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Why do Americans want to be Irish?

124

Comments

  • #92
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Speaking of links....


  • #93
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Overheal wrote: »
    Speaking of links....

    No it was pasted.


  • #94
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Okay, don't link to your yahoo thing then...

    Its not relevant anyway; You don't see a lot of people claim german ancestry because theres not as many around where you're traveling. As to why there are so many of them, you could argue its fudged numbers, idc, or you could peg it to the pursuit of religious freedom and all that hip hop.

    I imagine a lot of American tourists to Germany have descendancy.

    But I hope I answered your original questions.


  • #95
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    "Germans didn't do anything". What? Germans were one of the biggest waves of immigrants to the US; as the Ellis Island foundation notes, in 1890, there were as many Germans in New York as there were in Hamburg. A lot of them ended up in the Upper Midwest because they arrived as the frontiers were opening, and were able to obtain parcels of land (once the US government kicked the Native Americans out).

    Making a historical comparison for who counts as "German" is complicated because when many people emigrated, borders were still being redrawn in Central Europe. But the historical record is quite clear when it comes to emigration numbers, claimed ancestry, and the prevalence of German language and culture in certain enclaves of the US. Clearly anyone who questions the German presence in America has never been to Wisconsin. (And to bring it back to the OP again, most German-Americans weren't chest-thumping nationalists from 1914 - 1945; i.e. a whole generation grew up without their ethnic background being emphasized. Irish-Americans didn't have two world wars to be ashamed about).


  • #96
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Let's jot forget poor Annie Moore all of just 15 years


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  • #97
    Feeona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭Feeona


    I have great time for Americans. Their education system was about twenty five years ahead of Ireland's before the t'internet came along and gave us a kick up the ar*e.
    I've always found Americans, on a one to one basis, to be extremely generous and appreciative of other cultures, always eager to learn about the country they're in. Whether it sticks or not, I don't know :p
    I was working with Americans when George Bush was re-elected in 2004, and the slagging they got about Bush and America in general was unmerciful! I was impressed by their mild, neutral responses, never rising to the bait. As a result, the people who were doing the slagging looked like total idiots. If an Amercian started throwing his weight around saying that the Irish are stupid for x,y,z, we Irish wouldn't be so mild!
    U S A, U S A!


  • #98
    mindydawne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭mindydawne


    Overheal wrote: »
    So you're trying to say because some randomers on Yahoo (...) told you otherwise, ~50 million americans do not have german descendancy?

    I dont see why that is so hard to believe. Theres an estimated 36m irish americans, for example. And germany itself has a population of 80m compared to Ireland's 6m.


    I'm American, and from my experience, there are a lot more German decendants in America. aka most of the people I knew/worked with/ever spoken about this were from German heritage. Yeah, sure... there are a lot of people claiming Irish ancestry- and they are REALLY proud and vocal about it. The people who claim something like 1/8 on their mothers side are a bit ridiculous, but well... there's a real longing for your roots kind of thing when your family decended from another country. I wouldn't say it's Americans wanting to be Irish, it's more Americans identifying with their ancestors homeland. It's a bit different when you know your family lived in the same country generation after generation. I imagine in a few hundred years or so, most Americans will just consider themselves... American.


  • #99
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    owenc wrote: »
    So your saying that the republican culture went off to america with them and stayed there?? My granny is like that, (on my mothers side) so that must be true, sometimes she really annoys me.:mad:

    Why is it annoying? :confused:


  • #100
    wonton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭wonton


    mindydawne wrote: »
    I'm American, and from my experience, there are a lot more German decendants in America. aka most of the people I knew/worked with/ever spoken about this were from German heritage. Yeah, sure... there are a lot of people claiming Irish ancestry- and they are REALLY proud and vocal about it. The people who claim something like 1/8 on their mothers side are a bit ridiculous, but well... there's a real longing for your roots kind of thing when your family decended from another country. I wouldn't say it's Americans wanting to be Irish, it's more Americans identifying with their ancestors homeland. It's a bit different when you know your family lived in the same country generation after generation. I imagine in a few hundred years or so, most Americans will just consider themselves... American.

    ye german is the single biggest ancestry race in america, in fact about 25 percent of the union american were german. its alot to do with the world wars and the general anti german attitude afterwards.

    and paddys day has helped alot, and i suppose halloween which is actually irish aswel


  • #101
    Augmerson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    Feeona wrote: »
    I have great time for Americans. Their education system was about twenty five years ahead of Ireland's before the t'internet came along and gave us a kick up the ar*e.

