Discrimination against people because of their surplus weight

consultech · 26-05-2010 09:49AM

TBH I would probably do the same thing if I were in a hiring position any time soon.

Aside from the fact that fit and healthier people are most likely able to work for a greater time/intensity...

I think that being overweight generally makes a statement about someone's motivation and self-discipline as a person. In any prospective employee you want someone who is a self-starter and who will go the extra mile. If a person can't even muster the enthusiasm to throw on a pair of runners and go for a walk, then what does this most likely say about them as a professional?

In my experience it has also been the more ample colleagues who always take more sick days and are "shattered" etc. during crunch/busy periods in work. I'm also aware there are various medical conditions that cause weight gain, but these conditions are in the atomic minority. Fat people generally just eat too much shit and don't exercise enough.

yoshytoshy · 26-05-2010 09:58AM

Fat peoples arguments ,hold more weight in threads like these!
I Should know !

consultech · 26-05-2010 10:02AM

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Fat peoples arguments ,hold more weight in threads like these!
I Should know !

Was that intentional?

yoshytoshy · 26-05-2010 10:06AM

consultech wrote: »

Was that intentional?

Being overweight actually helps me in work ,sometimes I've to lift stuff that ways over 70KG up onto a wall.
When your on your own ,the extra bit of weight/leverage comes in very handy.
You'd be suprised what work us fat people can get done.

bonerm · 26-05-2010 10:18AM

More people should take up the Auschwitz diet. You won't see any fat people in those photographs.

seamus · 26-05-2010 10:31AM

Trashbat wrote: »

I think weight discrimination is possibly more damaging, as there is a school of though in existence that a person's weight issues are their own fault, which allows for potential employers to justify their discrimination to themselves, thus legitimising it.

99.9% of the time a person's weight issues are their own fault. Being overweight is something which you can change. It's not like skin colour, nationality or accent. It's something which the person has caused to themselves and which they can undo.
It's exactly the same as if someone turned up to an interview in a pair of jeans and scruffy hair and then claimed they were being discriminated against. I'm not saying that fatness is "scruffy", but that it is an external feature of onesself which you can change.

It certainly should be considered at a greater length when discussing equality issues.

No it shouldn't. Obesity should not be considered an equality issue. Obesity is a manifestation of equality - the equal right to choose what we eat and how much. Equality comes with responsibility - if you want to have free choice, then you need to make responsible choices.

The_Minister wrote: »

People are frequently overweight due to underlying medical or psychological issues, but tbh people naturally judge on appearance.

People are very rarely overweight due to physiological issues. Psychological issues perhaps, but in the same way that alcoholics are alcoholics because of an underlying psychological issue - addiction.
Would you berate an employer for refusing to hire an alcoholic?

Now to level the field a bit, I'm not a 12 stone adonis. I have my extra flangy bits, more than most, and I have trouble shifting them. So I'm not for second trying to say that losing weight is easy or that fat people are just lazy. But it annoys me, really really annoys me to hear fat people going on about discrimination or equal rights. You have the right to be fat and accept the consequences (medical/social/personal) and you equally have the right to not be fat and accept different circumstances. Fatness/Obesity is a choice for the vast majority of people.

If you complain that you cannot lose weight - go to your doctor. If they find that you have a medical condition that pervents you from easily losing weight, then you can get treatment. In all other cases, you are fat because you choose to be - because you do not want to be skinny badly enough to make the sacrifices required to achieve that goal. Therefore you choose to be fat and you have chosen to accept that you will be discriminated against for making that choice.

The whole employer thing isn't a misnomer by the way. It's been tested and shown that people hiring do in fact favour slimmer people over fatter people. They did a whole rake of tests presenting two faces to people and asking them who they would prefer to hire for a job, assuming both candidates were equally qualified. They even changed some of the photos so that skinny people looked fatter and fatter people looked skinny, and the slimmer candidate won out almost every time. Obviously they never told anyone what they were doing, so the choices were entirely subconscious.

