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[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Comments

  • #782
    Aldebaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Aldebaran


    9
    expectationlost wrote: »
    yes but the writers said they had it all planned out and said it wasn't about purgatory

    They said the island wasn't purgatory. And it wasn't.


  • #783
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Aldebaran wrote: »
    They said the island wasn't purgatory. And it wasn't.
    your splitting words now

    they had it all planned out and said it wasn't about purgatory


  • #784
    Gerry Asstrix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭Gerry Asstrix


    Aldebaran wrote: »
    They said the island wasn't purgatory. And it wasn't.

    Then what was point of it?


  • #785
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    9
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    But Locke wasn't there when Jack met him so how could that be the case?

    Each person existed. Each life story was different, but it wasn't real. They were there but not really there.


  • #786
    Ann22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,005 ✭✭✭Ann22


    Deleting my post 'cos I've discovered the answers I want and I don't want to irritate anyone who has persistently and patiently answered the same questions over and over again.


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  • #787
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    9
    Gerry Asstrix wrote: »
    Still doesnt make sense, why isnt Frank, Miles, Richard, Walt, Michael in the church, are they still in purgatory?

    They were obviously not ready to move on.


  • #788
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    7
    jimbling wrote:
    Missing the point Mr. Nice Guy. Yes, he was there, but he only existed to fulfil John Lockes "Purgatory" life. Helen too it seems.
    He wasn't there in the sense of waiting to move on etc.

    Again, Jacks son does not exist, never did, never will.


    It's a bit confusing, and naturally doesn't really make any sense. What other worldly / purgatory / heaven stories ever do.

    But Anthony Cooper did exist, unlike Jack's son. Surely Anthony Cooper is there because he has to atone to some extent too?


  • #789
    RolandIRL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,924 ✭✭✭✭RolandIRL


    7
    Ann22 wrote: »
    What was it then? I can't understand it. Why was Ben there too, he was on the island in the first place...and the Dharma inititiave? Who in the fcuk were they?
    the island was real, but we don't know exactly what it was. the alternate "timeline" was purgatory.

    the dharma folk were people who came to the island to study and exploit the EM energy under the island. Ben came with the dharma folk


  • #790
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,371 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Ann22 wrote: »
    Just after watching, I still have to read through this thread...maybe it's been mentioned already but in case it hasn't, can someone please tell me 'what the fcuk is Desmond's Penny doing there?' She wasn't on the b*stard plane..and I passionately hate her in Flash Forward...her and her big silly square face:mad:.
    What about Charles Widmore and them soldiers, what about the others???? What about Walt and Michael. I'm going to cry I'm so disappointed. What a b*staring cop out of a fcukin' ending:mad:. I want a crying smiley to express my feelings.:(:(:(

    Penny is there cause she was important to desmond and desmond was important to her - they wanted to move on together, and they were drawn to that. What about widmore and the soldiers? They were killed by Fake Locke on the island and were not, in any way, close to the main losties - so they shouldn't be there when they all move on (in the same way Eloise wasn't there at the end, or Charlotte etc - it wasn't their time to move on, and it wasn't their place to move on either.

    Also, Michael - or so i am told by my brother, can't remember it myself, said to Hugo a few eps back that he was a lost soul that couldn't let go. His time was not with the losties, just as Walts was not - Michael would probably wait for Walt, and Walt would have his own 'important part of life' and people he shared that with, having left the island early and young, so his time and place to move on would differ.

    Purgatory would not end for everyone at the same time. Some would need more time to adjust and accept, and prepare


  • #791
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    so there was no explanation of the Island? whats it for? what it does? what it stands for?


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  • #792
    jimbling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭jimbling


    7
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    But Locke wasn't there when Jack met him so how could that be the case?

    Ah, I see what you're getting at. hmmm...ill have to think more on that. I'm tired, and have a load of presentations to give tomorrow....wasted enough of my work day already.

    At a guess:
    It's a combined purgatory... it was created by them, for them. John Locke's father did exist in that world, but he wasn't a real person in it in the sense that Locke/Jack /hurly were. He isn't there waiting to get to the other side.

    If that were the case, then you'd be missing loads of people. They exist because the core group need them to exist. It's their world.


  • #793
    Gerry Asstrix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭Gerry Asstrix


    prinz wrote: »
    They were obviously not ready to move on.

    Or perhaps the actors said 'not a chance in hell Im touching that lame ass show again'


  • #794
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    9
    Ann22 wrote: »
    What was it then? I can't understand it.

    It was an island. Just a magic island.
    Ann22 wrote: »
    Why was Ben there too, he was on the island in the first place...

    The time on the island with the losties was the defining part of his life.
    Ann22 wrote: »
    .and the Dharma inititiave? Who in the fcuk were they?

    Scientists, hippies, experimental community. Just regular people.


  • #795
    Jay Ru
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Jay Ru


    4
    jimbling wrote: »
    Possibly, but that doesn't really add up. His Dad being healthy would have made more sense. i.e. All Locke ever wanted was to get along with his dad.
    He did in his Purgatory life, but obviously then the accident happened.

