Imagine launch Midband Ripwave Replacement - WiMAX

deravarra · 15-06-2010 11:47PM

fcrossen wrote: »

See http://www.seeit.org/2010/05/25/imagine-wi-max-one-week-on/

Scroll down to "Follow up 2010-06-15: Three weeks on" for the latest data.

In short I'm pretty happy with it - I've got shot of Magnet and Eircom so that is a resounding RESULT for me!

Let's hope the naysayers who kept calling it "crap" come back and apologise

16-06-2010 12:08AM

deravarra wrote: »

Let's hope the naysayers who kept calling it "crap" come back and apologise

both nay and yay sayers have valid points so dont be getting cranky again and keep it to point instead of the last spat and its mad tangents :P

so tell me - is it consistanty good and could you throw up a few seedtests and port tests up over a period of a few days so we can see how it is performing please

wimax isnt available in my area yet and ive heard the best and worst about it

so some facts wouldnt go a miss

thebman · 16-06-2010 12:23AM

Its problem is that it is inconsistent not good or bad.

Every now and again the network throws a complete canary and starts diconnecting me from Steam PSN or any other similar services.

Oh and their are blocking torrents or incompetent if they say they aren't blocking torrents. Leave it up to them.

fcrossen · 16-06-2010 08:59AM

warlikedave wrote: »

so tell me - is it consistanty good and could you throw up a few seedtests and port tests up over a period of a few days so we can see how it is performing please

These were done while I was listening to RTE 1 streaming and my wife was browsing some image heavy flash site:

I'll pop some more up as I think if them.

watty · 16-06-2010 10:27AM

It's essentially a Mobile/Nomadic system. Your results could be terrible in 2 months time and nothing you can do about it. What you want is for there to be no additional customers on your mast

If the Service looks good and Imagine are successful selling it, then it will be poor as their spectrum is limited.

Sponge Bob · 16-06-2010 10:30AM

watty wrote: »

If the Service looks good and Imagine are successful selling it, then it will be poor as their spectrum is limited.

But not as limited as 3g , in fact they have loads of spectrum compared to 3g but it is really crap spectrum for getting into buildings.

thebman · 16-06-2010 02:00PM

Yes I've not experienced any really poor speeds for any prolonged period of time.

When I do have speed issues, it tends to be related to it dropping steam connection and weird ping spikes.

The speedtests are usually still fine though, I think it actually goes through periods of having massive packet loss as in TF2 you will fire a rocket and it just ignores your mouse click or you suddenly appear 10 feet behind where you were just a moment ago even though your running forward.

Sometimes these can be server issues but as I play on 4 different clan servers and each of them have multiple servers and the clan I'm in servers have no custom crap on them are running valve stock servers and maps.

watty · 16-06-2010 02:10PM

3G operators have 15MHz + 15Mhz, and most also have an unused 5MHz unpaired.
so 120MHz of spectrum in use (Excluding unpaired).
There are 1000s of cells

Locations & Channels that Imagine have (Listed as IBB)
http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/fwala_search.541.960.fwalasearch.html

Very much fewer masts

Spectrum overview
http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/WiMax_Forum__12_May_09.pdf

Yes there is a huge lot more at 3.5GHz than 3G's 2.1GHz, but it's poorly utilised in 20km circles mostly, only eircom has national licence

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/search.541.874.10010.10001.rslicensing.html

See http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0617R6.pdf

In Limerick, two of Imagine's 4 licences are 14MHz allocations (14MHz x 2 FDD)
attachment.php?attachmentid=117133&stc=1&d=1276693695

attachment.php?attachmentid=117133&stc=1&d=1276693695

Because of the nature of the mast sites, channel allocations and cell sizes, Imagine's capacity is much lower than any 3G operator. They would need to buy a lot more licences. Unless Comreg's licence viewer is out of date?

Ripwave and other "Nomadic" technology should not be allowed above 2.6GHz. Imagine should have gone for Fixed only installs of the WiMax replacement. The "Nomadic/Mobile" system and existing dongles of WiMax wastes up to x16 capacity compared to outdoor only "Breeze" or other Fixed Wimax. However the "self install" Indoor system saves them over 200 Euro to 400 Euro per customer and Comreg has no sensible limits on performance of "Broadband" nor auditing of them.

A waste of €50M maybe building substandard network instead of real Fixed Wireless Broadband to have a quicker revenue return and hang the performance 2 years down the road.

watty · 16-06-2010 02:18PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

But not as limited as 3g , in fact they have loads of spectrum compared to 3g but it is really crap spectrum for getting into buildings.

I agree, it should be x40 better than 3G. But in reality isn't really much better, if at all.

16-06-2010 03:49PM

fcrossen wrote: »

These were done while I was listening to RTE 1 streaming and my wife was browsing some image heavy flash site:

I'll pop some more up as I think if them.