Interestingly they also found that people who were fat were *more* likely to choose a slimmer candidate than slim people were.

As a species, we are programmed to favour the stronger and more attractive people in our society over those who are (seemingly) lazier and less attractive. Fatness makes you look lazy and less attractive, therefore society will continue to discriminate against you subconsciously until YOU change YOURSELF.

</rant over>

kylith · 26-05-2010 10:49AM

the_syco wrote: »

And a small bag of spuds would cost a fiver.

Where are you shopping? You can get 10kg of spuds in Superquinn for €8, that's enough to last for a week, depending on how many people you're cooking for. A kilo of pasta would feed 4 people or so for a euro, throw in a can of tomatoes for what, 50c? and some mince for 2 euro, and you have a meal for 4/6 for €3.50.

The reason that pre-packaged stuff is so cheap is because there's sod all actual food in it. Cooking from scratch is healthier and works out cheaper because you need to eat less of it.

kylith · 26-05-2010 10:59AM

seamus wrote: »

As a species, we are programmed to favour the stronger and more attractive people in our society over those who are (seemingly) lazier and less attractive. Fatness makes you look lazy and less attractive, therefore society will continue to discriminate against you subconsciously until YOU change YOURSELF.

I agree with most of your points, but this is wrong. In many cultures it's desirable, for women especially, to be overweight. It shows that you can afford lots of food, so you're wealthy, it also means that you're less likely to starve to death during famine. In some African cultures before a woman is married she's basically locked away and fed lots of milk in order to fatten her up for her husband.

Prehistoric female figures discovered during archaeological digs have pendulous breasts, swollen bellies and big arses. It's only in recent times that being skinny has become a good thing, mostly since we discovered the health benefits. Previously we wouldn't have lived long enough anyway to really suffer from the negative aspects of obesity.

Hannibal Smith · 26-05-2010 11:04AM

I remember being in primary school with this guy who was obese and I often wonder now how he coped with the abuse he got. Sometimes children can be cruel, without meaning to be and you think that because he's that way he should be thick skinned (no pun intended) about it and take it on the chin.

I think to judge a person because of their weight is one of the most shallow characteristics we have. It's like judging some one because of their skin colour.

What a person eats or how a person looks really is no one else's business and to use it as a reason not to talk to them or hire them and to judge them is just a cheap nasty shot at upping your own feel good factor.

Hannibal Smith · 26-05-2010 11:19AM

consultech wrote: »

TBH I would probably do the same thing if I were in a hiring position any time soon.

Aside from the fact that fit and healthier people are most likely able to work for a greater time/intensity...

I think that being overweight generally makes a statement about someone's motivation and self-discipline as a person. In any prospective employee you want someone who is a self-starter and who will go the extra mile. If a person can't even muster the enthusiasm to throw on a pair of runners and go for a walk, then what does this most likely say about them as a professional?

In my experience it has also been the more ample colleagues who always take more sick days and are "shattered" etc. during crunch/busy periods in work. I'm also aware there are various medical conditions that cause weight gain, but these conditions are in the atomic minority. Fat people generally just eat too much shit and don't exercise enough.

That's just sad. I've worked with all kinds of people, of all shapes and sizes and I've never noticed a difference in their ability to work, or to get the job done.

The current work climate is bad enough as it is with a lot of employers adopting the 'we can treat you like crap because you should be glad to have a job' mentality', not to mention pay cuts and three day weeks. To think there are further and such fickle obstacles now facing employees is just so depressing.

seraphimvc · 26-05-2010 11:19AM

Fat girl rodeo can be a solution :pac:

seamus · 26-05-2010 11:24AM

kylith wrote: »

I agree with most of your points, but this is wrong. In many cultures it's desirable, for women especially, to be overweight. It shows that you can afford lots of food, so you're wealthy, it also means that you're less likely to starve to death during famine. In some African cultures before a woman is married she's basically locked away and fed lots of milk in order to fatten her up for her husband.

