Man dies by firing squad in US

ScumLord · 18-06-2010 03:21PM

Overheal wrote: »

Which is funny when you read over how often people in AH wan't Ireland's convicted criminals castrated and maimed for their crimes :rolleyes:

Im not saying I agree with death by firing squad, but you haven't a very high pony.
Im going to want to run that by Manic Moran, but I am fairly sure that is not how the Military works; had they been Army, they would have been Volunteer. Of course it could have also been anybody from the prison system, etc.

You can't compare what people say in after hours to the actuality of the death penalty in America. We may talk the talk but we certainly don't walk the walk. My horse just grew another foot.

All I was saying was that this human killing argument won't fly in America, the convict having a nice death is right down at the bottom of the list (in the small print) because they're talking about killing horrible people.

Overheal · 18-06-2010 03:28PM

Well either way this case was sort of one of those Last Time things because of non-retroactive laws... theres a word for retroactive laws... Anyway, I am pretty sure trying to apply a law retroactively is unconstitutional.

edit: Ex Post Facto Law (United States)

In the United States, the federal government is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 3 of Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and the states are prohibited from the same by clause 1 of Article I, section 10. This is one of the very few restrictions that the United States Constitution made to both the power of the federal and state governments prior to the Fourteenth Amendment. Over the years, when deciding ex post facto cases, the United States Supreme Court has referred repeatedly to its ruling in the Calder v. Bull, 3 U.S. 386 (1798), in which Justice Samuel Chase established four categories of unconstitutional ex post facto laws. The case dealt with Article I, section 10, since it dealt with a Connecticut state law.

Seaneh · 18-06-2010 03:30PM

ScumLord wrote: »

My horse just grew another foot.

Horses don't have feet and they aren't measured in feet either.

Killer Pigeon · 18-06-2010 03:34PM

Hmmmm, I wonder if they sent a bill with the price of the bullets to the family.

Dyr · 18-06-2010 03:48PM

Instead of giving one shooter a blank round they should give him a gun that will fire out a flag with "BANG!" written on it. Lighten the mood a bit.

magicface1 · 18-06-2010 03:49PM

Bambi wrote: »

Instead of giving one shooter a blank round they should give him a gun that will fire out a flag with "BANG!" written on it. Lighten the mood a bit.

that would of been very funny....

Overheal · 18-06-2010 03:49PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Horses don't have feet and they aren't measured in feet either.

WHY WASNT YOUR HORSE METRIC!?

Manic Moran · 18-06-2010 06:53PM

Blanks have absolutely miniscule recoil (no projectile, Newton's got this mofo covered) so if you have a blank in it, you'll know. As a salve for anyone's conscience, it's not in the game.

Rifle is modified especially to give a recoil effect. I am unsure as to how in the case of Utah's rifles, but I can think of a couple of ways of doing it.

Nice thing about firing squad is it's about the only method that organs can be donated afterwards.

Im going to want to run that by Manic Moran, but I am fairly sure that is not how the Military works; had they been Army, they would have been Volunteer. Of course it could have also been anybody from the prison system, etc.

If military, it would have been Utah Guard. Federal Army troops are legally prohibited from law enforcement functions. However, there would be no shortage of volunteers from the prison system or police force. I strongly doubt anyone was ordered to pull a trigger against his will.

NTM

Wibbs · 18-06-2010 08:21PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Nice thing about firing squad is it's about the only method that organs can be donated afterwards.

Hanging(though I dunno about the corneas), beheading and oxygen starvation would work too I reckon.

Cookie_Monster · 18-06-2010 08:45PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Nice thing about firing squad is it's about the only method that organs can be donated afterwards.

I rather have organs not riddled with bullet holes thanks

Clawdeeus · 18-06-2010 09:07PM

Oink wrote: »

I've often heard that one about capital punishment in the states: They don't simply want justice, they want revenge. Don't get me wrong, I would too if I was a relative of the victim. But you'd think the institutions would be above that.

