flat water during day when nothing is feeding much.

    I recently stood on a bridge over the Dodder with my family. There was a 1lb trout 12 feet under us under with two other little trouteens all clear adn we could see every scale, and wiggle of the smallest fin. I went to the car and took out a can of redworms and started feeding the river. The trout politely moved aside each time a worm floated downstream, allowed it to pass, and kept rising to the midges that were hatching.
    Eventually I got a worm into the concentrator, the thread of river leading downstream into the bigger trout, and carrying flies directly over it's head, the magic inch of water I would have casted flies onto if I were fishing for that fish. It decided to move away before the worm arrived (very close) or could pass under it, and swam calmly away up towards a covering tree.
    My wife and kids above looking in were fascinated.
    It just did not want worms, even worms with no line attached. But it was feeding hard until I hassled it, and tried to keep feeding on size 20 midges for 5 minutes after real live worms began drifting past.

    They don't always want steak and chips, but often the little snack that they already prefer the flavour of. Insects is what trout eat first.
    That's very true, but what makes people think that flies are harder to use is the fact that they're using the wrong ones. That's why it's much more appealing to use a worm as it's usually reliable to the inexperienced fisherman. At least it feels like that for me anyway.


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    #7
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    I take it mepps wouldn't be the best for catching trout so?


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    #8
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    Mepps are great at the right times, but it's also hard to use them sometimes because of weed growth


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    #9
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    Had no luck so far with them meself. Will persevere to though.


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    #10
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    Do you fly fish aswell?


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    #11
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    Nah looks too confusing to me! Was offered lessons so may take them up if I ever can afford them:D


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    #12
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    lol Forget lessons, I just started teaching myself last week. It's not as complicated as I thought it would be.


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    #13
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    coolwings wrote: »
    There is an assumption among new anglers that trout are easier caught on a worm compared to using artificial flies.
    And when you are learning to fly fish, and an old worm fisher wipes you eye you feel that "real bait" must be more effective than feathers on a hook.
    It is a confidence thing.
    However remember this : TROUT ARE INSECTIVORES, FIRSTLY, OPPORTUNISTS NEXT, AND PREDATORS AFTER THAT.
    Sure they eat worms, but for every worm a trout eats, it eats thousands of flies, and if you want to catch it, that's the way to place your bets.

    very true indeed....spend the time with the fly and it will pay off in the long run......


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    #14
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    davidk11811 wrote: »
    lol Forget lessons, I just started teaching myself last week. It's not as complicated as I thought it would be.

    true..... a friend who fishes already can also help....its not rocket science to learn a simple back cast.....there's loads of information out there, books mags, forums, U-tube and all that jazz...then practise...then experience...:)


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    #15
    ironbluedun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭ironbluedun


    gooch2k9 wrote: »
    Nah looks too confusing to me! Was offered lessons so may take them up if I ever can afford them:D


    eh nope its not confusing at all.....give it a go....


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    #16
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    Does anyone know what lb line I should be using for trout, the line I'm using at the moment is quite heavy and often spooks them when I cast, or maybe I'm casting wrong?


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    #17
    coolwings
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    3 lbs mono, 5lbs fluoro tops in clear water.
    Do you know what you have on at the moment?


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    #18
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    coolwings wrote: »
    3 lbs mono, 5lbs fluoro tops in clear water.
    Do you know what you have on at the moment?
    Great thanks and no I don't know. What do you mean by 5lbs fluoro?


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    #19
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    Oh no I know what you mean, never mind haha


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    #20
    coolwings
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    That would be with dry flies.
    The nearer you get to the river bottom, the less they spook by line, so heavier lines are normal sometimes.
    Also with a heavy large fly, like a minnow imitation 1.5 inches long 5lb mono or 7lb fluoro might be needed.


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    #21
    SeaFields
    Registered Users Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    You said in your original post that you could see loads of trout rising? Was the water particularly calm, flat, slow? This could have been your problem. If you can see those trout rising, they can see you.

    Try finding fast deep water. You mightn't be able see the trout rising there but they are still there. In the faster water they have less time to decide whether to hit the fly or not - less time to scrutinise bad presentation, the leader, shadow of the line etc.

    Find pools below weirs and bridges, obstacles in the river and fish these areas. Tight lines! :)


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    #22
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful.

    Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.

    There is a lot of snobbery among some anglers who think fly fishing is a superior art form to other methods. It's a bit like a student in one martial art claiming his martial art is more effective than the others, in reality they all have their place.


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    #23
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    SeaFields wrote: »
    You said in your original post that you could see loads of trout rising? Was the water particularly calm, flat, slow? This could have been your problem. If you can see those trout rising, they can see you.