Prehistoric female figures discovered during archaeological digs have pendulous breasts, swollen bellies and big arses. It's only in recent times that being skinny has become a good thing, mostly since we discovered the health benefits. Previously we wouldn't have lived long enough anyway to really suffer from the negative aspects of obesity.

I agree to an extent, but we can also unduly be influenced by culture and society to prefer some things over others, even if those "others" are the preferred choice, from a reproductive point of view.

In terms of fatness in women, it can be desirable to have a woman who is more on the chunky side than on the skinny side, because she will provide a better environment for the child being borne and therefore makes the woman more physically desirable. Most men will tell that they prefer a little extra meat than not enough meat.

For men on the other hand, as the hunter/gatherer/provider, you want a man who is physically strong, willing and capable. While there will be an attraction to wealth/weight in terms of the provider, the vast majority of women will say that a leaner man (not necessarily a model, just not folds and wobbles everywhere) is physically more attractive than an overweight man, all other things being equal.

The science behind attraction is far more complex than who is the most physically appealing, but if we separate out the physical part, we find that the vast majority of people (aside from fringe cases), are more physically attracted to men and women within the average range for weight.

star.chaser · 26-05-2010 11:32AM

fat people make the world go round

ash23 · 26-05-2010 11:45AM

kylith wrote: »

Where are you shopping? You can get 10kg of spuds in Superquinn for €8, that's enough to last for a week, depending on how many people you're cooking for. A kilo of pasta would feed 4 people or so for a euro, throw in a can of tomatoes for what, 50c? and some mince for 2 euro, and you have a meal for 4/6 for €3.50.

The reason that pre-packaged stuff is so cheap is because there's sod all actual food in it. Cooking from scratch is healthier and works out cheaper because you need to eat less of it.

As per tesco.ie

1 kg pasta (own brand) €1.63
Own brand round steak mince 500g €6.00 (no point in trying to be healthy and eating something thats mainly fat)
Can of tomatoes (you'd need 2) own brand 80c each.

Total = €9.23.

Or toddle over to the freezer and get

1.5kg oven chips own brand €1.34
2 large tins own brand baked beans 49c each
Box of 10 cod fish fingers (birds eye) €2.94

Total = €5.26

THAT is the reality of it.

Crap processed food is cheaper.

Hence why those on the poverty line tend to be more overweight.
Its because "healthy" food is more expensive. Even for the basics.

kylith · 26-05-2010 12:04PM

I'm really curious now to see people's shopping list and cost for a week, to see whose comes out cheaper.

ash23 · 26-05-2010 12:09PM

kylith wrote: »

I'm really curious now to see people's shopping list and cost for a week, to see whose comes out cheaper.

My weekly food budget for myself and one child is €30.

I plan my meals and rarely buy meat and my shopping is done with military percision and every penny is accounted for.
However, if I weren't so concious of trying to lose weight and trying to be healthy I could easily walk into a supermarket and stock up on chips and beans and burgers and sausages, sugar filled breakfast cereals and salt laden sauces and walk out with change in my wallet thinking I was doing great for being able to feed meat to my child 7 days a week. At the moment we have meat maybe 3 times a week max.

Education is key.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 26-05-2010 12:16PM

Read any self help type book about doing well in your career and you'll be advised to make yourself as attractive as possible. Generally people are less attractive whilst overweight than healthy weight.

We can't have anti discrimination laws for everything, would get out of hand. What's next - gingers, short people, people who vote fianna fail, man united supporters.

Cop on and go to the gym

ash23 · 26-05-2010 12:17PM

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Cop on and go to the gym

Are you going to pay for it and mind my daughter while I do? :rolleyes:

Uoykcuf · 26-05-2010 12:24PM

I perceive a person's obesity as the prime indicator of their laziness.

