Pulled with out of date tax/insurance

poodles wrote: »

LOL

Are you for real man?

"Don't back seat moderate"?

sorry but that comes across as very losery

a) Back seat modding is a real thing, and is banned by every Charter on boards

b) Disputing mod decisions on-thread is also banned because it derails the thread

c) Directly insulting other users (i.e. you're a loser) is also against the Charter


Take 3 days off to familiarise yourself with the charter (the link's in my sig), and post a bit more maturely when you come back.

Thanks

This isn't a legal discussion Hairy Mary, but the question of penalties is most certainly open for discussion and comment before a court may find the OP guilty of whatever charges he faces. He's in trouble and wanted to know how best to deal with it in practical terms.

So, what's your point? That someone got off before because they as a servant were ordered by their master to drive the car? Do you think that sets legal precendent that would actually apply to the OP? Do you think that'll suffice to get him off whatever charges he may face?

I hate to burst your bubble Hairy, but that's not going to cut it. The district court is where the case will be heard, judgement made and penalties applied. The OP can of course appeal it, take it to a higher court and so on where a barrister may argue his case referring to precedent (and at not inconsiderable cost), but even that's a bit thin, all things considered, isn't it? He wasn't a servant. He wasn't ordered to drive the car. He was driving the car of his own free will, on his own terms, without adequate insurance..... That's nothing like the case to which you refer.

Those are the facts. He knows it. The Gardaí know it. And the judge will know it. You might want to encourage him to pursue some form of legal defense, and he might indeed want to do so.

And if the OP's paying attention, he'll go speak with a solicitor for the legal advice bit, rather than pinning his hopes on your particularly weak suggestion of a defense.

The rest of us, your good self excluded I reckon, will give the laypersons guide based on our own experiences.

Best of luck OP, I'm done.

FeetMagicII wrote: »

Thanks very much for the advice. Just with regards the tax, is it likely that they will back-tax the car? Was trying to ring all day but no answer so I will go into the office tomorrow.

You need an insurance policy number in order to get motor tax. The insurance must be current on the first day of the tax renewal period. You may then pay motor tax arrears for the 6 months. Looks like you need to get insurance sorted first in order to get the car taxed so you can get the car released (AFAIK).

MagicMarker wrote: »

Eh, I thought all tax discs expire at the end of the month?

I think he means since the end of last month, which is also the start of this month....

Don't you mean the defenses may be there?

You've made your point, for whatever it's worth, however unlikely it is to be effective.

This is pretty black and white stuff though in all fairness. There are a number of scenarios where most folks would be prepared to accept someone inadvertently driving an uninsured vehicle, life and death stuff and even some less serious circumstances.

To put things in perspective - I'm not a keyboard warrior. I've had my own 'brush with the law' in terms of driving without insurance, albeit it ultimately without the consequences of a prosecution.

I had an accident about 10 years ago in a friends car where I had been given my own set of keys to the car, where I had supplied my license number to him on the basis of a request from the insurance company so they could add me to the policy, and it turned out in the end up that my name was never added to the insurance certificate as a named driver by the broker.

It cost me the guts of €9k, as the insurance company were instructed to pay out on the resultant claims (only for damage to third party vehicles, and thankfully no injuries) as their was a policy in effect on the vehicle and to pursue me through a civil case to recover their costs. The broker got no more than a scathing email or two from me.

The gardaí didn't prosecute me for driving without insurance as we could provide copies of the emails sent to the insurance broker with the request to add me as a driver, along with a reply from them stating they would do so. We'd made the request, and received a response indicating it would be actioned..... It was pretty clear that we'd done what would typically be required to add a driver to a policy.

The insurance company in that case were AIG, and while the broker had indicated cover would be put in place, AIG had never altered the contract/policy that was in effect, as they say they never received such a request/instruction. Without an insurance certificate with either 'open driving' or my name as a named driver, I was ultimately to pay the cost they incurred as a result of a court instruction.

The Gardaí could have prosecuted me, as in the strictest sense I wasn't insured, but the Garda I dealt with was pragmatic in his application of the law. He knew my friend and I had done what most folks would do to arrange insurance cover, and he could see himself that while I wasn't in effect insured, we'd made reasonable efforts to put the cover in place.

Ignorance is no defense or so they say, but common sense thankfully prevailed.

So, no prosecution in my case, very luckily. But it's taught me to be particularly cautious about what cars I'll drive and to ensure any policy I've had since them on my own vehicle will cover me on someone elses should I end up behind the wheel. I'd never again take it from someone that I was insured unless I checked the policy/certificate to be certain.

The above is simply to illustrate that the enforcement of the letter of the law in Ireland can sometimes be tempered with the application of some common sense, where an honest mistake has been made or a system has broken down.

Common sense in the OP's situation would have been to leave the car at home and take a taxi or a bus or whatever. Unfortunately for him he'll have to deal with the legal ramifications, but as I've said before, it's not the end of the world. Worse things can happen, and it's a lesson better learned where nobody's hurt or out of pocket.

I was advised by a solicitor and barrister at the time. Both had extensive experience in successfully representing clients for rather serious motoring offenses, in many cases getting their clients out off on technicalities on insurance, drink driving, dangerous driving charges and so on. I spoke with them specifically in relation to what obligation if any the broker would have had. The facts: No contract existed to insure me as a driver on the vehicle. The Gardaí elected not to prosecute.

I could have pursued the insurance broker, sure. But the outcome wasn't certain and I wasn't going to pump money into a legal practice to take my chances.

You make an awful lot of assumptions Hairy. Suggesting it was my own 'fault' that I had to pay only serves to reinforce my perception that you are ill informed and viewing this from the perspective of a legal practitioner alone, when such parties views will only ever be one of many relevant in a situation such as the OP's, or mine for that matter.

We could argue this and go round and round in circles. You believe the OP could get off at least the more serious charges he faces. I don't believe he would, nor would I think it a good idea for him to pay the professional fees a solicitor and barrister would levy, given the fairly cut and dried nature of his offence.

I know, I know - You disagree. So what? All I'm doing is referring to my own experience, something people are inclined to do day to day. I'm drawing contrast to put perspective into my contribution. You on the other hand have done nothing more than suggest there's a possible defense and try to rubbish any contribution that differs with that opinion. Whether professional or not, your opinion is yours to share, but I think most folks will recognize that you're seeing this from one angle only.

BTW, well done on taking this one way off topic.