    Not sure it needs to be looked into that much really    .

    Don't start painting over the cracks mate, u'll be older than Richard by the time ur finished.


  • #796
    irish_stevo815
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,609 ✭✭✭irish_stevo815


    8
    Just finished watching it now. sorry if i'm bringin things up already answered, but i didnt really feel like readin thru 52 pages.

    so anyway, i thought it was a good solid 2 hours of TV. Really loved the fight between Jack & Locke, and gettin a good answer to Jack's neck bleeding. I didnt think the whole Sawyer/Juliet thing was handled well, it seemed to just happen all of a sudden, the same as Sayid & Shannon i suppose.

    So would i be right in saying that the whole flash-sideways was actually purgatory or something? which of course could all be like 100 years later as Christians states "there is no now here."
    If that's the case, then how do we explain the under water island at the start of the season?

    I think the end scene was very fitting as it was the exact opposite to the first scene in the Pilot.

    I wonder if Frank, Sawyer & Co. made it off the island? And would have loved to have seen Hurley in Jacob mode.


  • #797
    jimbling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭jimbling


    7
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    But Anthony Cooper did exist, unlike Jack's son. Surely Anthony Cooper is there because he has to atone to some extent too?


    It's not about atoning at all. The losties are not there to atone for anything. There just there waiting until they're all ready to move on to the next world.


  • #798
    JDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 184 ✭✭JDee


    9
    Gerry Asstrix wrote: »
    Then what was point of it?

    Gerry "12 posts" Asstrix are you a troll?

    *tickles Gerry*

    you are arent you?

    coochie coochie coo!


  • #799
    jimbling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭jimbling


    7
    Jay Ru wrote: »
    Don't start painting over the cracks mate, u'll be older than Richard by the time ur finished.

    lol, Jay Ru, I'm not taking the bait..... if you think the fact that Lockes dad is in a vegetated state in the "purgatory" world is a crack then off with you. :p


  • #800
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    9
    jimbling wrote: »
    I don't think so.

    The "Purgatory" as we are calling it was created by all the people for whom the island was of ultimate importance. Lockes dad is not really there, he's just filler for Lockes "Purgatory".

    EDIT: Jack doesn't even have a son!!!!

    Most characters in the FST/Purgatory seem to have gotten something they wanted going on the island but for the most part dont seem to be fulfilled. Jack has sorted out some of his Daddy issues by having a good relationship with his son but is still trying to fix everything, Locke has a good relationship with his father but this still lead him to be in a wheelchair, Sawyer is a "good guy" but still wants revenge, Des has the respect of Widmore but no Penny, Sayid has Nadia in his life but shes with his brother, Sun & Jin are happy together but on the run from Suns father, Hurley's lucky but has no Libby. There are small differences in all their lives so I wouldnt get too stuck on David.

    On a separate point to above this thread is actually like being stuck in a time loop. The same questions/points. People really need read at least part of the thread before posting something thats made a page or two before.


  • #801
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    7
    jimbling wrote: »
    It's not about atoning at all. The losties are not there to atone for anything. There just there waiting until they're all ready to move on to the next world.

    Um, Ben?


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  • #802
    Knifey Spoony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭Knifey Spoony


    9
    I have to say that I am glad that I invested so much time in this show over the last six years. After reading through most of the tread the episode make some sense now and I don't think that they could have ended the show in any other manner. Also, kind of glad that they didn't try to explain everything in the last episode, would have ruined and it is typical lost to leave the viewers guessing.

    Can't believe it is over now. There will never be another show that can create such mystery, suspence and great characters.


  • #803
    lmaopml
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    9
    Gerry Asstrix wrote: »
    Im guessign thats Desmonds purpose was to enter the light, which Im assuming is raw electromagnitism??? and he is immune to that, so he could pull out a large rock that puts it out, and then Jack the new Jacob can finally kill 'man in black'(who still remains a mystery), and then go back and put the rock back in place to get the light going again before he dies???

    Still doesnt make sense, why isnt Frank, Miles, Richard, Walt, Michael in the church, are they still in purgatory?

    Remember last week Desmond told Hurley when he recognised the police lady ( can't remember her name on the show ) that she 'wasn't ready yet', after Hurley asked 'Is she coming too'? ...I don't think they can move on until their ready...Sure Ben decided to 'hang out' a while..lol...

    It's all mad, but deadly too...


  • #804
    ziedth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,081 ✭✭✭ziedth


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    Locke had to forgive himself for what happened to his dad, in order to have his paralysis fixed, which led to him letting go of that stage of the after life. Maybe that is the explanation. Maybe Locke's dad was the anchor keeping Locke from moving on.

    I think this is the best reason although I would kinda prefer that he was being punished even by Locke.

    I would imagine walt and michael weren't there because they had each other same with mr echo and his brother. Jacks dad said nobody does it alone just because those lostoes chose to travel together doesn't mean they have to. Like ben, Charlotte, alex, danny all decided to leave later on.

    And then maybe sone will never be ready look at the cop, (name escapes me anna lucia) desmond even said she isn't ready.