Moaning about the price of food and being too tired to exercise just supports that perception.

Hannibal Smith · 26-05-2010 12:25PM

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Read any self help type book about doing well in your career and you'll be advised to make yourself as attractive as possible. Generally people are less attractive whilst overweight than healthy weight.

We can't have anti discrimination laws for everything, would get out of hand. What's next - gingers, short people, people who vote fianna fail, man united supporters.

Cop on and go to the gym

You don't need anti discrimination laws to tell you you're being a judgemental clown!

It's illegal to discriminate against a pregnant woman in a job interview. She may well not be in peak physical condition to meet the demands of some people's requirements in this thread and will be taking up to 6 months off for maternity leave. But still, you cannot discriminate against her because of it.

Everyone's lifestyle differs for reasons no-one truly knows, but to think they cannot do a job because of it (unless it's running a gym or something

), really is madness.

ash23 · 26-05-2010 12:34PM

Uoykcuf wrote: »

I perceive a person's obesity as the prime indicator of their laziness.

Moaning about the price of food and being too tired to exercise just supports that perception.

I probably do more in an hour than a lot of people do in a day.

I have a full time job and then practically another one as a single mother. I am also studying and doing exams. But my job is sedentary. My evenings are spent sitting, studying while my child is in bed.

I have a couple of hours to myself once a week and I generally go for a walk but it just isn't enough. If I'm not at work, I'm with my child or studying when she is in bed (she goes to bed at 8pm and I'm housebound from then until morning). We go for a stroll in the evenings but you're not going to get any sort of "burn" from walking with a 7 year old who is tired and ready for bed.

For those who are fortunate enough to have the time and money to fit regular exercise into their routine, then great. But don't accuse those who can't of laziness.

I used to be in the gym and I loved it. I lost 5 stone and I've managed to keep it off for over 2 years but I need to lose another couple of stone and I know the only way to shift it is exercise. I'd love to get an hour a day to myself to head off on a walk with my ipod blaring and get some "me" time but that luxury isn't there for me at the moment.

If that makes me "lazy" then so be it.

Uoykcuf · 26-05-2010 12:34PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

You don't need anti discrimination laws to tell you you're being a judgemental clown!

It's illegal to discriminate against a pregnant woman in a job interview. She may well not be in peak physical condition to meet the demands of some people's requirements in this thread and will be taking up to 6 months off for maternity leave. But still, you cannot discriminate against her because of it.

.

There's a big difference between pregnancy and gluttony. :pac:

Uoykcuf · 26-05-2010 12:44PM

ash23 wrote: »

For those who are fortunate enough to have the time and money to fit regular exercise into their routine, then great. But don't accuse those who can't of laziness.

You don't need time or money to stop eating too much food.

ash23 · 26-05-2010 12:46PM

Uoykcuf wrote: »

You don't need time or money to stop eating too much food.

I don't overeat now.
As I stated already I've lost weight on dieting alone but I know the last stretch is going to take exercise to get rid. My metabolism is slower because I was overweight for so long.
No matter how little you eat (short of starving yourself) , if you don't get to exercise and you are prone to weight gain, then you will put on weight.

PeakOutput · 26-05-2010 12:49PM

ash23 wrote: »

I plan my meals and rarely buy meat

out of curiosity how do you and your kid get enough protein?

Uoykcuf · 26-05-2010 12:54PM

ash23 wrote: »

I don't overeat now.
As I stated already I've lost weight on dieting alone but I know the last stretch is going to take exercise to get rid. My metabolism is slower because I was overweight for so long.
No matter how little you eat (short of starving yourself) , if you don't get to exercise and you are prone to weight gain, then you will put on weight.

If you were determined to lose weight, you could sort out your diet and exercise. If you know you are prone to gaining weight then that should be something you've already figured out.

If you are housebound in the evenings, you could still exercise in the house as a break from studying.

