Nice guys, are you one? were you one?

Pherekydes · 18-05-2010 07:05PM

CDfm wrote: »

"do not [...]mess with ye stalke"

.

Nice guys don't do this. :pac:

SugarHigh · 18-05-2010 07:26PM

liah wrote: »

It's a shame what Thaedydal posted is so long, as not many people will actually finish it, but it is so, so, SO damn true.

Agree 100% with whoever wrote that. 110%. That type of nice guy drives me nuts, and I can definitely tell the difference between a legitimately nice guy and a nice guy like the one in that blog post.

Now if only all these self-proclaimed "nice guys" would just read it and cop the hell on and stop making wild accusations about the type of men women go for.. oh, a girl can only dream.

I think most guys go through the phase she described.

BLACKEN · 18-05-2010 07:45PM

Yeh i'd say i was once like that "nice guy" but to be honest it just don't work most of the time! and as for the idea of changing into an asshole!? Well yeh you could do that but then your no better than the assholes in every bar or on every corner of the country!

So the question is.......... What do you do??

Firstly most of these nice guys........ well there just that too NICE,
like i hold doors open for a girl! Why not??? but what i won't do is let her cry on my shoulder when that dickhead of a bf is giving her ****! **** THAT! Just look her in the eye like a MAN and tell her YOUR better than him! Its a coinfidence thing.

Every guy will realised that they have to be more like a dickhead to get the girl they deserved, i'm a hard working guy who truly deserves a decent chance with the ladies i knew there was a happy middle place. Women are attracted to the confident, cocky and entertaining to be around part of these dickheads not the other unfortunate bull**** parts of them.

This whole nice guy thing well its just hardwired into some guys often by there parents, relatives who say you have to treat a girl with respect etc.

Yes thats true but you got to show a girl that not only are you a gentleman but also fun and full of excitement! The simple thing to do is combine the best parts of these types of personalities! Not only do you not change who you are you also improve yourself!

speedboatchase · 18-05-2010 08:21PM

I probably was a "nice guy" in the first big relationships, mainly because I was really afraid of losing the person I was with and over-compensating. In truth though it depends on how you treat certain people, I'm sure some women I (and not really proud of) "used" when I was single would think I'm bad, but I'm sure my gf thinks I'm nice

Although I do assert myself and stand my ground a lot more than I would have in the past, definitely

Dinkie · 18-05-2010 08:29PM

Somebody just posting in food and drink looking for ways to increase he celery intake :rolleyes:

I go out with a 'nice guy'. he is wonderful.... so nice guys do sometimes get the girl.

I bet a lot of the nice guys never tell the girl that they actually like them. Girls are not mind readers!

Rented Mule · 18-05-2010 09:01PM

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html

Whew ....you should have served lunch in the middle of that article

lol

Very honest and open article from the author.

TitoPuente · 18-05-2010 10:25PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

Whew ....you should have served lunch in the middle of that article lol

Very honest and open article from the author.

Misandry really.

G-Money · 18-05-2010 10:48PM

I kind of used to suffer from this affliction. I'd be too nice a few times sort of had to listen to girls bang on about some other guy that they liked. I'm just at the point now though where I don't bother with it anymore. Don't get me wrong, I think I'm a decent enough person and I try to treat people well. But I'm simply not interested in hearing any girl (whether I fancy her or not) go on about whatever guy she's seeing, or not seeing or whatever. As soon as I hear the conversation drift towards that, I zone out and make my escape.

SugarHigh · 18-05-2010 10:50PM

Dinkie wrote: »

Somebody just posting in food and drink looking for ways to increase he celery intake :rolleyes:

I go out with a 'nice guy'. he is wonderful.... so nice guys do sometimes get the girl.

I bet a lot of the nice guys never tell the girl that they actually like them. Girls are not mind readers!

the_syco · 19-05-2010 12:18AM

d'Oracle wrote: »

That is rubbish

Could well be. Still have no idea how to act like an asshole, though.

minidazzler · 19-05-2010 12:25AM

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html

Having read that whole thing...which was REALLY long...I realised I have been the Nice Guy in the past, never really actually noticed it until now!! I don't think I am generally that type of person, but I have been that guy a few times it seems!

Scarinae · 19-05-2010 12:55AM

TitoPuente wrote: »

Misandry really.

