Discrimination against people because of their surplus weight

ejmaztec · 25-05-2010 11:44PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I worked with a guy once who was exremely obese. He slipped in the office once, cut his leg & gravy came out.

Stop telling porkies.

Boxoffrogs · 25-05-2010 11:45PM

I think, as unpleasant as it may be to tackle, it's something we've got to confront.

I would never discriminate against someone because of their weight, after all it's not me who will feel the adverse affects. But for an employer, I think they might well have grounds to discriminate depending on the position involved. I hate seeing anyone being treated cruelly though.

I just can't help noticing that as a country, we're expanding width-ways all the time, the following, although maybe a little out of date says it all:

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?con=587

Millicent · 25-05-2010 11:54PM

RMD wrote: »

Should have made my response clearer in hindsight.

1) Yes there is a link between low-income households and weight problems but from personal experience (growing up in a working class area) that's to do with little care for what their eating or little knowledge of what they're eating. A couple of chicken fillets and value bag of Tescos pasta will be cheaper than most other "cheap" solutions, with a portion of vegetables on the side such as carrots, potatoes or broccoli you've a well balanced meal that cost less than many other solutions. There is many other healthy cheap alternatives.

2) I would certainly consider them a valid reason. Although on the physical side, I'd give it much less leeway unless it was a serious condition preventing all forms of exercise. I've noticed quite a few "obese" people using physical "conditions" as an excuse to avoid exercise when there is many solutions available.

3) I don't think less of a person for having a few extra pounds. What I don't applaud though is those are "fat" or "obese" enough to a point where it limits what they can do in life and they don't have the willpower to change it for their own quality of life and their future health. If I was an employer and came across a candidate who was obese without what I'd consider a valid excuse, they'd certainly go down in my books.

1) I agree but a lot of that has to do with sufficient nutritional education and while a lot of the suggestions you listed in point 1 may seem obvious to you and me, in poorer socio-economic environments (and I'm not tarring all lower income households with the one brush), they may not know the difference. This was hammered home to me by a show Jamie Oliver did where he tried to get people cooking (the name escapes me now) and while I wouldn't necessarily believe that people could be that naive before, that show really opened my eyes.

2) I happen to be slightly overweight (not massively- say, half a stone) and part of it has to do with hormonal changes as I've gotten older. Some of it has to do with eating on the go with college and work, some to do with the tiredness that comes from depression and the lack of motivation it can bring and part of it has to do with being nearly flat-footed which causes my feet to ache when I exercise or stand for any period of time. Not excusing my weight (and I don't feel I have to) but there are often complexities to weight issues which are not immediately apparent.

3) I kind of agree with you here. A colleague of mine has diet-induced diabetes. Their weight-range is obese and I have seen the lesions and infections caused by the diabetes. There is nothing wrong with this person that any of us can see that is not self-inflicted but they still drink bottles of coke, eat McDonalds etc. even after being told of overweight people who have lost their legs to gangrene from diabetes. This person has been told by their doctor to lose weight or they will have to endure a lot of suffering unnecessarily but still they don't. While I can't fathom why you would not try to control your diet if you have a condition like diabetes from your diet, it's not for me to pass judgement.

stovelid · 25-05-2010 11:56PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I worked with a guy once who was exremely obese. He slipped in the office once, cut his leg & gravy came out.

Tony Blundetto? :pac:

swe_fi · 25-05-2010 11:57PM

Fat people are looked down upon because they lack self control so they can't be trusted with company secrets because they might trade them for a box of donuts.

In certain sectors / position surplus weight can actually be an advantage, and no, I do not mean sumo-wrestlers.

What I mean is at a certain age / position a proper hard man-barrelgut (it can't be any old flappy soft belly)gives you gravitas, credibility and natural authority. Only works if you are a man though.

m@cc@ · 26-05-2010 12:02AM

You shouldn't sugar coat these things because they'll only end up eating that as well.

WallysWorld · 26-05-2010 12:07AM

The thread title is pretty dumb, calling it "surplus weight" is some politically correct bull****.

If you are fat then thats what it is, you cant sell off your surplus fat cheap in Harvey Normans due to you having too much of it, and they're always selling off surplus stock.

RMD · 26-05-2010 12:10AM

Millicent wrote: »

1) I agree but a lot of that has to do with sufficient nutritional education and while a lot of the suggestions you listed in point 1 may seem obvious to you and me, in poorer socio-economic environments (and I'm not tarring all lower income households with the one brush), they may not know the difference. This was hammered home to me by a show Jamie Oliver did where he tried to get people cooking (the name escapes me now) and while I wouldn't necessarily believe that people could be that naive before, that show really opened my eyes.

