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Help finding my grandfathers family

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  • 15-06-2010 8:45pm
    #1
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭


    Hello, new to this but decided to try and do a family tree.

    i have the dates of birth and names of my grandfather and his 3 siblings but they don't appear as a family unit in the 1901 census even though the youngest member of the family would have only been 15 at the time.

    They were all born in Cork but I wonder at some stage did the family move to England. I do know that my grandfather died in London in approx 1962 and that he got married in Cork in 1934 (I have a copy of the marriage cert) - its the rest of the siblings that I am interested in.

    Im just wondering is there anywhere else I can search to try and locate them?

    Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me.... Kilsmum:)


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    #2
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    Have you found them in the 1911 census?

    Some church records for Cork are due online tomorrow on www.irishgenealogy.ie

    If they were from North or East Cork then try www.irish-roots.ie

    Also the civil index to Irish births, death & marriages is on the pilot search facility on www.familysearch.org. If you find a match you can order the cert from the GRO in Roscommon www.groireland.ie


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    #3
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    Thanks Wyldwood - I know about the launch tomorrow of the church records on irishgenealogy.ie - so I'm very hopeful that the records will give me some more information.

    The family are from the city but I will certainly try irish-roots.ie.

    I did have a look at www.familysearch.org but cant seem to find anything conclusive.

    I looked in the 1911 census but no joy there either.

    Thanks very much for your help - I appreciate it - Kismum:)


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    #4
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    kilsmum wrote: »
    Im just wondering is there anywhere else I can search to try and locate them?

    You can post their names and approx: DoBs here and I can see if I can find any death records in the UK.


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    #5
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    Ellen Hegarty - born 31.03.1879

    Patrick Hegarty - born 27.04.1880

    Denis Hegarty - born 30.08.1882 - died 1961/2 (my grandfather)

    Daniel Hegarty - born 18.11.1886

    Their mothers name was Catherine and their fathers name was Michael.


    Thanks very much for offering to have a look for me....

    Kilsmum


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    #6
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Cheers. Your grandfather died in Lambeth, Greater London in 1962. No matches for the other siblings.


    There are 3 Daniel Hegartys getting married in Cork in 1904 and one in Fermoy in 1911.
    There are 2 Patrick Hegartys getting married in Cork between 1903 and 1911.


    > but they don't appear as a family unit in the 1901 census even though the youngest member of the family would have only been 15 at the time.

    Does that mean that you found them but not all living together ?


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    #7
    Alicat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,264 ✭✭✭✭Alicat


    Hmmm, I found this one which could be a possibility...

    Just a 40 year old Kate and 14 year old Daniel.


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    #8
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Alicat wrote: »
    Hmmm, I found this one which could be a possibility...

    Just a 40 year old Kate and 14 year old Daniel.

    Saw that too. It could make sense that the others were all off working and the youngest (the only under 18) was at home with mum...


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    #9
    Alicat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,264 ✭✭✭✭Alicat


    Yeah, it also says Kate is 'married' not 'widowed' which means that Michael is probably still out there working


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    #10
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    Thanks Ponster and Alicat,

    I wasn't sure about the year my grandfather died - thanks for confirming 1962 Ponster.

    The only thing I know is that they were christened in St. Marys and St. Annes R.C. church in Cork. If they moved to the UK do you think I would find records of marriage, death etc. and would it be sent back to Cork?

    Ponster - Maybe they were not a family unit by the time the 1901 census came around. It certainly makes it harder to track them down.

    Alicat - I do know that Catherine and Michael were married on the 16th February 1878 what you found could possibly be just the mother and the youngest son.

    Thanks for all your help and suggestions - I really appreciate it - Kilsmum:)


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    #11
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    Alicat wrote: »
    Yeah, it also says Kate is 'married' not 'widowed' which means that Michael is probably still out there working

    I noticed that as well - maybe Michael moved to England to work


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    #12
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    kilsmum wrote: »
    The only thing I know is that they were christened in St. Marys and St. Annes R.C. church in Cork. If they moved to the UK do you think I would find records of marriage, death etc. and would it be sent back to Cork?

    BMD records are pretty easy to obtain in the UK and don't cost very much. The hard part is ordering the correct ones and your families names are pretty common so not knowing where in the UK would make life difficult. Nothing 'official' would be sent back to Cork though I *think* that back then the local PP would have been informed of the marriage and would have marked the church birth register with a '*' to note this. I really can't say is this was universal practice or not though.

    kilsmum wrote: »
    Alicat - I do know that Catherine and Michael were married on the 16th February 1878 what you found could possibly be just the mother and the youngest son.