    1276818353856.jpg


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  • #102
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    The 2000 U.S. census asked people to self-report their ancestry. You could id more than one. Overall, 15.2% of respondents claimed German ancestry, and 10.8% claimed Irish ancestry.


  • #103
    Feeona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭Feeona


    Augmerson wrote: »
    1276818353856.jpg

    There should be a question mark after 'what'. I think you should avail of the new and improved education system.;)

    USA USA


  • #104
    Augmerson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    Feeona wrote: »
    There should be a question mark after 'what'. I think you should avail of the new and improved education system.;)

    USA USA

    Your trolling surely?


  • #105
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Why is it annoying? :confused:

    Because she runs down british people and goes on like a general nationalist and that does my head in because everything Britain does is crap to them and they want a united ireland.


  • #106
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    The 2000 U.S. census asked people to self-report their ancestry. You could id more than one. Overall, 15.2% of respondents claimed German ancestry, and 10.8% claimed Irish ancestry.

    Its funny how the scotch irish number is similar to scotland when there is far my scottish people in scotland then ulster scots here, which leads me to the conclusion that people just tick off the one they want, i mean theres bound to be far more scottish americans in america than that.


  • #107
    Antamojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭Antamojo


    wonton wrote: »
    and i suppose halloween which is actually irish aswel

    Never thought of Halloween, that's two days the Irish have influenced which is celebrated globally.
    I can't think of any other nation which has this (if there is an obvious one tell me).


  • #108
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    owenc wrote: »
    Its funny how the scotch irish number is similar to scotland when there is far my scottish people in scotland then ulster scots here, which leads me to the conclusion that people just tick off the one they want, i mean theres bound to be far more scottish americans in america than that.

    It's self-identification. There was a study where the interviewer asked people to initially self-identify, and then it came out in interviews that they had a more varied background than they originally indicated. People basically opt to choose an identity.

    That said, why are you insisting that there may be more or less of certain groups based on current population data? The bulk of European migration to the US took place between 1840-1920; some of these "states" - including the Republic of Ireland - didn't even exist yet.


  • #109
    Augmerson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    It's self-identification. There was a study where the interviewer asked people to initially self-identify, and then it came out in interviews that they had a more varied background than they originally indicated. People basically opt to choose an identity.

    That said, why are you insisting that there may be more or less of certain groups based on current population data? The bulk of European migration to the US took place between 1840-1920; some of these "states" - including the Republic of Ireland - didn't even exist yet.

    Irish people existed though right? *looks up wikipedia*


  • #110
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    owenc wrote: »
    Because she runs down british people and goes on like a general nationalist and that does my head in because everything Britain does is crap to them and they want a united ireland.

    A lot of people who strongly identify as Irish in the US would like to see a united Ireland. People where my mom grew up in Chicago are more nationalist than most of the Irish I've met in Dublin. One of my mom's older neighbors was an ardent republican who spent time in Kilmainham, and another neighbor was an IRA gun runner during the Anglo-Irish war. For that generation, and their kids and grandchildren, the British were and are THE problem in Irish politics.


  • #111
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    A lot of people who strongly identify as Irish in the US would like to see a united Ireland. People where my mom grew up in Chicago are more nationalist than most of the Irish I've met in Dublin. One of my mom's older neighbors was an ardent republican who spent time in Kilmainham, and another neighbor was an IRA gun runner during the Anglo-Irish war. For that generation, and their kids and grandchildren, the British were and are THE problem in Irish politics.

    Yea they inherited that and probably heard propaganda etc about what was happening so would become even more bitter, btw my granny isn't american.


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  • #112
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Augmerson wrote: »
    Irish people existed though right? *looks up wikipedia*

    I'm just drawing a distinction between nations and states. Germanic people existed as a nation, even though they weren't all within the borders of the German state at the time. My general point was that it's an impossible task to "match" how people self identify today with historical "state" population data, since the two often weren't the same.


  • #113
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    owenc wrote: »
    Yea they inherited that and probably heard propaganda etc about what was happening so would become even more bitter, btw my granny isn't american.

    Or they heard it from relatives, friends, and family. Or saw it for themselves. My mother still remembers seeing the aftermath of the 1969 Bombay Street bombings on the evening news in America.

    And if your granny isn't American then I think I missed your point; is your problem then the fact that she is a nationalist?


  • #114
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Or they heard it from relatives, friends, and family. Or saw it for themselves. My mother still remembers seeing the aftermath of the 1969 Bombay Street bombings on the evening news in America.