The test shows that you couldnt test packet loss at all?? is that a regular occurance - latency is on par with a 3g product and the speed is 1.5 mb better on average...

cheers - can you post up a couple more during the day - peak time and off peak time please

fcrossen · 16-06-2010 04:07PM

warlikedave wrote: »

The test shows that you couldnt test packet loss at all?? is that a regular occurance - latency is on par with a 3g product and the speed is 1.5 mb better on average...

cheers - can you post up a couple more during the day - peak time and off peak time please

I ran the test off my Ubuntu lappie and the speed test applet apparently had problems with my version of java. Apparently there is a quick fix I'll try for next time.

thebman · 16-06-2010 05:11PM

warlikedave wrote: »

The test shows that you couldnt test packet loss at all?? is that a regular occurance - latency is on par with a 3g product and the speed is 1.5 mb better on average...

cheers - can you post up a couple more during the day - peak time and off peak time please

Almost always can't test packet loss. I can't remember it ever working when I've attempted.

pinging boards or any other site though and I don't get any lost packets using -t to keep it going so don't know why it doesn't work from pingtest.

16-06-2010 05:12PM

thebman wrote: »

Almost always can't test packet loss. I can't remember it ever working when I've attempted.

pinging boards or any other site though and I don't get any lost packets using -t to keep it going so don't know why it doesn't work from pingtest.

whats ur OS and browser may I ask?

watty · 16-06-2010 05:57PM

Go to menu on CMD window, select Edit Mark and drag mouse,
paste result here

(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\watty>ping www.heanet.ie -t

Pinging samhain.heanet.ie [193.1.219.57] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=60
Reply from 193.1.219.57: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=60

Ping statistics for 193.1.219.57:
    Packets: Sent = 11, Received = 11, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 15ms, Maximum = 35ms, Average = 20ms
Control-C
^C
C:\watty>

Jitter is 15ms to 35ms, but since average is 20ms Jitter is typically about 5ms but up to 10ms

This is NOT an Imagine connection!

smelly sock · 17-06-2010 12:26PM

deravarra wrote: »

Let's hope the naysayers who kept calling it "crap" come back and apologise

Are you using it yet? I'm using it and my experience has been dreadful. Do you know why they throttle torrents? Is it because their network is crap?

Sponge Bob · 17-06-2010 01:04PM

They always throttled torrents , they have a transparent proxy/bandwidth shaper for all their customers.

BigMoose · 18-06-2010 12:30PM

I dunno what Imagine/IBB are doing but my breeze connection is back to the max almost 24/7 over the last few days. Actually speed tests reported speeds a little over what I'm supposed to get which is nice. Dunno if the WiMAX folk have seen any improvements?? Although I appreciate nothing will compensate for every idiot roaming into your sector...

fcrossen · 18-06-2010 01:29PM

-bash-3.00$ ping -c20 www.heanet.ie
PING samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=0 ttl=55 time=63.4 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=57.7 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=2 ttl=55 time=61.3 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=3 ttl=55 time=55.4 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=4 ttl=55 time=60.0 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=5 ttl=55 time=69.0 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=6 ttl=55 time=58.6 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=7 ttl=55 time=52.5 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=8 ttl=55 time=57.2 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=9 ttl=55 time=56.2 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=10 ttl=55 time=55.5 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=11 ttl=55 time=49.8 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=12 ttl=55 time=50.8 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=13 ttl=55 time=44.8 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=14 ttl=55 time=49.3 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=15 ttl=55 time=63.8 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=16 ttl=55 time=52.6 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=17 ttl=55 time=62.1 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=18 ttl=55 time=46.7 ms
64 bytes from samhain.heanet.ie (193.1.219.57): icmp_seq=19 ttl=55 time=45.4 ms

--- samhain.heanet.ie ping statistics ---
20 packets transmitted, 20 received, 0% packet loss, time 19017ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 44.870/55.658/69.025/6.452 ms, pipe 2

deravarra · 18-06-2010 04:08PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Are you using it yet? I'm using it and my experience has been dreadful. Do you know why they throttle torrents? Is it because their network is crap?

I cant use it yet - it's not in Mullingar!

However, there are plenty of people around who are singing its praises - including some work colleagues. They dont seem to have a problem with it.

Have you proof "they throttle torrents"?

"Crap" is your own choice of words.

Fine and great would be what I've heard from others about their experience.

deravarra · 18-06-2010 04:23PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They always throttled torrents , they have a transparent proxy/bandwidth shaper for all their customers.

And you know this because ......?

IrishTonyO · 18-06-2010 04:24PM

deravarra wrote: »

I cant use it yet - it's not in Mullingar!

However, there are plenty of people around who are singing its praises - including some work colleagues. They dont seem to have a problem with it.

