Possible social welfare cuts in Ireland?

harr · 24-05-2010 01:40PM

dan_d wrote: »

To be fair, someone in your position should be means tested for a higher allowance, as a seperate thing altogether. You shouldn't be tied into only the dole - possibly remove the dole as your allowance and tie you into a HSE administered scheme.....in an ideal world, obviously, where we have a properly run system.Surely you should have some sort of carer's allowance.

dole cares allowance nearly all the same money.i have put in for carers allowance which is means teated,i should get it, there only 10 euro in the differenace but a tener is tener at the end of the day.we were told last year that we were earning to much for a medical card for our young lad we got it after a fight ,on that day we had meeting for medical card i had to get a lend of 10 euro for petrol and then i had to sit there for them to tell me we had to much money to get a card. some country this is.:mad:

24-05-2010 02:55PM

unamused wrote: »

my spends from 196 p/w

30 euro on esb bill per week
30 euro on tv bill per week
30 euro on gas bill per week
30 euro towards rent per week
50 euro on food shopping per week
and 16euro a week to get to and from hospital to see my sick mam
its a very tight budget

My advice, move somewhere cheaper. I'm guessing your 30 is on top of rent allowance and so you're definitely either living in a nicer place than you can afford and you should consider moving into somewhere cheaper or should be negotiating your rent down.

Your tv/esb/gas bills are mental. And to complain about how your dole doesn't go far enough is laughable.

douglashyde · 24-05-2010 03:09PM

My own two cents on this matter:

My problem with job seekers allowance is I know alot of people that claim: " Why would I take a job and only get paid a little bit more than on the dole"

My solution: Give out a fair chunk of the allowance as food and fuel stamps, also make people apply to jobs through an online portal page; which of course can be monitored by SW.

Being on job seekers allowance should not be a desirable thing.

ntlbell · 24-05-2010 03:21PM

unamused wrote: »

my spends from 196 p/w

30 euro on esb bill per week
30 euro on tv bill per week
30 euro on gas bill per week
30 euro towards rent per week
50 euro on food shopping per week
and 16euro a week to get to and from hospital to see my sick mam
its a very tight budget

too high too high too high.

Basic NTL is 25e a month, why are you spending 120e a month? why do you event have NTL? get rid of it.

Your ESB sounds VERY high, reduce it.

summer is near you shouldn't need to be spending 30e a week on gas.

reduce it.

50e a week is a lot for a single person to spend on food.

You should be able to get by on 25-30e probably less if you put a bit of effort in.

Max Power1 · 24-05-2010 03:28PM

ntlbell wrote: »

too high too high too high.

Basic NTL is 25e a month, why are you spending 120e a month? why do you event have NTL? get rid of it.

Your ESB sounds VERY high, reduce it.

summer is near you shouldn't need to be spending 30e a week on gas.

reduce it.

50e a week is a lot for a single person to spend on food.

You should be able to get by on 25-30e probably less if you put a bit of effort in.

tbf I think I may just suspect the legitimacy of the post by unamused.

I (an employed male, in my 20s) dont spend a quarter of what he does on gas and electricity and food. I was on the dole last year and easily managed to save €25-€50 per week. With rent allowance etc, the dole is WAY too much.

Tora Bora · 24-05-2010 03:29PM

ntlbell wrote: »

too high too high too high.

Basic NTL is 25e a month, why are you spending 120e a month? why do you event have NTL? get rid of it.

Your ESB sounds VERY high, reduce it.

summer is near you shouldn't need to be spending 30e a week on gas.

reduce it.

50e a week is a lot for a single person to spend on food.

You should be able to get by on 25-30e probably less if you put a bit of effort in.

Dead right. He / she, wouldn't have such a poor grip on money if it was earned through hard work, as opposed to handed out by the state. Moral of story, there should be no such thing as dole or unemployment benefit!
Should have to work to get the income. There's lots that need doing. If a person is out working, they cannot be at home using ESB and gas, carelessly.