    Try finding fast deep water. You mightn't be able see the trout rising there but they are still there. In the faster water they have less time to decide whether to hit the fly or not - less time to scrutinise bad presentation, the leader, shadow of the line etc.

    Find pools below weirs and bridges, obstacles in the river and fish these areas. Tight lines! :)
    Yes very calm and shallow, that was the problem then. I'm going somewhere different next after I'm back from holidays. I'll miss this forum :( haha


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    #24
    cj salmon
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭cj salmon


    SeaFields wrote: »
    You said in your original post that you could see loads of trout rising? Was the water particularly calm, flat, slow? This could have been your problem. If you can see those trout rising, they can see you.

    Try finding fast deep water. You mightn't be able see the trout rising there but they are still there. In the faster water they have less time to decide whether to hit the fly or not - less time to scrutinise bad presentation, the leader, shadow of the line etc.

    Find pools below weirs and bridges, obstacles in the river and fish these areas. Tight lines! :)

    i still consider myself a novice as there is always something to learn in fly fishing,thats what sets it apart from other methods,and makes it so enjoyable.get to know your river,talk to locals,tackle dealers maybe! find out what the trout feed on and get some flys to suit.i remember it took me plenty of outings ,observing and hassling other anglers/mates,borrowing books,watching dvds,practising casting,buying the wrong flies and leaders etc.before i got to some kind of comfortable level,(although i would reccomend one casting lesson if you can afford it,to speed things up,and help presentation of flies),something i regret not doing when i started out.


    this is good advice from seafields,,,i found calm pools with rising fish could be frustrating when i just set out.as your casting is probably just puttng fish down (even the most experienced cater can do this in this type of water especially on a clear day),try wet fly down and across in streamy runs at first,this is the best way to learn how to fly fish imo.dont get too frustrated,if the trout are there they can be caught,with a little more thinking about your methods and a hell of alot of practice and help off some of the lads on here you will be catching trout on the fly in no time!!!!

    how small is the stream? i fish very small streams ,my favourite way to fish in fact,and can answer some questions on this type of fishing .
    the biggest piece of advice for the small streams is STEALTH!!!
    wade with slow steady paces,no splashing and such,no shadows (including your rod)!! stay on the bank and hidden if possible.these trout are easily spooked

    good luck,,and enjoy it


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    #25
    cj salmon
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭cj salmon


    snow ghost wrote: »
    Trout spend the majority of their time feeding near the bottom, hence why wormers can be very successful.

    Reality is bait, fly or spinning all have their place and can be as equally effective.

    There is a lot of snobbery among some anglers who think fly fishing is a superior art form to other methods. It's a bit like a student in one martial art claiming his martial art is more effective than the others, in reality they all have their place.

    this is untrue,,,as fly fishing is effective in many different situations ie: surface feeders-dry fly,emergers etc , sub surface- wet fly,bottom feeders-nymphs, minnow feeders - lures to name just a few

    and as stated by someone else trout eat flys number one!! that is what they search for ,FACT ,,and the trout take flys at each stage of their life from pupa to adult,,each stage can be imatated by a different type of fly and method,,
    different methods of fly fishing are effective in many different ,almost all conditions and feeding situations where as worming is only effective for bottom feeders or after floods ,and the spinners to enduce the trouts curiosity/aggresion,,so i would think,for trout any way,that the fly is a superior method.
    now thats not snobbery,thats facts,,
    i think your theory could be applied to some salmon fly fishers alright,when salmon fly fishing is essentialy lure fishing only,and the worm,shrimp and spin all have their day,as its a level playing field when the fish are not feeding ;)


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    #26
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    cj salmon wrote: »
    i still consider myself a novice as there is always something to learn in fly fishing,thats what sets it apart from other methods,and makes it so enjoyable.get to know your river,talk to locals,tackle dealers maybe! find out what the trout feed on and get some flys to suit.i remember it took me plenty of outings ,observing and hassling other anglers/mates,borrowing books,watching dvds,practising casting,buying the wrong flies and leaders etc.before i got to some kind of comfortable level,(although i would reccomend one casting lesson if you can afford it,to speed things up,and help presentation of flies),something i regret not doing when i started out.


    this is good advice from seafields,,,i found calm pools with rising fish could be frustrating when i just set out.as your casting is probably just puttng fish down (even the most experienced cater can do this in this type of water especially on a clear day),try wet fly down and across in streamy runs at first,this is the best way to learn how to fly fish imo.dont get too frustrated,if the trout are there they can be caught,with a little more thinking about your methods and a hell of alot of practice and help off some of the lads on here you will be catching trout on the fly in no time!!!!

    how small is the stream? i fish very small streams ,my favourite way to fish in fact,and can answer some questions on this type of fishing .
    the biggest piece of advice for the small streams is STEALTH!!!
    wade with slow steady paces,no splashing and such,no shadows (including your rod)!! stay on the bank and hidden if possible.these trout are easily spooked

    good luck,,and enjoy it
    The stream iss TINY and I mean TINY! 1 metre wide, 2 at most. I think I might give up on it and fish rivers. Still, ANY tips would be highly appreciated!