Have you proof "they throttle torrents"?

"Crap" is your own choice of words.

Fine and great would be what I've heard from others about their experience.

Anyone I know who got it have had terrible problems, and even worse speeds. I know 10 people who got it and so far 6 have got rid of it.

Cryos · 18-06-2010 04:28PM

deravarra wrote: »

I cant use it yet - it's not in Mullingar!

However, there are plenty of people around who are singing its praises - including some work colleagues. They dont seem to have a problem with it.

Have you proof "they throttle torrents"?

"Crap" is your own choice of words.

Fine and great would be what I've heard from others about their experience.

There is several thing's people have to concider and this is a constant theme throughout this thread and indeed other threads relating to WiMax, and this is around.

There are undoubtably many people who have the service and it probably works just fine for them, this is based on a number of conditions (Contention on the Cell(s), Usage and Environmental Conditions).

These conditions do contribute to unpredictable results and as such it isnt a "Fits All" implementation of the technology, it is like the argument over vdsl technology that eircom are pushing, yes its probably going to be amazing for people within 1km of exchanges but pretty useless / even more useless than ADSL in some varients.

While i do applaud what Imagine has done, i see the side that it is potential lost; If they Went Fixed WiMax as opposed to the current Nomadic/Mobile the conditions which effect the technology wouldnt be as bad and a higher quality of service(s) could be distributed.

In context what imagine have done is great, but in area's there is clear issues of capacity (Marketing 1 - Infrastructure Engineers 0), this issues may spread over time to other parts of the imagine service if not maintained and planned correctly.

watty · 18-06-2010 09:49PM

Yes, they have exchanged low install cost for upto x16 poorer capacity and erratic service compared to true Fixed Wimax with outdoor directional aerials only.

19-06-2010 04:58PM

deravarra wrote: »

I cant use it yet - it's not in Mullingar!

However, there are plenty of people around who are singing its praises - including some work colleagues. They dont seem to have a problem with it.

Have you proof "they throttle torrents"?

"Crap" is your own choice of words.

Fine and great would be what I've heard from others about their experience.

I had it and it was useless. Speeds were slow and it was impossible to play on xbox live.

thebman · 19-06-2010 05:17PM

warlikedave wrote: »

whats ur OS and browser may I ask?

I have a laptop running 7 and desktop running 7 and netbook running XP.

PS3/Xbox360 too all experiencing drops on their ports for network service at bizarre times.

It will work for a few days then drop randomly one day for 2 hours then fine again for another 2 weeks or soemtimes it will be crap for a few days and then come back.

I don't think its contention as if it was the speeds would be crap but I can download at about 7-9Mbps when this is occurring. Random ping spikes occur too.

deravarra · 20-06-2010 09:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I had it and it was useless. Speeds were slow and it was impossible to play on xbox live.

For you maybe, but I know others who are happy with it, and they have posted here on boards.

20-06-2010 09:46PM

thebman wrote: »

I have a laptop running 7 and desktop running 7 and netbook running XP.

PS3/Xbox360 too all experiencing drops on their ports for network service at bizarre times.

It will work for a few days then drop randomly one day for 2 hours then fine again for another 2 weeks or soemtimes it will be crap for a few days and then come back.

I don't think its contention as if it was the speeds would be crap but I can download at about 7-9Mbps when this is occurring. Random ping spikes occur too.

sounds like consistancy is sadly lacking when it comes to your particular connection - if you are not happy - then return it...a always on broadband provider needs to provide a stable speed and latency which is deemed broadband spec.

if they fail to provide this then you have two options - contact comreg and try and sort it. and if that fails you could well have terms to cancel without a charge since they are not providing a proper broadband service for you...

watty · 21-06-2010 10:49AM

It's not even an Apple product! Though it starts with an "i". Certainly smacks of Fanboism rather than rational discussion.

fcrossen · 21-06-2010 11:24AM

smelly sock wrote: »

Looking back over posts I find it hard to find anyone who states having the product that they taught they were pruchasing.

You didn't read my posts then?

smelly sock wrote: »

THey block torrents altogether but they do work in the wee small hours of the morning. I like most other regret the day I ever heard of wimax.

Does anyone have evidence of this? This morning I downloaded from http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ with no problems.

Enough people saying torrents are blocked doesn't make it true, and before you say it: I have no vested interest in Imagine.

deravarra · 21-06-2010 11:28AM

smelly sock wrote: »

Still convinced you have alterior motives for defending a product you don't have or use so strongly. Vested interests perhaps.

How many times do I need to say it?

I DO NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER WORKED FOR IMAGINE, NOR ANY OF ITS PARTNERS, NOR ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS.

Are you normally a conspiracy theorist?

Imagine launch Midband Ripwave Replacement - WiMAX

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