Name a Good Irish Recording

MilanPan!c

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i personally cant stand the beatles.. am i wrong not to like them?

Of course you are, you idiot!

novarock

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Come on, 'The Feeling' do all that so much better .... and they've choruses, No ?

The thread title says recordings, not songs. Me personally (not an engineer, a lot of interest in it, and a good bit of studio experience) - I think that the orphan code recordings were/are excellent, and having seen them live, they reflect the sound of the band excellently.

I think the way music is recorded in Ireland has changed in the ten years that I have been in bands. There is far too much emphasis on post production - which I am not a fan of, and also, a lot of the bands in dublin are not willing to spend any money on decent recording time.

From my point of view, my own band spent a lot of time pre-recording getting everything sorted, demoing the tracks ourselves, figuring out the in's and out's, nailing down any electronic/sequence additions to the tracks, all to ensure that we achieved a sound that WE were satisified with.. We spent one of our three days tracking in Sun just micing and getting tones down before we even pressed record. When we did record we did a majority of it live to try and get that feel into it. I wont even mention the mixing process, painful is not the word!

Im not saying we are the best band with the best songs or anything remotely like it, but we did put the effort in, and a lot of the criticism of Irish recordings is directed at engineers, id aim it directly at the bands for not putting the time/effort/money in.


One of my favourite recordings this year is defintely the cast of cheers album, recorded by MicK Richards, he couldnt have done a better job in my opinion.

novarock

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Of course you are, you idiot!

Im with Damagedtrax on this one, if I wanted to hear someone singing about kites, id watch more childrens TV.

DamagedTrax

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Of course you are, you idiot!

frank black owns your soul you badly drawn twat

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

frank black owns your soul you badly drawn twat

Did I mention I worked with Frank Black once too ?

NovaRock makes some good points.

There's no reason (apart from indecision perhaps) why mixing should be painful though .... explain Nova ?

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

subjective

a few days ago i spoke to someone who doesnt like the pixies..

i personally cant stand the beatles.. am i wrong not to like them?

Have you anything to do with Orphan Code ?

DamagedTrax

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Have you anything to do with Orphan Code ?

nothing at all. ive only heard maybe 4/5 of their tracks. wasnt overly impressed with any of the others but "last dance" just hit me as a great tune (and very well recorded too).

novarock

Well, painful is not the right term. It just took us a while to agree on what we wanted it to sound like. Once the first track was mixed the way we and the engineer were happy with (which took a few attempts, was mastered twice!) the others fell into place.

This was mostly down to uncertainty on our part..

DamagedTrax

novarock wrote: »

Well, painful is not the right term. It just took us a while to agree on what we wanted it to sound like. Once the first track was mixed the way we and the engineer were happy with (which took a few attempts, was mastered twice!) the others fell into place.

This was mostly down to uncertainty on our part..

exactly. translating a bands vision can be a slow process. i mean how do you make a guitar sound more "red" or how do you make a vocalist sound like "insert name" when they've a differant style voice?

it can take time to decipher a musicians descriptions.

MilanPan!c

DamagedTrax wrote: »

frank black owns your soul you badly drawn twat

Have you seen the man recently? He's been eating a lot more than souls.

MilanPan!c

novarock wrote: »

The thread title says recordings, not songs. Me personally (not an engineer, a lot of interest in it, and a good bit of studio experience) - I think that the orphan code recordings were/are excellent, and having seen them live, they reflect the sound of the band excellently.

I think the way music is recorded in Ireland has changed in the ten years that I have been in bands. There is far too much emphasis on post production - which I am not a fan of, and also, a lot of the bands in dublin are not willing to spend any money on decent recording time.

From my point of view, my own band spent a lot of time pre-recording getting everything sorted, demoing the tracks ourselves, figuring out the in's and out's, nailing down any electronic/sequence additions to the tracks, all to ensure that we achieved a sound that WE were satisified with.. We spent one of our three days tracking in Sun just micing and getting tones down before we even pressed record. When we did record we did a majority of it live to try and get that feel into it. I wont even mention the mixing process, painful is not the word!

Im not saying we are the best band with the best songs or anything remotely like it, but we did put the effort in, and a lot of the criticism of Irish recordings is directed at engineers, id aim it directly at the bands for not putting the time/effort/money in.


