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Name a Good Irish Recording

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    #92
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    but it does pay the mortgage and luckily, ive never had to resort to working with artists i dont consider quality, go figure...

    anyway, you're obviously looking at it thru a differant window than i am so lets agree to disagree :)

    Totally man, I'm all about promoting an interesting discussion here. I love music. I'll listen to pretty much anything. Some days I just put on a CD and sit there and listen to it and appreciate it and other times I'll immerse myself in it it to try and pick out on all the little complexities. Listening to music, playing music, talking about music...these are my favourite things to do. I'm trying to walk the fine line between pragmatist and philistine here though, that's all. And if you're loving music and loving working with music, power to you too man.


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    #93
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    TelePaul wrote: »
    Then we go back to the first scenario: Band A has a stellar product. They attract the interest of Label X.

    unfortunatly band B were from dublin and the only large labels were too interested in stuffin the bolivian stuff up their nose and finding the next jedward, so they signed with the smaller indie label who they felt that while they may not be able to shift as many units, at least they wouldnt be butt fuked by some sleaze in an armani suit and gold chain

    band A were from london and got picked up by EMI who tried to sell a studio to promote them because... wait for it... they ARE jedward!!!!!!!!


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    #94
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    krd wrote: »
    Milan
    My badly recorded Youtube clip of me fcuking about with my Roland MC 505 while drunk - has got around 2000 views.

    It's coz you're hot dude! :eek:


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    #95
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    unfortunatly band B were from dublin and the only large labels were too interested in stuffin the bolivian stuff up their nose and finding the next jedward, so they signed with the smaller indie label who they felt that while they may not be able to shift as many units, at least they wouldnt be butt fuked by some sleaze in an armani suit and gold chain

    band A were from london and got picked up by EMI who tried to sell a studio to promote them because... wait for it... they ARE jedward!!!!!!!!

    Band A were so good the label moved them not to London, but to Nashville, and made Jedward their whipping boys while they partied with Kris Kristofferson and Steve Earle, the latter of which spent most of his time fighting.


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    #96
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    TelePaul wrote: »
    Band A were so good the label moved them not to London, but to Nashville, and made Jedward their whipping boys while they partied with Kris Kristofferson and Steve Earle, the latter of which spent most of his time fighting.

    wow.. my entire music career gets laid out in public... the shame :o


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    #97
    krd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    I would actually like to Paul defend himself.

    Is Paul Brewer the godfather of generic Irish indie?


    He may say no.


    But if brought before a court - something like the Nurembourg trials - would he be able to say in all conciousness he was not responsible - that he was only following orders, and fixing the eq etc - he couldn't have stopped even if he had wanted to. Do you think the Brewer defence would fly in an international court of music lovers.

    Paul, how many sessions have you sat in upon where you could have said stop, but you didn't?


    Thank god, I only make music, badly, for my own pleasure. If I depended on it for a living I'd be in the dock with Paul. (Maybe they'd cut me a plea bargain - if I'd turned the big fish in)


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    #98
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    TelePaul wrote: »
    Based on the only criterion espoused here, and given that the 'man on the street' determines who is successful...then yes.

    That's crazy.

    I've never met an A&R or label guy that didn't know of a 'good' record that got screwed.

    I honestly believe that your demand that there be a single criteria that can be uses to define quality is wildly over simplistic.

    It leaves you open to constructs like:

    telepaul believes that Hootie and the Blowfish is better than Shostakovich.


    There's just endless variations of that crap that'll make you look clueless to 99.9% of people, including your peers.

    Quality has to be more than sales, and it can't be defined by a single criteria.


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    #99
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    krd wrote: »
    Milan

    Music being great or not is not going to be a basis for it to sell or support itself. It's a **** lot easier these days - if you make niche music that's good - you can get it to your audience as easy as "click here to upload" - promote it to the bulletin boards and chat sites where there are people waiting for the stuff.

    In the old days - getting a CD or Vinyl pressed and promoted in another market was torturous. Now there's no real excuse.


    And Orphan sonic, or whatever their called, have had only three thousand youtube views in 3 years for their flash looking video - there's a video on youtube of me, with a friend, with stockings over our heads waving about hairdryers as guns, that's had more views than that.

    My badly recorded Youtube clip of me fcuking about with my Roland MC 505 while drunk - has got around 2000 views.

    But

    It's like this

    Status Quo, were a very very very very poor man's Pink Floyd, until they discovered the Quo chord.

    And I'm not going to say they were ****, they were not Rachmaninov

    But, where would you rather be - Rachmaninov recital or With the Quo?

    Even the Stones ripped the Quo off.

    Milan, Rachmaninov or the Quo - I've got tickets to both and beer - you've just got five seconds to decide.