I remember the show you're talking about and it's that actual series of shows done by Jamie Oliver that opened my eyes to how healthy one can eat for cheap. I remember in one episode for 1.77£ per student he prepared Chicken fillets in a simple lemon sauce with roasted potatoes and carrots. Still had enough money left over to buy a juice carton per meal as well. This wasn't anything extravagant, it was something that could be thrown together by anyone once they were shown the recipe. None of it was processed, just bought in bulk like done by schools. Certainly healthier than nuggets and chips. That show opened me up say to preparing my own pasta meal instead of buying one of the more expensive "throw in the oven and it's done type".

Millicent wrote: »

2) I happen to be slightly overweight (not massively- say, half a stone) and part of it has to do with hormonal changes as I've gotten older. Some of it has to do with eating on the go with college and work, some to do with the tiredness that comes from depression and the lack of motivation it can bring and part of it has to do with being nearly flat-footed which causes my feet to ache when I exercise or stand for any period of time. Not excusing my weight (and I don't feel I have to) but there are often complexities to weight issues which are not immediately apparent.

Half a stone is nothing. When I say overweight or fat, I mean people who are noticeably overweight on first glance. I'm not trying to cause any offense, but you're doing what I'm talking about exactly there. You're being "lazy" and only thinking about the obvious. If you can find time in your day why not go swimming for exercise? Your flat foot problem wont play any effect and it's healthier than any sport involving walking or running. People need to think of what they can do instead of a limitation rather than just thinking of their limitations. There are also often solutions to a weight problem which often aren't immediately apparent.

Millicent wrote: »

3) I kind of agree with you here. A colleague of mine has diet-induced diabetes. Their weight-range is obese and I have seen the lesions and infections caused by the diabetes. There is nothing wrong with this person that any of us can see that is not self-inflicted but they still drink bottles of coke, eat McDonalds etc. even after being told of overweight people who have lost their legs to gangrene from diabetes. This person has been told by their doctor to lose weight or they will have to endure a lot of suffering unnecessarily but still they don't. While I can't fathom why you would not try to control your diet if you have a condition like diabetes from your diet, it's not for me to pass judgement.

I have a fat friend who refuses to do exercise simply because he has "joint" pain, he's fine when exercise seems to suit him, but once you mention regular exercise to him it's "oh no I can't" and "oh but my knee". His joint pain isn't so bad that it prevents him from doing most tasks that put stress on the knee and if anything he could take up something like swimming or gym work for exercise without putting any noticeable strain on his knee.

Someone who has as little regard for their health as your colleague does is the main type of person I'm getting on about. In the cases of diabetes, sticking to a healthy diet would be a form of trying to combat their obesity. The fact though that he still eats absolute ****e demonstrates his pure lack of willpower and laziness to change what poses a serious health risk in the future.

Sonnenblumen · 26-05-2010 12:18AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It would depend on the job

A fat person would have a much better chance of getting a job as a Santa Claus in a department store than a skinny guy.

Swings and rooundabouts.

Nah, more like burgers and doughnuts!

Sonnenblumen · 26-05-2010 12:22AM

In contrast to most people, Fat people only talk to stop eating.

Millicent · 26-05-2010 12:22AM

RMD wrote: »

I remember the show you're talking about and it's that actual series of shows done by Jamie Oliver that opened my eyes to how healthy one can eat for cheap. I remember in one episode for 1.77£ per student he prepared Chicken fillets in a simple lemon sauce with roasted potatoes and carrots. Still had enough money left over to buy a juice carton per meal as well. This wasn't anything extravagant, it was something that could be thrown together by anyone once they were shown the recipe. None of it was processed, just bought in bulk like done by schools. Certainly healthier than nuggets and chips. That show opened me up say to preparing my own pasta meal instead of buying one of the more expensive "throw in the oven and it's done type".

Half a stone is nothing. When I say overweight or fat, I mean people who are noticeably overweight on first glance. I'm not trying to cause any offense, but you're doing what I'm talking about exactly there. You're being "lazy" and only thinking about the obvious. If you can find time in your day why not go swimming for exercise? Your flat foot problem wont play any effect and it's healthier than any sport involving walking or running. People need to think of what they can do instead of a limitation rather than just thinking of their limitations. There are also often solutions to a weight problem which often aren't immediately apparent.