Did you actually read the whole thing? How is it misandry, there is no evidence of her hating men, just creepy behaviour exhibited by some men which they try to claim proves that they are 'Nice'

TitoPuente · 19-05-2010 01:07AM

Fishie wrote: »

Did you actually read the whole thing?

Yes.

Fishie wrote: »

How is it misandry, there is no evidence of her hating men, just creepy behaviour exhibited by some men which they try to claim proves that they are 'Nice'

It reads as one side of a story to me. And how exactly is poor personal hygiene specific to these "Nice Guys" that she's categorised? How is it even relevant to her point? She seems to talk about it a lot as if to demonise certain men that she didn't like enough by essentially calling them 'smelly'. Very mature.

I wouldn't consider myself a "Nice Guy" or even a nice guy... but reading between the lines, I'm assuming that nice guys are the ones she liked that she felt were 'good enough' for her and "Nice Guys" were the ones she strung along, used them for what she needed them for and ultimately treated them like crap because they weren't good enough. Now she's justifying her reckless, insensitive and abusive behaviour. Not to sound like I'm projecting anything of myself here (honest) but I've seen this nonsense in real life so many times that it's not even funny. Unfortunately there are some women out there who'll go out with guys and treat them like s**t solely for an ego boost. Two sides to every story is all I'm saying. Ask yourself - why would the author have such an extensive knowledge of "Nice Guys"... surely she'd have learned to avoid them by now?

Wibbs · 19-05-2010 10:09AM

TitoPuente wrote: »

It reads as one side of a story to me. And how exactly is poor personal hygiene specific to these "Nice Guys" that she's categorised? How is it even relevant to her point? She seems to talk about it a lot as if to demonise certain men that she didn't like enough by essentially calling them 'smelly'. Very mature.

Yea I picked that one up alright. Plus the first example in her high school, where first she said she was friends with the guy and next she says he only went for her for surface attraction and couldnt know who she was. For a start that does not compute unless she has different definitions of friendship. Secondly, word to the wise Nice/nice/bad boys nearly always go for your looks first and then figure out if the personality clicks. Exactly the same as women too BTW. Women are far more likely to come out with "love at first sight", "our eyes met across a crowded room and I just knew" or "I felt the spark" than men. Hate to break it down, but that's entirely based on looks, the itch down below, with a small side order of personality that's only in play when you actually talk. In that case you're more ready to start bating aquare pegs into round holes. To be fair to the author, she kinda poo pooed the love at first sight BS.

I wouldn't consider myself a "Nice Guy" or even a nice guy... but reading between the lines, I'm assuming that nice guys are the ones she liked that she felt were 'good enough' for her and "Nice Guys" were the ones she strung along, used them for what she needed them for and ultimately treated them like crap because they weren't good enough.

Men can do similar. Ive known enough men who after being introduced to a genuinely nice woman have crossed her off the list, simply because she wasnt considered good enough. Which usually means not pretty enough.

Now she's justifying her reckless, insensitive and abusive behaviour. Not to sound like I'm projecting anything of myself here (honest) but I've seen this nonsense in real life so many times that it's not even funny. Unfortunately there are some women out there who'll go out with guys and treat them like s**t solely for an ego boost.

Oh so have I. Both genders do it though. Women do it more yes, but that's down to more opportunity. Women get approached more. Women at 18 are usually more socially mature than men. Its a numbers game more than anything. Of the men Ive known who did it they strung women along sexually rather than emotionally and because they were more socially clued in and attractive they had enough willing women to get away with it. T

wo sides to every story is all I'm saying.

I agree.

Ask yourself - why would the author have such an extensive knowledge of "Nice Guys"... surely she'd have learned to avoid them by now?

True.

All that said she does have a point about a certain type of usually young socially and sexually inexperienced man. That all too often becomes bitter from this. IMHO the "truth" lies somewhere between the two articles.

OP question? Not really. Im more a bollox tbh.

Table Top Joe · 19-05-2010 10:48AM

liah wrote: »

It's a shame what Thaedydal posted is so long, as not many people will actually finish it, but it is so, so, SO damn true.

Agree 100% with whoever wrote that. 110%. That type of nice guy drives me nuts, and I can definitely tell the difference between a legitimately nice guy and a nice guy like the one in that blog post.