  • #805
    jimbling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭jimbling


    7
    Foxtrol wrote: »
    Most characters in the FST/Purgatory seem to have gotten something they wanted going on the island but for the most part dont seem to be fulfilled. Jack has sorted out some of his Daddy issues by having a good relationship with his son but is still trying to fix everything, Locke has a good relationship with his father but this still lead him to be in a wheelchair, Sawyer is a "good guy" but still wants revenge, Des has the respect of Widmore but no Penny, Sayid has Nadia in his life but shes with his brother, Sun & Jin are happy together but on the run from Suns father, Hurley's lucky but has no Libby. There are small differences in all their lives so I wouldnt get too stuck on David.
    .

    I wasn't stuck on David at all. I was just using it to point out that Anthony Cooper didnt matter either. Neither were real.
    I thought Lockes absolute statement of that was pretty convincing on the matter.

    But I have been wrong before :D


  • #806
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,095 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    5
    Not satisfied at all. :mad:


  • #807
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    9
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Um, Ben?

    The time on the island with the losties was the most important in Ben's life that's why he's there.


  • #808
    jimbling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭jimbling


    7
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Um, Ben?

    He's not atoning for anything. From what I can see he went on to live a very productive life as Hurleys number two on the island.

    All ben said is that he wasn't ready to move on. There could be a number of reasons, but the most glaringly obvious is that he wanted to stay and help his new found friends to move on too. i.e. he wanted to move on with Alex, not the losties.


  • #809
    blandatious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭blandatious


    A query: Claire's baby (aaron) i think was in the church at the end.
    This would mean Aaron died as a baby i think. During the time when
    Kate returned to the US Aaron had become a young boy. I think we are
    working on the theory that they did actually leave the island and return
    and only the FST scenes did not actually occur. A lot of "i think"'s there
    but has anyone any opinion on this? Is there an explanation i am overlooking?


  • #810
    jimbling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭jimbling


    7
    must ..... turn.... off..... computer....
    must ..... stop ..... posting.....


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  • #811
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    8
    Well for starters I thought it was a very good finish with my usual misgivings. I've always been uncomfortable with the Faith v Science as I don't give a jot about faith tbh as I personally believe it invites stupidity but thats the way the writers wanted to go and it didn't spoil the show as a whole for me. I'm not going to complain about the lack of answers for the most part. I've accepted from a long time back that they weren't coming and series 6 has only confirmed that. Anyway...

    Answers or the lack of them

    As I have said I accept we were never going to get many answers in terms of the mysteries of the island but theres nothing wrong with a quick explanation from certain characters to explain why they believe what they believe. You know if Jacob had said the Island contains great power that they have never fully understood but they have witnessed certain events and knowledge has been passed along that convinces him it must not be unleashed etc. etc. People come to study it, foolishly believe they can harness it and so on. Yoda would have explained that much. You might say that he essentially said these things in parts but he didn't say it in it's entirity to his candidates. We are back to the "go kill those people, they are evil and you must protect the island" faith based angle yet again. Somebody should have said go spin on it.

    Purgatory

    I didn't really mind this too much. A few issues maybe. Christian to his son - "the most important part of your life was the time that you spent with those people" - maybe he should have ended that line with "well except for Penny so most of them".

    Desmond seeing Purgatory and thinking it's a different possible life they can have. The misunderstanding is fine but being able to see it is a real jump for me. Fair enough it's all science fiction but it's a very different thing within the context of whats happening to people to be able to see the future versus being able to see the afterlife.

    The best parallel to the purgatory explanation I think is the Nexus (I think that was it's name) from Star Trek Generations. They all enter it when they die (at different points in time) but they all arrive at the same time (because time really doesn't matter) and once you get there your life is almost perfect and you need to be reminded of who you really were and the life you really led.

    We all saw it as each character having a moment where they remembered the island but what we weren't shown was that they were also remembering that they were dead. Jack took longer because he kept pulling away from the moment until finally he touched the coffin and let it all flow.

    It's all about the Characters

    Yes it was one of the strengths of the show and the end was quite emotional but I'm not quite with those people using it as the out for not explaining certain things. The mysteries were experienced by these characters, had significant impact on their lives and the growth of their character so the mysteries don't stop being significant or belong as mere background noise just because the show is simply about the characters.

    The Overall Plan or lack of it

    I'm sure the writers had an overall idea but it changed and went off on so many tangents that there is simply no way we saw what was originally intended or planned. If people have "faith" they did and stuck to it then fair enough. The writing for the purgatory stuff was good enough to suggest to me that it was part of the plan from the beginning but maybe not in the way it ended up.

    Finally

    Yep MiB went off a little too easily in the end for me but nothing that ruined it. When the plane took off I half expected to see John Locke lying on the rocks with a remote detonator smiling grimly to himself and suddenly we realise everyone dies right here right now but perhaps a good thing it didn't.

    Of all the emotional moments I think the one that resonated most for me was Jack saying "see you in another life brother" to Desmond. So see you all in another life brothers.


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