    I say the Quo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-8K8Hj8bxE

    Milan, we're going to see the fcuking Quo

    Hahaha... I suppose I should have read this BEFORE I made the Shostakovich comparison. ;)

    still, if you got that ticket, I'm down!


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    #100
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    That's crazy.

    I've never met an A&R or label guy that didn't know of a 'good' record that got screwed.

    I honestly believe that your demand that there be a single criteria that can be uses to define quality is wildly over simplistic.

    It leaves you open to constructs like:

    telepaul believes that Hootie and the Blowfish is better than Shostakovich.


    There's just endless variations of that crap that'll make you look clueless to 99.9% of people, including your peers.

    Quality has to be more than sales, and it can't be defined by a single criteria.

    Are you going to present a better or alternative? Because for all the disbelief, not one of you has suggested a different means of measuring success. Also, with success being contingent on volume, I'd actually be in the majority, and you in the minority.

    Honestly, I'd love for music to be viewed as something sacred with the opinions of the masses ignored as ill-founded and misguided...but that's not real life.


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    #101
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    krd wrote: »

    Thank god, I only make music, badly, for my own pleasure

    You and me both mate!


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    #102
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    telepaul and jedward in homoerotic reach-around shocker :eek:


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    #103
    jtsuited
    Registered Users Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jtsuited


    telepaul, i think a MAJOR thing you are forgetting is that the vast majority of the public (nevermind the music-buying public) are fcukin idiots.

    The records that sell the most are those that have the BROADEST appeal. Simple maths really. Of course you end up with 'broad' art which is by definition 'lowest common denominator'.
    Now that's not saying that it's automatically rubbish. some of the greatest music works on a universal level and is accessible by idiots and intellectuals alike.
    But you get the point.

    Here's a thought....Charlie Sheen is the highest paid TV actor in the world right now. Depressing huh?


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    #104
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    telepaul and jedward in homoerotic reach-around shocker :eek:

    3 = circle-jerk!!! :eek:


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    #105
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    TelePaul wrote: »
    Are you going to present a better or alternative? Because for all the disbelief, not one of you has suggested a different means of measuring success. Also, with success being contingent on volume, I'd actually be in the majority, and you in the minority.

    Honestly, I'd love for music to be viewed as something sacred with the opinions of the masses ignored as ill-founded and misguided...but that's not real life.

    The better alternative (i.e. reality) is: complexity.

    There's a million reasons why things succeed and fail. Learning how to sell country won't teach you how to sell pop, recessions make huge records sell less than mediocre records do during a boom, novelty can't be predicted and is sometimes the biggest seller of them all.

    The solution your looking for is this:

    There is no simple solution.

    We all try (at least a lot of us) to maximise the good, minimise the bad, plan for failure and aim for success etc., etc., etc., but man, if you can't see that your oversimplification of this issue is actually self-detrimental then what can I do?

    Let me give you an example:

    Nirvana Bleach was not a big seller, based on your criteria, it wasn't good. BUT DGC heard it and heard $$$$. They worked with an artist you'd dismiss as bad and make A KILLING.

    This **** is complex man... if it was easy then you'd be a billionaire.


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    #106
    jtsuited
    Registered Users Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jtsuited


    Oh and btw, whatever you might think of current bands yadda yadda, let's remember Paul's career defining work in that most abstract and misunderstood genres - country & irish (is that the name of it yeah?).

    NO person who has ever worked on that kind of stuff can pontificate about musical standards. Ever.


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    #107
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    jtsuited wrote: »
    telepaul, i think a MAJOR thing you are forgetting is that the vast majority of the public (nevermind the music-buying public) are fcukin idiots.

    Yep, they sure are. But life goes on. Art, Film, Music, Literature...all governed by the whims of the idiot public. So is the elected government. What's the alternative, Fascism? :eek: :)


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    #108
    krd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    Milan, I like some of the stuff you've done.

    But you have it the wrong way around - if you have to push it on some Irish record company dick. Then you have it the wrong way round. It's not how it works - people get excited or they don't.

    You have to have them coming to you.

    People have this idea, that the A&R guy can wave a magic wand and turn mediocre music into compelling produc. That they can turn a bunch of mediocre, jangle, indie musos into a taut early rage against the machine, with a flick of their magic.

    News flash Milan. Those record company guys are not musicians, or producers or anything else.

    They only take what's there already and push it. If there's nothing to push, what can they push?

    As Paul Brewer says; "you can't turn a pile of turnips into aubergines"

    Milan...Everyone likes a little turnip now and again - but don't expect people to swallow it, if you force it down their throats.


    Milan.. they have to come to you.


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    #109
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    This **** is complex man... if it was easy then you'd be a billionaire.