RichardAnd · 24-05-2010 03:37PM

unamused wrote: »

my spends from 196 p/w

30 euro on esb bill per week
30 euro on tv bill per week
30 euro on gas bill per week
30 euro towards rent per week
50 euro on food shopping per week
and 16euro a week to get to and from hospital to see my sick mam
its a very tight budget

As a master of saving money, here's what I would do in your situation:

30 euro on esb bill per week: Not sure how to advise here. Lights are not the big users of power, TVs, computers and fridges are. One trick I've seen people use, and this will sound almost from the scourge school of saving, is to not use a fridge in winter. Instead, they keep perishables outside in a box. Sounds laughable but no fridge will cut the bill.

30 euro on tv bill per week: This sounds way off. My advice is to dump the cable and go without TV. Most shows can be watched online anyway nd most these days are brain rotting rubbish.

30 euro on gas bill per week: Granted, alot of this could be from cooking but when winter rolls back, don't turn your heating on unless you REALLY have to. If you feel cold, go for a walk or a run and you will feel warmer. OVer time, you'll develop a tolerance for cold which will actually benefit your health as you'll be less susceptible to colds.

30 euro towards rent per week: This sounds about right to be honest for a simple room in a shared house. Not much I could say here.

50 euro on food shopping per week: I don't know if you are on your own but if you are, this I can offer advice on. If you ditch variety you can save money. A bag of spuds can last two weeks and is very good food. Add to this, cans of tuna (protien) and cheap Tesco fruit and you will get alot of what you need. It will be boring but it will trim that 50 euro down nicely. Also consider cooking in bulk to save on gas.

Living like this may seem overtly frugal but it's actually a better way to live. Your simple diet will aid your health and having less TV channels to watch will encourage you to read or do something else worthwhile. The best thing is that it gives you a habit of living simply so that when you get another job, you can save like a fiend in case you find yourself unemployed again.

I save 60 - 70% of my earnings. Not for a house, not for a car but simple because you never know when you'll need it.

DidierMc · 24-05-2010 03:45PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Dead right. He / she, wouldn't have such a poor grip on money if it was earned through hard work, as opposed to handed out by the state. Moral of story, there should be no such thing as dole or unemployment benefit!
Should have to work to get the income. There's lots that need doing. If a person is out working, they cannot be at home using ESB and gas, carelessly.

Right and what are your plans to create work?

DidierMc · 24-05-2010 03:46PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

As a master of saving money, here's what I would do in your situation:

30 euro on esb bill per week: Not sure how to advise here. Lights are not the big users of power, TVs, computers and fridges are. One trick I've seen people use, and this will sound almost from the scourge school of saving, is to not use a fridge in winter. Instead, they keep perishables outside in a box. Sounds laughable but no fridge will cut the bill.

30 euro on tv bill per week: This sounds way off. My advice is to dump the cable and go without TV. Most shows can be watched online anyway nd most these days are brain rotting rubbish.

30 euro on gas bill per week: Granted, alot of this could be from cooking but when winter rolls back, don't turn your heating on unless you REALLY have to. If you feel cold, go for a walk or a run and you will feel warmer. OVer time, you'll develop a tolerance for cold which will actually benefit your health as you'll be less susceptible to colds.

30 euro towards rent per week: This sounds about right to be honest for a simple room in a shared house. Not much I could say here.

50 euro on food shopping per week: I don't know if you are on your own but if you are, this I can offer advice on. If you ditch variety you can save money. A bag of spuds can last two weeks and is very good food. Add to this, cans of tuna (protien) and cheap Tesco fruit and you will get alot of what you need. It will be boring but it will trim that 50 euro down nicely. Also consider cooking in bulk to save on gas.

Living like this may seem overtly frugal but it's actually a better way to live. Your simple diet will aid your health and having less TV channels to watch will encourage you to read or do something else worthwhile. The best thing is that it gives you a habit of living simply so that when you get another job, you can save like a fiend in case you find yourself unemployed again.

I save 60 - 70% of my earnings. Not for a house, not for a car but simple because you never know when you'll need it.

Alright scrooge what about things like phone credit, clothes, transport and entertainment? Is a person on the dole allowed have a social life?

24-05-2010 03:50PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Alright scrooge what about things like phone credit, clothes, transport and entertainment? Is a person on the dole allowed have a social life?