    Well in the census, that Kate was born in 1861. With a little bit of luck on their marriage cert it'll say that she was 18 when married :)

    Do you have the cert? If not it can be ordered (which would also give you Catherine's maiden name)


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    #13
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    I dont have the cert but I do know Catherine/Kates maiden name was McGrath does that help any?

    Ponster - thanks for confirming about the church records - I don't have enough information to track the 3 siblings down your right there - Its like looking for a needle in a haystack! I don't even know how you found the marriage records of the Daniel & Patrick's that you listed above!!


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    #14
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,911 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    kilsmum wrote: »
    I dont have the cert but I do know Catherine/Kates maiden name was McGrath does that help any?

    Usually the piece of information that you think is worthless is the clue that someone needs to track the right person down :)
    kilsmum wrote: »
    I don't even know how you found the marriage records of the Daniel & Patrick's that you listed above!!

    It looks like magic until someone shows you how to do it and then you realise its just got to do with taking the time to search different sites. pinkypinky, our moderator, has a useful sticky at the top of the page which will show you all the steps.

    I used the LDS site. Entered in peoples names and dates and it gives you the results. These results then give you the information you need to go and order the correct birth/marriage/certs.

    For example : This is a list of Michael Hegerty's getting married in 1878 in Cork. The very first result is the only one that ties in with your date of Feb 1878. The info it gives can then be used to order the marriage cert. Of course you're always running the risk that for some reason this it's not the correct guy.

    Name: Michael Hegarty
    Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1878
    Film Number: 101253
    Volume Number: 5
    Page Number: 164


    Now the next step is the bit that most people I know don't bother doing before ordering but almost has to be done (IMHO).

    I did the same check on the same site for Catherine McGrath and I didn't get any results. I dropped the "McGrath" and got 7 pages of results. Going through them all I noticed a "Catherine M'Craith" which sound a lot like "Catherine McGrath". When I click on her details I get :
    Name: Catherine M'Craith
    Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1878
    Film Number: 101253
    Volume Number: 5
    Page Number: 164

    which is the exact same reference as for Michael above. Now it could just mean that both people got married in Cork from Jan-March 1878 but to different people. You can't prove from this that they married each other but €20 says they did (and this bet is coming from the guy who predicted the score of the first 2 French WorldCup games and is now €300 richer) :)


    Pinky explains in his sticky how to go about ordering the cert from Dublin.


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    #15
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    Fair play to you for winning €300 on your prediction!!!

    I just found the original printed entries that my father got back in 2001 from Gro Ireland - and your spot on!!

    When I look in the printed records for the four Hegarty children births and on Michael & Catherine/Kates wedding entry (no date of birth for either party), this is what I get: McCraith, MacGrath, M Creed, McCreed, M Craith and Mac Creight!! What a variation from 5 sheets!!

    Thanks so much for getting the information on the marriage cert - I will definitely order it as soon as I can - all other help and information is very much appreciated - Kilsmum


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    #16
    bacpink
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭bacpink


    The older siblings would be out on their own working or may have left the country. have you checked Passenger Lists of the ships?


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    #17
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    No - not sure where to check for this.........


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    #18
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    There aren't any passenger lists between Ireland and the UK. For most of recorded history, we're the same country.

    You can search the 1911 and 1901 UK censuses but as someone else noted, Hegarty is a common enough surname and most people from another country usually just put down "Ireland" and nothing helpful like "Cork and my parents names are X & Y". Their censuses are not free. Do you think that these children all came back to Ireland? The familysearch website records for the Republic go up to 1958, you might get lucky with a death search for the brothers or parents, though presumably Ellen would have married and had a different surname when she died. It might also be worth checking out the Cork Examiner records for a death notice, which might give an address and mention family members.

    Pinky
    (actually a woman :) )

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #19
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    It might also be worth checking out the Cork Examiner records for a death notice, which might give an address and mention family members.

    Pinky
    (actually a woman :) )[/QUOTE]


    I didn't realise the Cork Examiner held archives going back that far tbh - I might give them a ring and find out. If I can use them I will - it would help me for both sides of the family as Im doing my mothers side as well and haven't had a whole lot of luck.

    Thanks very much for your advice it has been a great help.

    Kilsmum:):):):):)


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    #20
    kilsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭kilsmum


    Ok, Rang the Cork Examiner they don't hold the archives on file. However the City Library in the Grand Parade have archives going back to when the Examiner was first printed!!

    Rang the library and they allow you to search for 90 minutes a day on their microfiche machine. They don't charge you to search just to print off a notice.

    I will be heading in hopefully today to have a look. Will let you know how I get on. I have a death date for my great grandmother but there are differing stories as to where she is buried so a look should sort it for me.

    Thanks again for all your sound advice.

    Kilsmum:D:D:D:D


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