I have a fat friend who refuses to do exercise simply because he has "joint" pain, he's fine when exercise seems to suit him, but once you mention regular exercise to him it's "oh no I can't" and "oh but my knee". His joint pain isn't so bad that it prevents him from doing most tasks that put stress on the knee and if anything he could take up something like swimming or gym work for exercise without putting any noticeable strain on his knee.

Someone who has as little regard for their health as your colleague does is the main type of person I'm getting on about. In the cases of diabetes, sticking to a healthy diet would be a form of trying to combat their obesity. The fact though that he still eats absolute ****e demonstrates his pure lack of willpower and laziness to change what poses a serious health risk in the future.

And to that first point, I think if you can educate people like Jamie did, you might find a decrease in weight problems in households like those shown and I'm all in favour of it. I think that show should be shown to everyone to emphasise how easily it can be done and for far cheaper than a chipper.

As to the point about being "lazy", I'm not sure you understand the nature of depression. Depressed people don't tend to treat themselves very well (and other vices such as smoking have shown to have a slightly higher prevalence in mentally ill people). I am genuinely not lazy- I work hard at my job and at college but sometimes, any spare energy one has can be spent just trying to get out of bed. It's one of those circular things- getting healthier would improve the depression but working up the will to exercise etc. can require all one's energy. That said, I recognise that I need to do something about it and am trying to get the depression under control and am moving to sort out all the bothersome aspects of my life such as the weight.

The person I work with that I was talking about does bother me when I consider them. They originally had the onset of type 2 diabetes and were told if they controlled their diet, they would be okay (not needing to inject). A few months later, I believe they were diagnosed as type 1 IIRC. That to me is madness.

segaBOY · 26-05-2010 12:40AM

Millicent wrote: »

The person I work with that I was talking about does bother me when I consider them. They originally had the onset of type 2 diabetes and were told if they controlled their diet, they would be okay (not needing to inject). A few months later, I believe they were diagnosed as type 1 IIRC. That to me is madness.

Type 1 diabetes tends to be caused by genetics. This person may have developed a severe form of type 2 and thus had to inject. Sometimes injecting insulin is the best form of control and it is not something to be looked on as "bad", it is simply the best way of controlling a very sensitive and serious disease if left untreated.

Managing type 2 is easier said than done. People with type 2 tend to get tired quicker and thus exercise is much harder for even short periods. Even with lifestyle modifications it may have been too late for the person to avoid injection after diagnosis. Exercise and lifestyle modifications from now on may mean your work colleague can go back to just tablets later.

segaBOY · 26-05-2010 12:42AM

swe_fi wrote: »

In certain sectors / position surplus weight can actually be an advantage, and no, I do not mean sumo-wrestlers.

What I mean is at a certain age / position a proper hard man-barrelgut (it can't be any old flappy soft belly)gives you gravitas, credibility and natural authority. Only works if you are a man though.

The Guards have stopped hiring afaik.

Millicent · 26-05-2010 12:44AM

segaBOY wrote: »

Type 1 diabetes tends to be caused by genetics. This person may have developed a severe form of type 2 and thus had to inject. Sometimes injecting insulin is the best form of control and it is not something to be looked on as "bad", it is simply the best way of controlling a very sensitive and serious disease if left untreated.

Managing type 2 is easier said than done. People with type 2 tend to get tired quicker and thus exercise is much harder for even short periods. Even with lifestyle modifications it may have been too late for the person to avoid injection after diagnosis. Exercise and lifestyle modifications from now on may mean your work colleague can go back to just tablets later.

Okay, sorry. I wasn't sure. I knew it had worsened but couldn't remember if I had it right so thanks for that.

And I'm not as clued in on diabetes as I should be but they regularly get leg swelling and weeping sores from it but don't treat them in any way.

And I'm in no way saying that it is easy for this person but they do not try to control their diabetes in anyway. It's sad because you hate to see someone make themselves ill like that but what can you do?

Thanks for the info again, btw.

segaBOY · 26-05-2010 12:50AM

Millicent wrote: »

Okay, sorry. I wasn't sure. I knew it had worsened but couldn't remember if I had it right so thanks for that. And I'm not as clued in on diabetes as I shhould be but they regularly get leg swelling and weeping sores from it but don't treat them in any way.

And I'm in no way saying that it is easy for this person but they do not try to control their diabetes in anyway. It's sad because you hate to see someone make themselves ill like that but what can you do?