20 euros phone credit gives you free texts for the month on many providers. Clothes are cheap when you look around. Should someone on the dole be able to afford name-brand clothes? Transport can also be taken care of by buying tickets instead of overspending with coins each time.

Define a social life? Pub/Clubs aren't the only social life you can have, you know. There's plenty of stuff to do with your day that doesn't involve spending 50 quid in a pub.

DidierMc · 24-05-2010 03:54PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

20 euros phone credit gives you free texts for the month on many providers. Clothes are cheap when you look around. Should someone on the dole be able to afford name-brand clothes? Transport can also be taken care of by buying tickets instead of overspending with coins each time.

Define a social life? Pub/Clubs aren't the only social life you can have, you know. There's plenty of stuff to do with your day that doesn't involve spending 50 quid in a pub.

Well what is acceptable spending per week for an uneployed person on things like transport, clothes, food and social activites? Is it acceptable to spend €7 on a dinner?

j4vier · 24-05-2010 03:59PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Dead right. He / she, wouldn't have such a poor grip on money if it was earned through hard work, as opposed to handed out by the state. Moral of story, there should be no such thing as dole or unemployment benefit!
Should have to work to get the income. There's lots that need doing. If a person is out working, they cannot be at home using ESB and gas, carelessly.

could you imagine 900k people out of a population of 6 million living on the street..you'd be looking at riots then..even if you had the luck of having an income, anything of value will more than likely be robbed

RichardAnd · 24-05-2010 04:01PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Alright scrooge what about things like phone credit, clothes, transport and entertainment? Is a person on the dole allowed have a social life?

There is more to life than socialising. I merely offered a man some advice on how to cut his expenditure and you responded rather aggressively I must say.

And besides, if someone is on the dole it is highly likely that a social life will be the last thing on their mind. Despute if you will but I would point you towards the hierarchy of Needs.

Well what is acceptable spending per week for an uneployed person on things like transport, clothes, food and social activites? Is it acceptable to spend €7 on a dinner?

Yes it is acceptable. If you are unemployed you should not be eating out.

DidierMc · 24-05-2010 04:12PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

There is more to life than socialising. I merely offered a man some advice on how to cut his expenditure and you responded rather aggressively I must say.

And besides, if someone is on the dole it is highly likely that a social life will be the last thing on their mind. Despute if you will but I would point you towards the hierarchy of Needs.

Yes it is acceptable. If you are unemployed you should not be eating out.

Maybe give him some advice on how to spend his time. What is he allowed do when he's not looking for jobs?

ntlbell · 24-05-2010 04:20PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Is a person on the dole allowed have a social life?

absolutely, socialising doesn't have to mean spending money.

Your mentality is a perfect example of what needs to change.

People on the dole or not.

Live within your means.

ntlbell · 24-05-2010 04:25PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Maybe give him some advice on how to spend his time. What is he allowed do when he's not looking for jobs?

Invest some time in himself?

make himself more employable?

learn a language?

learn a new skill?

volunteer work?

read a book on how to manage a budget?

DidierMc · 24-05-2010 04:29PM

ntlbell wrote: »

absolutely, socialising doesn't have to mean spending money.

Your mentality is a perfect example of what needs to change.

People on the dole or not.

Live within your means.

Yes but do you support cutting peoples means even more?

ntlbell · 24-05-2010 04:36PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Yes but do you support cutting peoples means even more?

I support giving people enough money to live until they can support a level of lifestyle they wish through their own means.

That doesn't involve buying them pints or entry to night clubs to "socialise"

Paying for TV packages.

Servicing debt.

etc etc

The current levels of social welfare are too high and unsustainable.

with the levels of deflation seen over the last while, if anything people on the social have had the equivalent of an increase in their weekly disposable income.

DidierMc · 24-05-2010 04:41PM

ntlbell wrote: »

I support giving people enough money to live until they can support a level of lifestyle they wish through their own means.

That doesn't involve buying them pints or entry to night clubs to "socialise"

Paying for TV packages.

Servicing debt.

etc etc

The current levels of social welfare are too high and unsustainable.

with the levels of deflation seen over the last while, if anything people on the social have had the equivalent of an increase in their weekly disposable income.