One of my favourite recordings this year is defintely the cast of cheers album, recorded by MicK Richards, he couldnt have done a better job in my opinion.

You know, I almost completely agree with this.

This time around I decided to sort out the bands SOUND, before even having a "band".

In my experience, bands/artists don't even begin to sound like themselves until after they record... that defines their sound, in some cases a lot more than the songs...

So I decided to define the sound, as best as I could in my own studio (Hum Studio) and THEN find the players.... it's been a lot more successful than any other approach I've taken.... but maybe I've been lucky/I have finally found a awesome singer/I'm a better writer now.

Anyway, yes know your sound before you let someone else get involved...

If you don't it'll turn into mariah carey harmonies and keyboard solos in post production.

DamagedTrax

MilanPan!c wrote: »

If you don't it'll turn into mariah carey harmonies and keyboard solos in post production.

was that a subtle hint? :D:D:D

MilanPan!c

DamagedTrax wrote: »

was that a subtle hint? :D:D:D

what?!?!?

oh no no no!

krd

jtsuited wrote: »

I think Paul raises a good point here. It's like the promise of technology and the prospects of the democratization of technology have disappointed us greatly.
Everyone being able to make music without the financial burden of proper studio time has really just led to an insurmountable amount of mediocre bands with badly recorded nothing songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQQEmCPgxHY

The mediocre bands have always been around. I think it's really mediocre people. Most of my favourite, in fact possibly all of my favourite, musicians have always been outrageous weirdos. When mediocrities open their mouths to sing out comes blandness. Ireland's great for producing mediocre people - everyone walks around suspiciously eyeing each other up, with this 'are you some kind of weirdo' look. You're not allowed be a little odd - you're allowed pretend, as long as you give the wink to let people know.

When Sinead O Connor played Troy on her acoustic guitar - no one was left thinking whether she had any nice cardigan patterns she might share.

I think the technology is being grossly abused. It give everything a very professional sounding sheen. But it's only masking blandness.

The measure of a good song is really, does it still sound good when it's recorded and played really badly.

A good song will carry through by itself. You'll notice that Tina Turner's 'What's love got to do' stills sounds great when played back on a corroded 20 year old, fifth generation copy C60.

The songs are lacking hooks and grooves.

As for the production. Everything is sounding too even. I'm thinking of
orphan code. No one has really gone to the bother of sitting down with the technology and make the bass player and drummer sound like their doing anything. They've layered 50 guitars on - but no one's given much consideration to make the rhythm section sound like they have a rhythm. Instead they've got aimless guitar mush.

I've been listening a bit recently to REM's Radio Free Europe. Great song. But loads of simplicity - and loads of very simple embellishments (the odd piano key here and there - little noises) - the vocals and guitar were deliberately recorded poorly to make it sound more authentic and real.

Radio Free Europe - great song. No one can make out more than 3 words of the lyrics.

Radio Free Europe can be played on a Kazoo and still sound ....memorable.

It's the same with a Christy Moore song - it just breaths, no matter how much jam or fluff has got into the tape.

Orphan should have been just allowed track that song with a bass, drums, guitar with no effects pedal, and if it didn't work then - they should have gone back to the drawing board.

No **** that - Orphan should have been forced to demo it by Kazoo orchestra.

SeanHurley

I really like the sound of Halves' stuff, both musically and sonically (http://www.myspace.com/ahomeforhalves)

I also think The Minutes have grown into a fine band, their new recordings are quite garagy sounding but they to capture their essence which to me is the mark of a good recording.

There are a few Irish records I like that probably aren't pushing the boundary musically, I think it was said in another post Ollie Cole's album last year sounds quite nice, Gemma Hayes' records always sound great.

A band I reckon are one to watch are We Cut Corners, I have seen them live a few times it is just a guitar player and drummer but they have raised hairs on the back of my neck - which is something for a cynical struggling musician like myself

And another thing saying you like music but dont like The Beatles is like saying "Ah yeah I like English, except for all the words like". The Beatles invented music, everything before them was just tuning up

DamagedTrax

SeanHurley wrote: »

And another thing saying you like music but dont like The Beatles is like saying "Ah yeah I like English, except for all the words like". The Beatles invented music, everything before them was just tuning up

for a musician thats pretty closed minded! musicians above all should recognise how one mans gold is another mans sh*t.

i like a lot of rockabilly/soul/ska and some of that pre-dates the beatles by a long shot.. but its "only tuning up" yeah?

if you like the beatles then fair play but in my world they're bland, unintersting pedestrian music (except for abbey road, i do recognise that as a masterpiece.. long live ringo & LSD )

and there are a lot more languages out there besides english. most common does not equal greatest in my book.