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    #27
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    cj salmon wrote: »
    this is untrue,,,as fly fishing is effective in many different situations ie: surface feeders-dry fly,emergers etc , sub surface- wet fly,bottom feeders-nymphs, minnow feeders - lures to name just a few

    and as stated by someone else trout eat flys number one!! that is what they search for ,FACT ,,and the trout take flys at each stage of their life from pupa to adult,,each stage can be imatated by a different type of fly and method,,
    different methods of fly fishing are effective in many different ,almost all conditions and feeding situations where as worming is only effective for bottom feeders or after floods ,and the spinners to enduce the trouts curiosity/aggresion,,so i would think,for trout any way,that the fly is a superior method.
    now thats not snobbery,thats facts,,
    i think your theory could be applied to some salmon fly fishers alright,when salmon fly fishing is essentialy lure fishing only,and the worm,shrimp and spin all have their day,as its a level playing field when the fish are not feeding ;)

    CJ Salmon,

    You stating things to be facts doesn't make them so, lets deal with one very simple fact - what you state is merely your opinion.

    As I said each method has it's benefits and can be equally effective.

    You are obviously biased towards fly fishing and are displaying the elitism and snobbery that I spoke of.


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    #28
    davidk11811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭davidk11811


    snow ghost wrote: »
    CJ Salmon,

    You stating things to be facts doesn't make them so, lets deal with one very simple fact - what you state is merely your opinion.

    As I said each method has it's benefits and can be equally effective.

    You are obviously biased towards fly fishing and are displaying the elitism and snobbery that I spoke of.
    True, worms have their place but the fact of the matter is Trout mainly eat flies, and there are lots of flies for different situations unlike the worm. Saying fly fishing is better and more reliable isn't being snobby.


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    #29
    cj salmon
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭cj salmon


    are you trying to dispute that flys at various stages of life are not a trouts primary diet?

    so this would indicate that imatating this food would be the most effective way to catch them,am i wrong?

    i am biased in the case of fly fishing,as it is the most effective way to catch wild trout in a serious of different conditions against any other method that i have tried,so i am not merely stating facts its tried an tested!!!!
    so its not snobbery around here,,i am however sensing some ignorance to factual information :rolleyes:


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    #30
    cj salmon
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭cj salmon


    davidk11811 wrote: »
    The stream iss TINY and I mean TINY! 1 metre wide, 2 at most. I think I might give up on it and fish rivers. Still, ANY tips would be highly appreciated!


    i wouldnt give up on your local stream,just spend some time getting to know it,talk to other local fly anglers if any,see what insects on the surface ,try a couple of flys of the same general size and profile.people sometimes make the mistake that smaller streams are easier,but small shallow streams make for spooky trout,,this is where stealth acurate casting and not making disturbance are essential,,a tough but rewarding place to start ;)

    in the mean time maybe fish a larger water to build confidence and catch a few fish,improve your casting etc without the worry of spooking fish.wet fly is great for this as i said,shallow streamy runs are good places to start!

    some general patterns to start are
    the drys are mainly generals i would have for small streams:
    cdc elk hair
    adams
    f fly
    klinkhammers in olive and black

    wets
    march brown
    black and silver spider
    partridge and orange
    snipe and purple
    waterhen bloa
    greenwells glory

    hares ear nymphs
    phesant tail nymphs


    hope that helps a bit


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    #31
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    cj salmon wrote: »
    are you trying to dispute that flys at various stages of life are not a trouts primary diet?

    so this would indicate that imatating this food would be the most effective way to catch them,am i wrong?

    i am biased in the case of fly fishing,as it is the most effective way to catch wild trout in a serious of different conditions against any other method that i have tried,so i am not merely stating facts its tried an tested!!!!
    so its not snobbery around here,,i am however sensing some ignorance to factual information :rolleyes:

    What I am saying is quite clear from my posts. Have a re-read it may help you understand.

    Just because you have tried something doesn't mean it is the most effective way, it could be you just aren't very good at other methods.

    You may well be sensing ignorance of factual information, it seems to permeate throughout your posts on this matter.

    It's a mute argument as to one method being more effective than the other - as I said, and I stand by, they each have their place and can be equally effective.

    An understanding of all methods could help improve your overall knowledge of your quarry. If you don't appreciate that, so be it, I ain't here to educate you.


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