I've yet to see this deflation in action regarding bills. Just because you can buy 2 lion bars for €1 doesn't mean there is deflation.

ntlbell · 24-05-2010 04:47PM

DidierMc wrote: »

I've yet to see this deflation in action regarding bills. Just because you can buy 2 lion bars for €1 doesn't mean there is deflation.

What bills are you referring to?

If you haven't noticed the price of _real_ food dropping in the shopping markets around the country over the last two years, I'm not sure anything I tell you will help?

Maybe you keep your shopping receipts for your weekly/monthly shops

have a look at them and see, if you still can't figure it out, scan them in and post them here, I'm sure many posters will show you were your going wrong.

even before you talk about actuall deflation, companies like airtricity and board gais are offering up to 13% discounts moving from ESB?

Interest rates are at an all time low for the vast majority of mortgage holders.

What bills do you not see a difference in?

post who you're with and the costs and I'm sure people will find you a better deal.

24-05-2010 04:51PM

DidierMc wrote: »

I've yet to see this deflation in action regarding bills. Just because you can buy 2 lion bars for €1 doesn't mean there is deflation.

Define 'bills'. Most people will only have an electricity/gas bill and there are already people in the market offering lower electricity prices.

Are you on the dole? Do you want to share your average outgoings with us?

One thing I've done is joined a gym, it's 275 euros in my local gym for 6 months. I've gained lots of muscle and am feeling a million times more energetic. I guarantee in my next interview (whenever that comes

) I will give off the impression of someone who takes their health seriously, who works hard, and who is full of energy.

I took an access course in History and Politics last year to improve my education. I'm reading more.

What is someone who spends all their money on TV packages/expensive food/pubs (or "socialising" as it's being called here) going to say they've been doing with their lives for the last few months/years?

unamused · 24-05-2010 04:53PM

honestly not making this s**t up im paying for two people on 196 per week as social wont give partner JSA due to not enough credits paid (who was self employed but never made much i was main bread winner) we have appealed
so glad its getting warmer so gas bill yeah have cut the tv channels but yet again there are numerous charges for doing that but im not cutting it completely or my broadband as what else do you do when on dole and no prospect of a job i might as well get the razor blades out now
and can i just say im loving the lack of compassion thats so prominent in irish society today really and truly gone are the days when we as a people stuck together and helped each other out no wonder the country is in the **** it is with everyone just concerned about themselves

ntlbell · 24-05-2010 04:57PM

unamused wrote: »

honestly not making this s**t up im paying for two people on 196 per week as social wont give partner JSA due to not enough credits paid (who was self employed but never made much i was main bread winner) we have appealed
so glad its getting warmer so gas bill yeah have cut the tv channels but yet again there are numerous charges for doing that but im not cutting it completely or my broadband as what else do you do when on dole and no prospect of a job i might as well get the razor blades out now
and can i just say im loving the lack of compassion thats so prominent in irish society today really and truly gone are the days when we as a people stuck together and helped each other out no wonder the country is in the **** it is with everyone just concerned about themselves

Nonsense, People are giving you advice on reducing your outgoings, why would they bother if they didn't care?

Your saying you won't cut the TV or broadband because you will have nothing to do, you have been given more advice on what to do.

Get out and learn some skills, volunteer, offer to do something you have never done before.

Invest more time in yourself and less time in corrination street and people might have a bit more compassion.

christ all mighty.

RichardAnd · 24-05-2010 05:02PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Maybe give him some advice on how to spend his time. What is he allowed do when he's not looking for jobs?

I honestly think you're just looking for a fight but seeing as you asked.

HE could turn of the TV and read a book. There are thousands of wonderful classics in Libraries that no one reads simply because they have so much junk on TV to distract them. To be honest, if people read real books instead of some saucy pile of garbage and listened to real music instead of Jedward there might not have even been a recession.

But that's another thing altogether. As someone else has states, you have a mind set that to have fun, one needs to spend money and you also seem to think that that is some sort of entitlement.

unamused · 24-05-2010 05:03PM

ntlbell wrote: »

Nonsense, People are giving you advice on reducing your outgoings, why would they bother if they didn't care?