Thanks for the info again, btw.

I deal with diabetics very regularly and it is a shame to see it happen, especially considering the problem is destined to get worse over the next number of years.

I see (and agree) with what you're saying 100% just thought I'd point it out incase there was any diabetics here using the insulin pen etc.

Millicent · 26-05-2010 12:52AM

segaBOY wrote: »

I deal with diabetics very regularly and it is a shame to see it happen, especially considering the problem is destined to get worse over the next number of years.

I see (and agree) with what you're saying 100% just thought I'd point it out incase there was any diabetics here using the insulin pen etc.

Oh definitely, thanks again. I wouldn't like to be giving anyone the wrong impression of it.

Euro_Kraut · 26-05-2010 12:53AM

RMD wrote: »

1) Yes there is a link between low-income households and weight problems but from personal experience (growing up in a working class area) that's to do with little care for what their eating or little knowledge of what they're eating. A couple of chicken fillets and value bag of Tescos pasta will be cheaper than most other "cheap" solutions, with a portion of vegetables on the side such as carrots, potatoes or broccoli you've a well balanced meal that cost less than many other solutions. There is many other healthy cheap alternatives.

Low-income is highly correlated with poorly educated. Poor education levels has a big impact on the decisions families make for their child.

So yes, you can be on the dole and not be overweight. However often people are on the dole and poorly educated (which prehaps is a euphemism for 'a little thick') and do not understand why its not a good idea to take the kids to Burger King everyday.

Of course we are generalizing here. The are plenty of very intelligent, wealthy and well educated fat people too. For example Brain Cowen and Mary Harney.

Bonito · 26-05-2010 01:58AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It would depend on the job

A fat person would have a much better chance of getting a job as a Santa Claus in a department store than a skinny guy.

Swings and rooundabouts.

Swings are more fun. Fat people can't use them. They break them. As for roundabouts, we all know fat people can't turn 360 degrees.

starbelgrade wrote: »

I worked with a guy once who was exremely obese. He slipped in the office once, cut his leg & gravy came out.

"Excuse me while I slip in to something more comfortable"

OutlawPete · 26-05-2010 02:33AM

I think in today's society about the only thing you can be discriminatory about and get away with it, is appearance.

I can't abide to hear people be described as fat or ugly.

To hear people say:

"Why do like her, she's a fat pig.." or "She's an ugly fcuker that one.."

.. really infuriates me.

Usually the people that make these type of comments have bigger issues anyway, something no diet or plastic surgeon could ever rectify.

Duck's hoop · 26-05-2010 02:38AM

I know hoy Wou feel.

It's infuriating.

Idiots Abound.

starbelgrade · 26-05-2010 02:38AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I can't abide to hear people be described as fat or ugly.

To hear people say:

"Why do like her, she's a fat pig.." or "She's an ugly fcuker that one.."

.. really infuriates me.

Did somebody diss Candy again?

Bonito · 26-05-2010 02:40AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Did somebody diss Candy again?

You leave candy alone! :mad:

starbelgrade · 26-05-2010 02:42AM

Bonito wrote: »

You leave candy alone! :mad:

I never touched her... she's all yours.

Cypher_sounds · 26-05-2010 02:48AM

watch howard sterns opinion of the new big star of hollywood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVzv-SmPtbU&NR=1

starbelgrade · 26-05-2010 03:10AM

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

watch howard sterns opinion of the new big star of hollywood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVzv-SmPtbU&NR=1

Howard Stern is a douchebag.

RMD · 26-05-2010 07:49AM

Millicent wrote: »

And to that first point, I think if you can educate people like Jamie did, you might find a decrease in weight problems in households like those shown and I'm all in favour of it. I think that show should be shown to everyone to emphasise how easily it can be done and for far cheaper than a chipper.

As to the point about being "lazy", I'm not sure you understand the nature of depression. Depressed people don't tend to treat themselves very well (and other vices such as smoking have shown to have a slightly higher prevalence in mentally ill people). I am genuinely not lazy- I work hard at my job and at college but sometimes, any spare energy one has can be spent just trying to get out of bed. It's one of those circular things- getting healthier would improve the depression but working up the will to exercise etc. can require all one's energy. That said, I recognise that I need to do something about it and am trying to get the depression under control and am moving to sort out all the bothersome aspects of my life such as the weight.

The person I work with that I was talking about does bother me when I consider them. They originally had the onset of type 2 diabetes and were told if they controlled their diet, they would be okay (not needing to inject). A few months later, I believe they were diagnosed as type 1 IIRC. That to me is madness.