SeanHurley

DamagedTrax wrote: »

for a musician thats pretty closed minded! musicians above all should recognise how one mans gold is another mans sh*t.

i like a lot of rockabilly/soul/ska and some of that pre-dates the beatles by a long shot.. but its "only tuning up" yeah?

if you like the beatles then fair play but in my world they're bland, unintersting pedestrian music (except for abbey road, i do recognise that as a masterpiece.. long live ringo & LSD )

and there are a lot more languages out there besides english. most common does not equal greatest in my book.

I was jesting. I do believe The Beatles to be a great band if not the finest band the world has ever seen, but that is my opinion. Your opinion is equally valid even if it is wrong :D

And I never said English was the greatest :eek: Anyroad no offence meant dude.



Peace and love.

Aridstarling

The amount of sweeping generalisations in this thread is staggering. And all ye educated men...

I don't think you can fairly criticise Lisa Hannigan like that. If she had been from London chances are you'd be fawning over it.

There are loads of bands making great sounding records in Ireland, always have been really. To say theres a huge problem with Irish music in such general terms is demeaning and narrow minded. For evidence listen to Adebisi Shank, The Cast of Cheers, The Redneck Manifesto, Halves, Katie Kim, Logik Party, Enemies, Adrian Crowley, Valerie Francis, Catscars, Hunter-Gatherer, Jape, R.S.A.G., Super Extra Bonus Party, The Ambience Affair or Twin Kranes. They've all released great sounding records in the last two or three years. Pretty much all self-funded.

There is no shortage of talent in either song-writing or recording and certainly no problem with mediocrity.

DamagedTrax

SeanHurley wrote: »

I was jesting. I do believe The Beatles to be a great band if not the finest band the world has ever seen, but that is my opinion. Your opinion is equally valid even if it is wrong :D

And I never said English was the greatest :eek: Anyroad no offence meant dude.



Peace and love.

no offence taken at all dude... i thought my jest came across in my post?!?!

i KNOW the beatles are ****e.. any claims otherwise dont offend me, they just confirm my suspicians of the claiments stupidity... like milanpan!c :pac::pac::pac:

DamagedTrax

Aridstarling wrote: »

The amount of sweeping generalisations in this thread is staggering. And all ye educated men...

I don't think you can fairly criticise Lisa Hannigan like that. If she had been from London chances are you'd be fawning over it.

There are loads of bands making great sounding records in Ireland, always have been really. To say theres a huge problem with Irish music in such general terms is demeaning and narrow minded. For evidence listen to Adebisi Shank, The Cast of Cheers, The Redneck Manifesto, Halves, Katie Kim, Logik Party, Enemies, Adrian Crowley, Valerie Francis, Catscars, Hunter-Gatherer, Jape, R.S.A.G., Super Extra Bonus Party, The Ambience Affair or Twin Kranes. They've all released great sounding records in the last two or three years. Pretty much all self-funded.

There is no shortage of talent in either song-writing or recording and certainly no problem with mediocrity.

couldnt agree more.

TelePaul

Aridstarling wrote: »

There are loads of bands making great sounding records in Ireland, always have been really. To say theres a huge problem with Irish music in such general terms is demeaning and narrow minded. For evidence listen to Adebisi Shank, The Cast of Cheers, The Redneck Manifesto, Halves, Katie Kim, Logik Party, Enemies, Adrian Crowley, Valerie Francis, Catscars, Hunter-Gatherer, Jape, R.S.A.G., Super Extra Bonus Party, The Ambience Affair or Twin Kranes. They've all released great sounding records in the last two or three years. Pretty much all self-funded.

I havn't heard of any of these bands, ergo, they suck.

MilanPan!c

TelePaul wrote: »

I havn't heard of any of these bands, ergo, they suck.