Your saying you won't cut the TV or broadband because you will have nothing to do, you have been given more advice on what to do.

Get out and learn some skills, volunteer, offer to do something you have never done before.

Invest more time in yourself and less time in corrination street and people might have a bit more compassion.

christ all mighty.

oh thats right people are going to employ a seven month pregnant woman and i am qualified an accountant to be exact and i do not intend to be in this position very long oh and btw if you volunteer while on jsa you get cut off and if you can read i did cut my tv and have more charges incurred due to this

dan_d · 24-05-2010 05:06PM

unamused wrote: »

honestly not making this s**t up im paying for two people on 196 per week as social wont give partner JSA due to not enough credits paid (who was self employed but never made much i was main bread winner) we have appealed
so glad its getting warmer so gas bill yeah have cut the tv channels but yet again there are numerous charges for doing that but im not cutting it completely or my broadband as what else do you do when on dole and no prospect of a job i might as well get the razor blades out now
and can i just say im loving the lack of compassion thats so prominent in irish society today really and truly gone are the days when we as a people stuck together and helped each other out no wonder the country is in the **** it is with everyone just concerned about themselves

Unamused I don't understand what's costing you so much.
I live in a 4 bed house with my partner. ESB and GAS are 100eur each for 2 months. The highest they rose to in the winter was about 160eur each - for 2 months.That's 40eur each a month, at most. We pay about 110-115eur a week in groceries....and I know that we are buying stuff we don't need and a few luxury items-extra biscuits and stuff. I did a shop last week however, for 80eur, and it's doing both of us for the week and if we aren't buying little extras it usually comes out about 85eur a week. Sky costs 25eur a month. Broadband and phone is 40eur a month......and that's the total bill, that's not per person.
I'm a bit confused about what you're doing. I've posted before that I'm losing my job shortly, and to be honest, my biggest worry is maintaining insurance payments every month for house insurance/life insurance etc. I'm less worried about the bills mentioned above, as I'm fairly confident I'll be able to afford them.
Odd.

ntlbell · 24-05-2010 05:08PM

unamused wrote: »

oh thats right people are going to employ a seven month pregnant woman and i am qualified an accountant to be exact and i do not intend to be in this position very long oh and btw if you volunteer while on jsa you get cut off and if you can read i did cut my tv and have more charges incurred due to this

No, they probably wouldn't hire a 7 month pregnant woman :rolleyes: but AFAIK pregnancy only last 9 months :rolleyes:

Contact your social welfare office on the volunteering, my understanding is if your available and activley looking for work you will get your JSA how they could cut the JSA for volunteering a few hours on a Sunday is beyond me, as the JSA doesn't include Sunday.

rightwingdub · 24-05-2010 09:57PM

McCruiskeen wrote: »

I really hope you are joking because if you are not this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard on boards.

and there are a lot of nutjobs around here.

I'm not, its a question of basic morality when able bodied couples have never worked and they decide to breed more kids knowing that the tax payer has to cough off for their years of permanently sponging off the state.

Welease · 24-05-2010 10:55PM

DidierMc wrote: »

Yes but do you support cutting peoples means even more?

If memory serves, you are against the CP agreement and the attempted reforms of the public sector.. correct? In fact, I believe you wanted the PS expanded, and to keep their premium pay and benefits.

If so, then how do you suggest we continue to keep up the Social Welfare payments, when we have an evaporting tax base, and we haven't delivered the savings available in the PS that could save billions (which could fund social etc.)?

The_Honeybadger · 25-05-2010 12:28AM

rightwingdub wrote: »

-Any unemployed couple who have seldom or never worked and the female becomes pregnant should have their kids taken off them and placed in foster care (I'm not referring to couples who have lost their jobs in the last 2 years)

Holy s**t, do you really believe this? is this not a bit severe, it's not the kids fault if their parents don't work. Perhaps sterilisation, along the same lines as China would be a more appropriate course of action for the long term unemployed, then we'd eliminate the cost of fostering their unwanted kids also

Possible social welfare cuts in Ireland?

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