Ye I agree, there needs to be more education on food nutrition in schools. None of this "you should have 1 portion meat, 2 portions vegetables and 1 treat after" type crap, actual hands on practical work where the students are say given 5 euro and told to make a good meal from it.

I'm not putting lazy across I entirely mean it. I don't mean it in the actual definition, I mean it didn't seem you were searching for alternatives to sports you could for your flat foot. I had the exact problem. I was diagnosed with depression 4 years ago caused by a hormonal imbalance, some gland responsible for the release of serotonin or endorphins or something like that wasn't working correctly. The way I actually got a way to deal with it was through exercise, once I noticed changes about my body for the better I was extremely happy and felt a much better person. I understand though how hard it can be for some to take part in regular exercise though. If you can find half a hour a day that is all you need at most, and it will bring more happiness to you than sitting in front of the TV for the same time.

I just hope your colleague has no family. If he doesn't change his ways extremely quick, he's going to be dead in less than 20 years at most probably.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 07:53AM

segaBOY wrote: »

The Guards have stopped hiring afaik.

The department of blimp doesn't seem to have any issues about it.

ash23 · 26-05-2010 08:12AM

I have to be honest, I was very obese and now I am overweight. I'm trying to do something about it but it's a long an hard road and quite difficult to stay motivated.

Money is extra tight in this house (as in most houses) and seriously, I can see why people on super tight budgets would go for cheap crap. A large bag of oven chips in aldi is something like 70c. That would do 5 days dinners in this house. I can get one pineapple for the same price or 6 tomatoes or one tin of beans. Thats the reality.

I also struggle to find time to exercise. My diet is fairly ok but I hardly ever get any exercise. A combination of reasons really. Time constraints and just sheer exhaustion by the end of the day. And while I'm aware that exercise would probably give me more energy, it's difficult to break out of the cycle of tiredness.

Myself and my siblings were fed muck as kids. Burgers, chips...every meal was put in the deep fat fryer. We were all overweight by the time we were teens and all of us have battled with the bulge on and off since.

Food was offered as comfort, as love. It was also drilled into us to finish what was on the plate and not to waste food. These are hard lessons to get out of ones head when it's been instilled since birth.

Anyway, those are just a few reasons why someone might be obese/overweight.

Ps To the person who commented on the girl coming in and buying all the sweets when there was a lovely chicken salad sandwich available, most of those pre packed sambos are insanely high in calories. Same goes for the comment about "salad dodgers". A lot of places serve "salad" and then smother it in calorific dressing. I've given up buying salads and sandwiches and just bring my own from home because when I initially changed to "healthy" lunches, I was actually gaining weight until I began checking calorie content etc and was gobsmacked by it.
Which again, goes to show education is key.

As for the discrimination issue, I've never encountered it in employment. I got every job I ever applied for (admittedly this was in boom time).

Lando Griffin · 26-05-2010 08:25AM

I hate all discrimination especially fatism.

the_syco · 26-05-2010 09:37AM

Pride Fighter wrote: »

If a private company was paying for health insurance I'm sure they would want to be paying it for a thin, fit person rather than an overweight person.

Thin fit smoker, or a fat non-smoker?

RMD wrote: »

I have a fat friend who refuses to do exercise simply because he has "joint" pain, he's fine when exercise seems to suit him, but once you mention regular exercise to him it's "oh no I can't" and "oh but my knee".

Fat bástárds will wear their knees away if they run. This can cause pain, and may also cause early arthritis in their knees. What some of them don't realize is that this is caused by the downward pressure of their fatness on their knees. If they were to cycle, swim, or do some exercise where their weight is not focused on their knees, they can loose weight, and not f**k up their knees. Get your mate to the doc to get their knees checked out. Advise him he could end up in a wheelchair if he doesn't/

Millicent wrote: »

That to me is madness.

No, that is SPARTA SUGAR OVERLOAD!

ash23 wrote: »

A large bag of oven chips in aldi is something like 70c. That would do 5 days dinners in this house. I can get one pineapple for the same price or 6 tomatoes or one tin of beans.

And a small bag of spuds would cost a fiver.

Someone mentioned that they saw some TV program that showed how someone made a meal with €1.77... and did they buy all the saucepans and food with that money? Poor people often have here and now.

Also, some poor people from poor families may not know how to cook healthy meals.

Discrimination against people because of their surplus weight

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