    And if your granny isn't American then I think I missed your point; is your problem then the fact that she is a nationalist?

    Yes thats why i was saying that i did not like this.


  • #115
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes thats why i was saying that i did not like this.

    Don't like what? That Americans identify as Irish, that Americans identify as Irish nationalists, that anyone identifies as Irish nationalists, or all of the above?


  • #116
    Star Bingo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Star Bingo


    whats more of a concern is irish that think they're american.. or 'british'! whatever that stands for in 2010..

    the battle for young hearts & minds via media is a dangerous thing.


  • #117
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    brummytom wrote: »
    : "Heeey, I'm Irish!".. 'No you're not'; but I've been asked many times if I'm Irish, I prefer to just reply "I'm English, from Irish stock"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKoS5X4SMrY


  • #118
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    fontanalis wrote: »
    And it's no more embarassing than some Irish people claiming JFK was Irish.

    Interestingly, JFK's father hated being Irish, he even shunned his Irish heritage so he could join the WASPS, however hard he tried to shun his heritage the WASPS still looked down on him as a 'Paddy' which he detested.


  • #119
    watna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,367 ✭✭✭✭watna


    It's not only an American thing kiwis do it too. I'm always getting told people are Irish when they find out where I am from. It's nowhere near like in the states though. Kiwis will distinguish between being descended from Irish people or having Irish heritage as opposed to "being Irish" in the way that Americans will say "I am Irish" but have never been to Ireland.

    A friend of mine is big in to the whole Irish heritage thing. She has clan reunions and everything where they meet all their distant Irish relatives (that are all kiwis too). She's desparate to move to Ireland and wants to get married in Dublin. Kiwis are also big in to being Scottish. Hamish and Lachlan are really common names here (I know 3 of each - one of them a guy at work's son who was name Lachlan as the family were "Scottish" but left Scotland a few generations ago) and a lot of people really cling to their Scottish heritage. It just comes from living somewhere where most people are descended from immigrants (except if you're maori which has a strong culture and even they emigrated here too originally).


  • #120
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    watna wrote: »
    It's not only an American thing kiwis do it too. I'm always getting told people are Irish when they find out where I am from. It's nowhere near like in the states though. Kiwis will distinguish between being descended from Irish people or having Irish heritage as opposed to "being Irish" in the way that Americans will say "I am Irish" but have never been to Ireland.

    A friend of mine is big in to the whole Irish heritage thing. She has clan reunions and everything where they meet all their distant Irish relatives (that are all kiwis too). She's desparate to move to Ireland and wants to get married in Dublin. Kiwis are also big in to being Scottish. Hamish and Lachlan are really common names here (I know 3 of each - one of them a guy at work's son who was name Lachlan as the family were "Scottish" but left Scotland a few generations ago) and a lot of people really cling to their Scottish heritage. It just comes from living somewhere where most people are descended from immigrants (except if you're maori which has a strong culture and even they emigrated here too originally).

    thats interesting, i didnt realise that new zealand was home to many of irish stock. if someone from any country with an irish grandfather etc. said to me they were irish id gladly accept them as such. i take that as a compliment


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  • #121
    bobthefarmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭bobthefarmer


    mindydawne wrote: »
    I'm American, and from my experience, there are a lot more German decendants in America. aka most of the people I knew/worked with/ever spoken about this were from German heritage. Yeah, sure... there are a lot of people claiming Irish ancestry- and they are REALLY proud and vocal about it. The people who claim something like 1/8 on their mothers side are a bit ridiculous, but well... there's a real longing for your roots kind of thing when your family decended from another country. I wouldn't say it's Americans wanting to be Irish, it's more Americans identifying with their ancestors homeland. It's a bit different when you know your family lived in the same country generation after generation. I imagine in a few hundred years or so, most Americans will just consider themselves... American.

    You bet! I am proud to be 'Merican. My Scotch-Irish Name is secure although I am likely 88% German ancestry. That certainly does not make me a mutt. I have a tremendously Godly heritage, been blessed by my parents to know a full six generations on all sides, can trace my roots deep into European history. Our ancestrial roots lie in emigration due to religious persecution of various forms: Hugeunot, Ulster-Irish Presbyterians - Covententors, Prussians, Old German Lutherans, Austrian Exhultants, Friends of Menno, etc. God has truly blessed our Native Land. May we confess our failures that he continue to do so. Our land has always been open to the Cold, Wet, Hungry, Persecuted, and lately, just about anybody. We need God fearing citizens!:D


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