The Arsenal-Cesc-Barca Love Triangle Thread

Including this in the op might help.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2010/06/02/1955218/goalcom-special-cesc-fabregas-arsenal-barcelona-saga-the

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

One quiet January window doesn't show much at all. January windows are traditionally seen to be a poor shopping time.

Football transfer values have continued to rise and rise for a long, long time, and there really isn't much suggestion at the moment that the trend has broken. The various spending plans a number of clubs, including Barca, are enthusiastically talking to the press about this summer don't really point to a leveling off either.

In all likelihood Cesc Fabregas has many more years left in his career than David Villa does, and I doubt Villa has more marketing potential. €50m for Cesc undervalues him by comparison.

So this Januarys transfer window was just a coincidence ?

Barca talking to the press ? You are talking crap. They aint saying that they will spend ridiculous fee's on players. Villa was bought for a reasonable price. The money offered for Cesc is not exorbitant and even if it is pushed from €35m to €50m then it still is not exorbitant. €87m on the other hand is ridiculous.

Gotta agree with eze and say that Fabregas is unproven in la liga as yet though I dont doubt he will do well he is still no Xavi by comparison and who is to say he ever will be. What happens if Cesc goes the way of Mendieta ? A monster of a player that just lost it after a €50m move to Serie A. He is still a risk and not one worth taking for €87m in my opinion.

This is all bollox in anyway as I guarantee should he move to Camp Nou his fee will not be as high as €87m and will probably be closer to €50m. The fact is Arsenal have a player who has supposedly told the manager he wants out and one way or another he will be gone either this summer or next in all likelihood and it probably wont be for €87m. I still think €35m plus Toure is good business considering how good Toure is and he is only coming into his prime.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0603/arsenal.html


Arsenal expect respect from Barcelona

Thursday, 3 June 2010 11:26
Arsenal have told Barcelona they expect the Catalan giants to respect their refusal to sell Cesc Fabregas.
The Gunners yesterday rejected an offer for their skipper from the Spanish champions, who have made no secret of their desire to bring the midfielder to the Nou Camp this summer.

Barcelona revealed they had submitted a written offer for the Spain international and the clubs were in 'formal' discussions over a possible deal, but Arsenal were quick to respond, stating they had 'no intention' of losing Fabregas.

'Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas is under contract with the club until the summer of 2015. He is a highly-valued member of the team and part of our future plans,' read a statement from the Barclays Premier League club.
'We have followed recent speculation linking Cesc with a move away from the club but as there has never been any official approach for him, only two informal exchanges, in which we made it abundantly clear that we have no interest in transferring Cesc, we have refrained from publicly passing comment.
'However, yesterday (Monday) evening we received an offer from Barcelona for Cesc and in response, we immediately and resolutely told them once again that we have no intention of selling our captain.
'To be clear, we will not make any kind of counterproposal or enter into any discussion. Barcelona have publicly stated that they will respect our position and we expect that they will keep their word.'
Barca's vice-president Rafael Yuste had earlier been confident they would get their man.
He told www.fcbarcelona.cat: 'I'm hopeful he can sign for the club as soon as possible. I'm optimistic and it is clear that he, his family, the players and the entire environment would give a very warm welcome.
'So we will not do anything to thwart his signing. We will not be in any kind of hurry, but we will not pause either. Now the ball is in Arsenal's court and, as we have an exceptional relationship with them, I am optimistic.'
Fabregas, who joined Arsenal from Barca at the age of 16, had fuelled speculation over a possible return to the club he supported as a boy at a promotional event in the Catalan capital last month.
He had said at the time: 'I think I would like to go to Barcelona. Whether or not they want me is another thing.'
Barca were not slow to express their reciprocal interest, although they vowed to do everything by the book and to show Arsenal 'respect'.
Fabregas' last appearance of the 2009/10 season came against his former club in the first leg of the Champions League quarter-final clash between the two sides, as a fractured leg ended his campaign.
However, he has recovered and has been included in Vicente del Bosque's 23-man squad for the World Cup in South Africa.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

All transfers are risks. Villa is a risk.

Villa; 45 apps, 28 goals, 10 assists
Fabregas, 36 apps, 19 goals, 19 assists

Villa is proven alright but so is Fabregas, and 5 years is a helluva long time in a footballer's career.

Are we really going to compare David Villa and Fabregas goal scoring ability? In 5 seasons at Valencia he has never scored less than 20 goals. 129 goals and 53 assists in 225 games. Fabregas' isn't as proven as Villa, especially in La Liga, and isn't as paramount to sucess, as Barca already have two superior player in Iniesta and Xavi. That's the point, Fabregas is a luxury that Barca would like to sign, they won't lose sleep if he ends up staying an extra season or two at the Emirates. No player other than Messi/ Ronaldo is worth more than 50 million euro. NONE.

Des wrote: »

Still though, all transfers are risks. could buy a player on a wednesday, could break his leg on thursday.

Villa playing for any team in La Liga is as small a risk as you could possibly think of. If you take that attitude you could say waking up in the morning is a risk, because you could break your leg getting out of bed. That kind of attitude can't even enter your mind when signing players, it would be different if he was an injury risk to begin with, however this isn't the case.

Frisbee wrote: »

Considering how hard they're pushing this and the constant comments from Laporta/Xavi/Pique/Cesc's Dad/The Barca Groundsman/Someone who was once at a Barca match it would seem that they certainly will lose sleep if they don't get their hands on this player that they need in no way shape or form.

