Are animals more empathetic and intelligent than we think?

knird evol · 09-06-2010 07:22PM

Animals are people too, you know.

Prof.Badass · 09-06-2010 07:24PM

prinz wrote: »

Christianity based belief? Uh what?

Yes, the belief that animals do not have any awareness, that they have no real thoughts (instead they act only from instinct) and they cannot feel emotions. This was the christian teaching on animal cognition, because it shows humans and animals as being completely seperate.

While the idea itself may not be limited to christianity, it was dominant in western world because of christianity.

Mr Benevolent · 09-06-2010 08:20PM

Uh... we are animals.

Captain Darling · 09-06-2010 08:38PM

Certain parrots mourn their owners as wll dont they?

I think they actually go insane, i saw one on TV do that before. It was a bitteen sad.

peasant · 09-06-2010 08:50PM

We are the pathetic ones in that we only allow animals to possess intelligence or empathy once it is measurable by our standards.

Which dog is more intelligent ...the one that answers to every single one of your commands, or the one that just keeps on chewing on its bone and gives you the middle claw?

If we were truly intelligent and empathetic, we would recognise animal intelligence for what it is.

storm2811 · 09-06-2010 09:02PM

We had a parrot,and when my father died,the parrot died soon after

The dogs were also really sad/weird for a while after too,and when someone he didn't like came to the house,they wouldn't stop barking at them and biting at their legs,but it could all be a coincidence,I don't know.

But I do think it's kinda amazing the way they leg it when there's a storm coming,or a tsunami and things like that.

Whenever I'm locked out and have to climb in a window,the dogs try to kill me like I'm some intruder,they also attacked my brother the other 'cause he was wearing a hat,"no,NOOOO,it's just me in a hat!Ahhh!",so I'm a bit divided I suppose as to how smart they really are,unless mine are just incredibly stupid.

Captain Darling · 09-06-2010 09:05PM

I love when small dogs are in cars and you go up to the window and they start snapping and snarling through the glass like the hound of the baskerville.

When you open the door though they are as timid as lambs.

Cracks me up every time.

Bog · 09-06-2010 09:10PM

Empathic? Hmm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVE60zwXx1k

Captain Darling · 09-06-2010 09:13PM

Bog wrote: »

Empathic? Hmm...

What in the name of jaysus did you google to get that?

Columbia · 09-06-2010 09:34PM

The March 2008 National Geographic has an excellent article on this (the intelligence aspect at least).

Animals, like people, display a broad spectrum of intelligence, not just between species but also within species. Some animals not only possess a sense of self, but also a sense of other - they can and do see things from other animals' perspectives. They can learn individual faces, complete abstract tasks, possess relatively impressive vocabularies (the most intelligent dogs can understand hundreds of words, bonobos thousands), and recognise sequences. Outside of our labs and experiments, animals have often been observed using tools in the wild.

furtzy · 09-06-2010 09:40PM

Was driving up in donegal recently...came to a junction. Across the junction was a jack russell about to cross. He stopped when he seen me... I gestured to him to cross and he gave a very cool and thankful nod and crossed....very cool dog.

ascanbe · 09-06-2010 09:56PM

mariaf24 wrote: »

I adore animals,i do. Especially dogs,I love them. But sometimes when people are going on and on about how intelligent and wonderful their dogs are and the dog is looking,tail wagging,hyper eyes,panting... I can't help but think that the dog is actually,well, pretty stupid....

Nah, it's more likely that the dog's owner ain't the brightest..

That 'hero dog' in the video is the littlest hobo; you can't judge other animals by his standard.

Oh, and that Chimp/Frog video is one of the most disturbing things i've ever seen.

Bog · 09-06-2010 10:09PM

Captain Darling wrote: »

What in the name of jaysus did you google to get that?

Yes, erm, google....

*deletes bookmarks*

ArseLtd · 09-06-2010 10:30PM

Crows are fairly clever aswell. From wikipedia : "Another skill involves dropping tough nuts into a heavy trafficked street and waiting for a car to crush them open, and then waiting at pedestrian lights with other pedestrians in order to retrieve the nuts."

strobe · 09-06-2010 10:48PM

I think the problem some people make is they for some reason think along the lines of "there are animals and then there are humans".........That sentence makes no sense, humans are just another species of animal. There is nothing particuarly unique about us. Certainly nothing that would mean every other species on the planet should be put in one group and then our species of animal in a completely different group.

Of course different species of social mammals are going to be fairly empathetic. They would have gone extinct by now if they weren't.

Unique User Name · 09-06-2010 10:52PM

Based on recent events I would say perhaps foxes aren't so empathetic

strobe · 09-06-2010 10:55PM

Unique User Name wrote: »

Based on recent events I would say perhaps foxes aren't so empathetic

Meh....Humans have killed fox cubs plenty of times. They are about as empathetic towards our offspring as we are towards theirs I would say.

Nulty · 09-06-2010 10:58PM

minidazzler wrote: »

How long is string?

Some animals perhaps, but stupid question.