Revenge and justice dont necessarily have to be so far apart; Im sure the family of a murder victim feel it is justice. Im sure the family of a muder/rape victim feel its less than justice.

I wonder how many people are pro-death penalty in this country?

I myself would think it should be kept for the most god awful crimes, it dosnt really gell with me that say Ted Bundy gets the same punishment as some guy who shot 5 gang members in a gang war.

The ultimate punishment should be reserved for those beyond the pale, if I remember correctly there was that guy who held women in a cargo container in his garden for 3+ days, raping and torturing them on camera, before mudering them. Lethal injection just seems ok after that.

Clawdeeus · 18-06-2010 09:28PM

Also, anyone know where they aim for?

Manic Moran · 18-06-2010 09:31PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Hanging(though I dunno about the corneas), beheading and oxygen starvation would work too I reckon.

Fair point.

NTM

arybvtcw0eolkf · 18-06-2010 09:37PM

Clawdeeus wrote: »

Also, anyone know where they aim for?

The aim is to kill the convicted person.

Giselle · 18-06-2010 09:45PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why does execution have to be humane?

Because if the State were going to kill people on behalf of the voters, most people would like to think that they're slightly better than some street thug who inflicts pain for kicks. It eases their conscience.

And because when it comes to light that an innocent person has been killed on behalf of the voters (it happens), that they didn't make the poor soul suffer even more for something they didn't do.

Capital punishment is inhumane by definition imo.

My name is URL · 18-06-2010 09:58PM

It doesn't act as a deterrent. Crime is not lower in the countries where it exists. And most of the people who carry out the crimes which would be considered worthy of the death penalty are not thinking rationally when they do it, so even if it was meant as a deterrent it wouldn't work. It's a way to make people feel safer in a society where heinous crimes take place, but it changes nothing.

Manic Moran · 18-06-2010 10:24PM

And most of the people who carry out the crimes which would be considered worthy of the death penalty are not thinking rationally when they do it

In this case, utter codswallop.

There was no 'not thinking rationally' in what he did.

He's going to court. He arranges with a friend to have a firearm staged in an accessible place. He obtains said firearm, shoots one person dead, seriously wounds another in the course of an escape attempt.

He knew full well what he was up to.

There are many degrees of murder in the US, varying from 'heat of the moment' (You find your wife in bed with another man and shoot him) through pre-meditated torture and execution. The death sentence is generally reserved for those who, in the eyes of the jury, have gone beyond life in prison.

Gardner was in court for the murder of a bartender when was trying to rob a bar. That was a botched robbery, he didn't go in with the intent to kill, even if he was thinking rationally. He was not up for the death penalty at the time, he was done for Second Degree murder. This guy was fully aware of what he was up to in the courthouse, and there is no chance of this being an innocent man executed, so the main argument against the death penalty doesn't apply.

I have no qualms with this individual's sentence.

NTM

My name is URL · 18-06-2010 10:29PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

There was no 'not thinking rationally' in what he did.

He's going to court. He arranges with a friend to have a firearm staged in an accessible place. He obtains said firearm, shoots one person dead, seriously wounds another in the course of an escape attempt.

Doesn't sound like rational thinking to me.. he may be callous and calculated but a rational person wouldn't have done it & imo, it won't stop further irrational people from carrying out similar acts.

Lando Griffin · 18-06-2010 11:35PM

I think and Im just putting it out there that anyone on death row could be drafted into the US ARMY and used in the first line of defence against the evil doers in Afganistan or Iraq and send them into insurgant villages shooting anyone they suspect as being insurgants if they get killed so be it if they dont there is always another village . Not only are you freeing up places on death row but you are saving the lives of soldiers who night otherwise be put at risk. Kind of a chain gang but more like a bang gang.

Manic Moran · 18-06-2010 11:45PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Doesn't sound like rational thinking to me.. he may be callous and calculated but a rational person wouldn't have done it & imo, it won't stop further irrational people from carrying out similar acts.