They are trying their best to drive the price down (which is d*ckheady of course, but right now ethics isn't in question, intent is). I guarantee Barca will continue in the same vein without him, basically, Cesc isn't the key to success for Barca, but Villa may be, as he offers something different. As I said before, no player bar Messi/ Ronaldo is worth more than 50 million euro, regardless of whether they are 32 or 19 and playing at their peak.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

As I mentioned in the Barca thread, you only have to look at Arsenal's win ratio with him in the team:

with Cesc: 67%
without Cesc: 45%

URL="http://twitter.com/optajoe/status/14232902767"]source - Opta[/URL

Now that is utterly phenomenal. When the likes of Vieira and Keane were in their prime I don't think it went beyond 10% (7% is that figure I have for Vieira). He doesn't play in the final third as much so he's not as prolific in terms of goals, but that shows you Cesc is every bit the match winner that the likes of Messi and Ronaldo are. Just because Barca don't necessarily need him shouldn't take from his value as a player. He's a special player, who probably as another decade of the highest level in him. €80m is a totally justified valuation.

That's because at Arsenal he is far and away the best player in the team, he was at times their sole outlet for creativity, he IS Arsenal. I'm willing to bet my modship, car, and parent's house that there is no way he will make that big of a difference for Barcelona. Whereas Messi would. Put Messi/ Ronaldo/ Xavi into that Arsenal team instead of Cesc and the team would have an even larger success rate imo.

If he was as a phenomenal game changer as you make him seem (you mentioned him to be as good as Messi/ Ronaldo in that sense), then there is no way Del Bosque would not have him starting in the Spanish national team. Why is he consistenly behind Iniesta, Xavi, and Xabi Alonso in that line up?

Sorry again for all the edits, but another thing. The reason Vieira and Keane didn't have similar success statistics is because they all played in much more balanced teams with players around them that could cope without their presence. Arsenal are a much less dangerous and feared team without Fabregas, but without Vieira they still had Pires, Henry, Cole, Freddie. It was still a frightening team. I like Arsenal, and they have plenty of fantastic players, but the squad is nowhere near consistent enough to be compared to the likes that Keane and Vieira played in, and to use that as a way of emphasising Fabregas' talents is a bit invalid imo.

Frisbee wrote: »

Yes, but if they want him as bad as they are letting on they have to meet our valuation. If we value him at 50M then Barca should either pay that or stfu. Yes Barca are the only club he wants to go to so we will have to accept a deal from them. If Cesc isn't happy with it then tough, he's stuck with us, all his badge kissing last season means he should surely respect the wishes of the club he is contracted to. He was happy enough with us to sign a new contract on better pay, he should be happy to repect the fact that the club won't sell him for less than their valuation.

As you say no player is worth more than 50M bar Messi/Ronaldo. However what a player is worth is irrelevant. What the club he is contracted to value him at is what's important.

Barca were willing to spend 24M on Chyrkdkfjdvjd but won't go higher than 30M for Cesc? Laughable.

That's not even the argument here Frisbee. I agree that Cesc is worth FARRRR more than 35 million (but I wouldn't complain if he joined for that , and again, Barca were quite obviously lowballing you, but that figure was made weeks ago, it's at least 45/ 50 million now). I'm arguing with Lenin that no player is worth 87million. (and again, I agree with you that the club should be allowed value him at what they want, I just think it's ridiculous to think Fabregas is ACTUALLY worth the valuation, something Lenin seems to think is fair)

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'd say the same about Fabregas and Barcelona.

He's been trained in the same football philosophy as all the other players at Barca have. He played with Pique and Messi, he won the European Championship with Xavi, Iniesta, Villa etc (and was outstanding in the process), and he's spent the last couple of years learning his trade in the most competitive league in the world.

For the record, I think he's a better player than Iniesta. Iniesta has the advantage of playing with a considerable chunk of the NT on a weekly basis, not that the NT selection really means that much anyway.

Only things that he has over Iniesta is a goal scoring threat (which he is much much better at) and his ability to 'get stuck in', but Iniesta's vision, passing, link up play, dribbling, and intelligence are all significantly ahead of Fabregas imo. And as you say, Iniesta has the added bonus of being in the same environment over his whole career, which is a positive in my eyes, as he doesn't look like he'll ever be out of that situation. Iniesta's dribbling and the space he opens up with it is even more impressive than Messi's. But ya, neither here nor there I guess. Both fantastic players, both going to play in the national team for close to the next 10 years.

Frisbee wrote: »

Considering how hard they're pushing this and the constant comments from Laporta/Xavi/Pique/Cesc's Dad/The Barca Groundsman/Someone who was once at a Barca match it would seem that they certainly will lose sleep if they don't get their hands on this player that they need in no way shape or form.

Simply down to presidential elections and promises made. Barca and their fans won't lose any sleep, Fabregas would likely be on the bench as he is for Spain.

tdv123 wrote: »

They don't really need Fabregas anyway.

Xaxi,Iniesta & Toure. Thats all ready a perfect midfield. And there all superior to Fabregas at what they do.

None off them are in pepsi or pringles ads.

I reckon most of it is down to Cesc as a product not a player. 2 years ago before he started appearing on ads, Lapaorta said they'd never buy a player who left barca, there was almost an accusation in the way he said it. They bought pique back and that went out the window. Cesc started to get more recognised commercially and laporta\barcas tune changed.

Im an arsenal fan and i say sell fabergas for a nice price buy green a solid centre back and gorcuff and then we do the treble

gosplan wrote: »

You do know that with the money we have available, we could buy those players and keep Fabregas.

us and some other club in the premierleague forget who are apparently the only ones making profit