    I am a billionaire. I financed ABBA's first endeavour.


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    #110
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    whos going to milan now?


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    #111
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    TelePaul wrote: »
    I am a billionaire. I financed ABBA's first endeavour.

    only cause you fancied benni.


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    #112
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    whos going to milan now?

    Me and Jedward. There's a KFC ad that needs doing.


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    #113
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    DamagedTrax wrote: »
    only cause you fancied benni.

    Was that the hot chick, no?


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    #114
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    krd wrote: »
    Milan, I like some of the stuff you've done.

    But you have it the wrong way around - if you have to push it on some Irish record company dick. Then you have it the wrong way round. It's not how it works - people get excited or they don't.

    You have to have them coming to you.

    People have this idea, that the A&R guy can wave a magic wand and turn mediocre music into compelling produc. That they can turn a bunch of mediocre, jangle, indie musos into a taut early rage against the machine, with a flick of their magic.

    News flash Milan. Those record company guys are not musicians, or producers or anything else.

    They only take what's there already and push it. If there's nothing to push, what can they push?

    As Paul Brewer says; "you can't turn a pile of turnips into aubergines"

    Milan...Everyone likes a little turnip now and again - but don't expect people to swallow it, if you force it down their throats.


    Milan.. they have to come to you.

    I'm not sure what I've said that makes you think I disagree with any of this?

    I don't!

    I agree 100% with all of this!

    My main explanation of how musicians get success is this:

    A businessman hears your music and it sounds like money.

    My WHOLE plan is to get them to come to me (and they are).

    I'm just not biting yet, because if I do I've undersold my ****. Never sign a deal unless you've got at least 4-5 offers.... better yet, wait for 10.

    That's my belief... and my plan.


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    #115
    jtsuited
    Registered Users Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭jtsuited


    TelePaul wrote: »
    Yep, they sure are. But life goes on. Art, Film, Music, Literature...all governed by the whims of the idiot public. So is the elected government. What's the alternative, Fascism? :eek: :)

    well...no. democracy was never envisaged by the greeks to be a system where everyone got a vote. there were 500 people who had to be knowledgable enough to vote and ignorant peasants had no say.
    Which makes a lot more sense and results in a far better world I think. but more on topic (although i don't think that discussion is entirely irrelevant to this thread).

    By your logic now, 'success' in music is dependent on dumbing down your art to appeal to the widest audience possible. Which in most rational intelligent people's eyes seems like a right sh1te way of going about things. Even if you have 'success' doing this, you're really just a sh1t peddler, filling the world with more and more sh1t in the pursuit of your own purely careerist goals.


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    #116
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    TelePaul wrote: »
    I am a billionaire.

    Can I just say I agree with everything you've said.

    That MilanPan!c guy is an ass.


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    #117
    TelePaul
    Registered Users Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭TelePaul


    jtsuited wrote: »
    Even if you have 'success' doing this, you're really just a sh1t peddler, filling the world with more and more sh1t in the pursuit of your own purely careerist goals.

    But you've just described the music industry at large? I don't like it, but I'm not going to pretend that this isn't how things stand.


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    #118
    krd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    MilanPan!c wrote: »


    Nirvana Bleach was not a big seller, based on your criteria, it wasn't good. BUT DGC heard it and heard $$$$. They worked with an artist you'd dismiss as bad and make A KILLING.

    Nirvana Bleach, was recorded for $600. It was paid for by a guy who sold his motorcycle to finance the production, so he could be credited on the sleeve notes as the guitarist - so he could pick up girls. His name has now since been removed.

    There's some incredible stuff on bleach. But all it is, is a bunch of very talented musicians who've been playing together for a while, recording the songs in a demo studio. Some of the stuff is amazingly complex. But musicians without the aid of modern studio trickery, have been known to play complex music.

    In fact - if you created an album, with lots of studio magic, overdubbs etc - then got a band to learn and play the parts - you'd likely have something complete, you could get in a few takes, that would sound far superior to your original recording.

    Great music can be recorded in a demo studio, for **** all, if you have the great musicians to begin with. And when Nirvana recorded Bleach they were bums - not big rockstars - Or Geena Dale-Haze and the Champions.


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    #119
    PaulBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    krd wrote: »
    I would actually like to Paul defend himself.

    Is Paul Brewer the godfather of generic Irish indie?


    He may say no.

    Well I've recorded very little rock really ....

    I may well be The God of Country and Irish though. ;)


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    #120
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    krd wrote: »
    Geena Dale-Haze and the Champions.

    love em!


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    #121
    PaulBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭PaulBrewer


    krd wrote: »
    You've got to hear this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETh0Kfxk2BY

    It's a feckin cover fer fecks sake !


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