If he thought he could get away with it, what's irrational about deciding to make a break for freedom and the Mexican border as opposed to spending the next twenty years behind bars?

Escape attempts occasionally do work out, after all.

NTM

My name is URL · 18-06-2010 11:58PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

If he thought he could get away with it, what's irrational about deciding to make a break for freedom and the Mexican border as opposed to spending the next twenty years behind bars?

Escape attempts occasionally do work out, after all.

NTM

Surely you don't think that trying to shoot your way out of court and into Mexico is rational?!

I'm not trying to get into the semantics of that particular case.. it was obviously horrible and unforeseen.
I'm just trying to show why the death penalty is of little use, other than to instill a false sense of conclusion for the public in what are terrifying acts

goat2 · 19-06-2010 12:04AM

how long did this nasty person spend in prison, being fed , clothed, and taking up a prison cell, he should have been executed long time ago, he took two lives, did not deserve to live at taxpayers expense

My name is URL · 19-06-2010 12:09AM

goat2 wrote: »

how long did this nasty person spend in prison, being fed , clothed, and taking up a prison cell, he should have been executed long time ago, he took two lives, did not deserve to live at taxpayers expense

A 2003 legislative audit found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000)

from - http://www.kslegislature.org/postaudit/audits_perform/04pa03a.pdf

So if it costs the tax payer 70% less to keep him alive, is it still worth killing him?

AgileMyth · 19-06-2010 12:11AM

NothingMan wrote: »

I think in some states you choose the manner of your execution. I doubt a court ordered death by firing squad. If it was me i'd have to go with the oul injection. Imagine only taking a stomach wound on the first volley. Not a nice way to go.

I'd imagine the marksmen are a bit more talented than that

Manic Moran · 19-06-2010 12:18AM

Surely you don't think that trying to shoot your way out of court and into Mexico is rational?!

And choosing to live much of, if not all, of the rest of your life in a 6x3m cell is supposed to be the rational choice?

Robbing the bar, shooting your way out of a courthouse, those were all rational decisions. They were the wrong decisions, socially, morally, and, since he got caught, for his life too. But they were made after rational thought.

NTM

Magaa · 19-06-2010 12:27AM

antodeco wrote: »

Being honest, id prefer to be put in an unsed industrial estate with guns with blanks. Id run around the place pretending im some awesome killer. The "baddies" are the Guards with real bullets. THATS how I want to go if I get to choose!

thats such a good idea.

ScumLord · 19-06-2010 01:07AM

My name is URL wrote: »

Surely you don't think that trying to shoot your way out of court and into Mexico is rational?!

It would be to an American, I believe it's the American dream plan B.

Mal-Adjusted · 19-06-2010 01:34AM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Could you choose to be sexually intercoursed to death by quality street hookers?

ah, the old "death by snoo-snoo!"

Clawdeeus · 19-06-2010 05:23AM

My name is URL wrote: »

Doesn't sound like rational thinking to me.. he may be callous and calculated but a rational person wouldn't have done it & imo, it won't stop further irrational people from carrying out similar acts.

Your confusing rational and clever.

filthymcnasty · 19-06-2010 06:06AM

My name is URL wrote: »

Surely you don't think that trying to shoot your way out of court and into Mexico is rational?!

I'm not trying to get into the semantics of that particular case.. it was obviously horrible and unforeseen.
I'm just trying to show why the death penalty is of little use, other than to instill a false sense of conclusion for the public in what are terrifying acts

I don't agree. If one my kin or friends was murdered/raped etc I would rather the US method that they languish in solitary for 20 years and are then executed, the method is not important to me.
Every day they spend in death row is torture for them. That's proper punishment for me and what people like this deserve. I would rather this end than irish/ european bull**** where life for murder is 9 years in castlerea ordering in chinese or whatever- now thats a false sense of conclusion.

Man dies by firing squad in US

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