The excuses and reasoning behind why this is too difficult for you to organise smacks of laziness. No one else is going to sort it out for you. 'Operation Transformation' probably won't be on again too soon for obvious relevant reasons. :P

ash23 · 26-05-2010 12:55PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

out of curiosity how do you and your kid get enough protein?

We eat eggs a couple of times a week and we have fish a lot either in lunches or in dinners.
It's cheaper than red meat.
We also eat dairy (cheese and yogurts - low fat of course) and snack on sunflower seeds and nuts. Peanut butter with no added sugar on breads with grains and seeds etc.

ash23 · 26-05-2010 12:55PM

Uoykcuf wrote: »

If you were determined to lose weight, you could sort out your diet and exercise. If you know you are prone to gaining weight then that should be something you've already figured out.

If you are housebound in the evenings, you could still exercise in the house as a break from studying.

The excuses and reasoning behind why this is too difficult for you to organise smacks of laziness. No one else is going to sort it out for you. 'Operation Transformation' probably won't be on again too soon for obvious relevant reasons. :P

Yeah I'm bone idle. That last 5 stone just melted off me with no effort at all. :rolleyes:

Edited to add....has it occurred to you that for some people, losing weight may not be a priority?
Like giving up smoking, or climbing mount everest or writing a novel....the people might WANT to do it, and hope to do it in the future. But perhaps they just don't have the willpower at that time in their life or the energy. Perhaps their attentions are focussed elsewhere.
Doesn't everyone have something they WANT to do, but life is just in the way. That if they really knuckled down and put their mind to it, they could but they just can't do it right now?

Yeah, you're dead right. I could start weighing my food and lifting bottles of water in front of the tv while doing an exercise programme I looked up online. I could be militant in my approach and stop having wine and never eat anything other than the strict diet I'd found online.
And I could lose that last couple of stone.

But I'd probably tip myself over the edge being honest.

My priorities at the moment are bringing up my child, working in order to keep a roof over my head and finishing my education (starting my degree course in September).
I honestly don't think I could cope with a militant eating and training regime on top of it. I genuinely don't.

But just because I don't, doesn't make me lazy. Just because the guy who dreams of climbing mount everest isn't out training for it because he has a job and kids, doesn't make him lazy. Or the person who dreams of going back to college and becoming a doctor but has to stay in the job that feeds the kids..they aren't lazy either.

I doubt there is anyone who would say they are doing EVERYTHING they have ever wanted to do in life.

PeakOutput · 26-05-2010 01:01PM

ash23 wrote: »

We eat eggs a couple of times a week and we have fish a lot either in lunches or in dinners.
It's cheaper than red meat.
We also eat dairy (cheese and yogurts - low fat of course) and snack on sunflower seeds and nuts. Peanut butter with no added sugar on breads with grains and seeds etc.

cool cool if it helps at all you can bump up that egg in take no problems at all and if there is a butcher within 20mins of you it might worth check out

for just me(and i eat a shed load) i can get two weeks worth of a variety of meat for 30yoyo

The excuses and reasoning behind why this is too difficult for you to organise smacks of laziness.

you dont think its possible that people have priorities higher than working out?

i work out a good bit, and i hate lazy people who bitch about being tired all the time etc, but there is a middle ground. a single mother who has a full time job and is studying sounds like that middle ground to me if excerisise was more important than either of those 3 things she would be doing it but its not, that dosnt make her lazy.

there are actually people who are too busy to sit down and watch tv for 3 hours every night.

having said all that there is a huge number of bone lazy unhealthy fatties who just couldnt be bothered getting off their whole and skipping lost to go for a run. these people deserve everything they get imo

Uoykcuf · 26-05-2010 01:01PM

ash23 wrote: »

Yeah I'm bone idle. That last 5 stone just melted off me with no effort at all. :rolleyes:

Fair play, but where did the extra 5 stone come from in the first place?

Discrimination against people because of their surplus weight

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