I've heard of almost all of them, ergo, you're out of touch.












Seriously though, SEBP put out a great record, if you take out all the rap tracks, and the new Ambience Affair stuff is fantastically recorded... I actually sent yer man a mail a while back congratulating them on the quality of the recordings... (Now if only he'd shave his head...they'd be HUGE!)

TelePaul

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I've heard of almost all of them, ergo, you're out of touch.

Well I've heard of the Beatles. And the Stones. And Bowie. They sold millions of records. And they did this because they're great artists. It's very easy to say that labels aren't willing to take risks, but the reality is that alot of the acts listed as self-financed just weren't 'good' enough to make the grade, label wise. Not like the Beatles or the Stones. Or Bowie.

krd

TelePaul wrote: »

I havn't heard of any of these bands, ergo, they suck.

TelePaul, I've heard of some of them. But it isn't really like any of them has had a killer hit. Nothing like the Stunning, who had sweaty rural discotheque going wild to Brewing up a storm for over a decade.

Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant

No logic, pro tools or Ableton when those boys were doing it. All recorded into a tape player with a single mike in a milking parlour, in a single take, somewhere in Tuam. That's how they got the reverb - it's a milking parlour.

TelePaul

krd wrote: »

TelePaul, I've heard of some of them. But it isn't really like any of them has had a killer hit. Nothing like the Stunning, who had sweaty rural discotheque going wild to Brewing up a storm for over a decade.

Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant Dant dan na nant dan dah na nant

No logic, pro tools or Ableton when those boys were doing it. All recorded into a tape player with a single mike in a milking parlour, in a single take, somewhere in Tuam. That's how they got the reverb - it's a milking parlour.

You need to post more man! We're on the same wave-length (albeit in perfect phase!). Stunning had a rake of quality tunes - Romeo's On Fire, Heads, Mr Ginger...

You raise an interesting point too regarding 'hits'. I think certain Irish acts have so fully embraced this comparatively new indie scene that they'd rather shun any would-be hit purely because it might appeal to the masses (heaven forbid!).

MilanPan!c

TelePaul wrote: »

Well I've heard of the Beatles. And the Stones. And Bowie. They sold millions of records. And they did this because they're great artists. It's very easy to say that labels aren't willing to take risks, but the reality is that alot of the acts listed as self-financed just weren't 'good' enough to make the grade, label wise. Not like the Beatles or the Stones. Or Bowie.

I think that's two different arguments.

There's TONS of artists that sells millions of records that I haven't really listened to, and tons that are worth listening to that hardly anyone has heard.

The industry isn't that clever after all.

I know what you mean in one sense, most artists will never attain the creative and popular height of the greats, but that's not really surprising is it?

And for the record, The Stones put out MUCH MUCH more crap than good material. I mean, 10/1 ratio, at least.

TelePaul

MilanPan!c wrote: »

And for the record, The Stones put out MUCH MUCH more crap than good material. I mean, 10/1 ratio, at least.

Yet they've out-sold "Dart Station Loneliness" (or whoever) by a factor of several-hundred thousand. Let's turn that around - even the Rolling Stones' worst material has outsold (and, let's be honest, will always outsell) the best indie offerings by the truck-load. That doesn't inspire me with much confidence in the alt scene.

TelePaul

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I know what you mean in one sense, most artists will never attain the creative and popular height of the greats, but that's not really surprising is it?

I find it very surprising.

MilanPan!c

TelePaul wrote: »

Yet they've out-sold "Dart Station Loneliness" (or whoever) by a factor of several-hundred thousand. Let's turn that around - even the Rolling Stones' worst material has outsold (and, let's be honest, will always outsell) the best indie offerings by the truck-load. That doesn't inspire me with much confidence in the alt scene.

Could you explain what you mean by this?

If you mean that trying to "make it" without a proper label is at best astonishingly daunting, if not essentially impossible, then we agree.

If your point is that selling more = better then we don't agree.

I'm pretty sure that's not your point though.



Personally, we've already told some small labels that we aren't interested, for this very reason... I mean, small, even med sized labels, can serve a huge purpose in the industry, but until we develop our value, there's NO point... it'd just be a shady bank loan

MilanPan!c

TelePaul wrote: »

I find it very surprising.

really?