COP OUT

Also I was told there are no stupid questions...only stupid answers and you my friend gave a stupid answer...well, the some animals part was spot on.....but the rest

Nulty · 09-06-2010 11:06PM

mariaf24 wrote: »

I adore animals,i do. Especially dogs,I love them. But sometimes when people are going on and on about how intelligent and wonderful their dogs are and the dog is looking,tail wagging,hyper eyes,panting... I can't help but think that the dog is actually,well, pretty stupid....

The secret life of dogs - Horizon

You cant watch the clips unless your in the UK but read the text and follow the links and you'll see why dogs are so special....or ask brummytom to watch it and give you a synopsis

Its one of the best docs i've ever watched though, seriously...

Any one else catch it?

claire2010 · 10-06-2010 01:22AM

Love animals!! love life!!

10-06-2010 03:03AM

Higher animals - including humans - are very empathetic and intelligent. We have an awful lot in common with all sentient beings (even non-sentient ones), as evidenced by evolution. Empathy is a very interesting and wonderful result of natural selection.

Töpher · 10-06-2010 07:52AM

I want a lion,

.

johnny_knoxvile · 10-06-2010 10:21AM

donfers wrote: »

two examples that you may already have seen

hero dog rescues other dog from Chilean motorway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgWUeI3AHrs

fully grown lion remembers his human owners and greets them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNTdWbVBgc

questions?

How did dog know his mate was in trouble?

How did dog know to drag him out of way of traffic?

Why did dog risk his own life (if indeed he thought he was risking his life) to help mate?

How did Christian remember his human owners having not seen them in so long?

Were his owners not scared that

a) he might not remember them?

b) even if he did remember them, maybe he might get too enthusiastic during the reunion and injure them?

How can a wild animal create such a bond with a different species of creature?

You forgot the woman on Oprah who had her hands and face ripped off by a chimp. The fox that tried to eat the 9 month old children in England. And the big ape that ruined the Irish economy & the whale that is making a mess of the hospitals and health system.

christina_x · 10-06-2010 11:00AM

Bog wrote: »

Empathic? Hmm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVE60zwXx1k

:eek:

Irishcrx · 10-06-2010 11:24AM

Dogs are incredibly intelligent animals. My dogs are more loyal than some of my friends! , majority would gladly put themselfs in harms way to save their master and they would do it without hesitating aswell.

ScumLord · 10-06-2010 02:01PM

Nulty wrote: »

The secret life of dogs - Horizon

You cant watch the clips unless your in the UK but read the text and follow the links and you'll see why dogs are so special....or ask brummytom to watch it and give you a synopsis

Its one of the best docs i've ever watched though, seriously...

Any one else catch it?

That was an incredible show, it's amazing how the dog has evolved to read the human face almost just like we do.

I seen one on cats as hunters that was just as much of an eye opener, they're incredible hunters, in that show they said that looking a cat in the eyes is a sign of aggression to cats, whereas in humans and dog/human relationships i can be a fairly major form of bonding. That highlights what Peasant was saying about how we judge animals by our own standards, it's not that cats aren't very friendly it's just they work very different from us and we're probably acting in an aggressive manner to them (as they perceive it) every time we try to engage with them.

strobe · 10-06-2010 02:21PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I seen one on cats as hunters that was just as much of an eye opener, they're incredible hunters, in that show they said that looking a cat in the eyes is a sign of aggression to cats, whereas in humans and dog/human relationships i can be a fairly major form of bonding. That highlights what Peasant was saying about how we judge animals by our own standards, it's not that cats aren't very friendly it's just they work very different from us and we're probably acting in an aggressive manner to them (as they perceive it) every time we try to engage with them.

The thing along those lines which I never really understood is that we show are teeth (smile) when we are happy. But for dogs they show their teeth as a warning and a show of aggression. I wonder do they learn that we do it in the opposite circumstances they do or if they just think we are all narky little bastards.

ScumLord · 10-06-2010 02:55PM

strobe wrote: »

The thing along those lines which I never really understood is that we show are teeth (smile) when we are happy. But for dogs they show their teeth as a warning and a show of aggression. I wonder do they learn that we do it in the opposite circumstances they do or if they just think we are all narky little bastards.

From what I can remember of that "secret life of dogs" show the dog has adapted to understand human expression in much the same way we do. They showed that when a dog sees an other dog it reads the left side of the face first but when they look at a human face they read the right just like when humans look at humans. There is a subtle difference in how we display emotions on each side of the face which dogs have picked up on.

So they know the difference between a dog showing it's teeth and a human showing it's teeth. Something even higher primates would have difficulty doing, as they tend to show their top teeth as a sign of aggression and bottom teeth as a sign of pleasure. As far as I can remember.

Nulty · 10-06-2010 03:34PM

The selective breeding of snow foxes in russia was fascinating also. They domesticated a wild animal in 7 generations! The just separated the aggressive and docile members of each generation and only allowed the docile ones to breed and in 7 generations they had totally domesticated and passive specimins. The foxes actually changed physically in those generations too,...cant remember exactly how but their tails got smaller and changed colour or something.

They tried to raise a wolf in one generation but maybe they'd have more success if they tried it over several generations like the foxes.

Capt'n Midnight · 10-06-2010 07:02PM

The question is, what separates us from the animals ?

The Liffey. .

Are animals more empathetic and intelligent than we think?

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