Now if only all these self-proclaimed "nice guys" would just read it and cop the hell on and stop making wild accusations about the type of men women go for.. oh, a girl can only dream.

Im a guy but id have to agree with the above,ive worked with a lot of women for years and (like to)think ive gotten some insight into womens minds(not enough to get laid anytime recently mind you....but i digress)

Anywho,some of the "nice guys" out there arent really nice guys,theyre pathetic,ive known some of them,one in particular was puzzled about why his girlfriend had left him and he couldnt get another,as he told me "i dont get it,i do everything for her,buy her presents all the time,i phone her every few hours..." and so on,basically the clingiest man youve ever met in your life,he never gave his girlfriend or any girl he's fancied since a moments peace,and when they didnt appreciate it they were naturally,bitches,he was by the far the worst but they are out there

Having said that there are women who go for assholes,no two ways about it,one i knew was constantly moaning about men and how theyre all assholes "no theyre not,you just keep going for dickheads,its your own fault" i said(taking me out of the pathetic nice guy category thank God)

So....lost my train of thought there.....that article is right,the first one is written by a bitter loser,women arent looking for a pushover,thats the main thing to learn here i think,same way as men arent looking for a drinking buddy....but thats another argument

PK2008 · 19-05-2010 12:24PM

Used to be a nice guy, then after a few set backs stopped caring and became a bit of a bad boy for a while. Now Im comfortable enough to be nice to and to care for those who deserve it and tell the rest to take a hike.

But without a doubt I got the most women of my life during my 'bad boy' phase. Sorry but its the truth.

CDfm · 19-05-2010 01:11PM

Thats sensible PK2008

There is a difference between being a nice"but firm" guy and being gullible.

Some girls are like Eddie Hobbs -"short hands, deep pockets" but not the majority.

Thibor · 19-05-2010 01:52PM

Do people seriously still thank of themselves as Nice Guys/Girls or Bad Boys/Girls?

It seems to me to be a bit of a childish title to be giving themselves.
When I was younger I used to class myself as a nice guy (read that really really long article and ended up comfusing which nice guy was the real nice guy), and I think to a certain extent, the author kind of contradicted herself and got a little petty and immature with the smelly comments.

Sorry, I drifted away from my point there.

Basically, treat people the way you expect to be treated. Yeah, the odd time it's ok to listen to a friend about their problems, and to help out with stuff, but you ALWAYS know when the pi$$ is getting taken, and they're taking advantage. The big issue the the fact that people lack the nerve to do something about it, they'd rather just go along with things, pretending to themselves and other that their happy with how things are going. Grow up and face facts, if you don't do something about your situation, then it'll never get resolved. True, it might not end in roses, but at the end of the day, at least you'll know where you stand and you can decided where to go from there, do you ACTUALLY like this person enough to stay friends once you know there's no future relationship, or does this person really mean enough to you to carry on as "just friends"

Apologies if my not so mini rant wasn't quite articulate enough, but I realised all the above a long time ago, and I just don't understand how people are still going through the same thing. Ok, I get it that teenagers and maybe those in their early 20's might get caught up in this, but anyone over that age needs to really sit down and think about things

DevilsBreath · 19-05-2010 02:23PM

I have been in every relationship. Which is why I’ve stopped bothering.

I broke it off with my last one as I was just being taken advantage of, 4 years of my life lost right there.

Single life is so much easier, has some huge draw backs though.

Greyfox · 19-05-2010 04:02PM

Thibor wrote: »

but I realised all the above a long time ago, and I just don't understand how people are still going through the same thing. Ok, I get it that teenagers and maybe those in their early 20's might get caught up in this, but anyone over that age needs to really sit down and think about things

Yes you realised this a long time ago but theirs loads of guys out their that take many, many years to realise this (I took a while myself) theirs plenty of these poor sods in their late 20's and early 30's out their that still have not copped on and some that never will, I feel so sorry for these idiots. This thread is very interesting because theirs so many nice guys out their and all it takes is for these guys to stop been nice and agreeable all the time, stop been a doormat for women and to stop trying too hard. Once they learn this very important life lesson their success with women will improve very, very quickly.

liah · 19-05-2010 04:35PM

I think it's actually the motive that's the turn-off for us.

These "nice guys" aren't being nice because they're naturally nice.. they're being nice because they want to get their end out of it. Then they turn bitter when it's seen through and they're left with nothing, and it just turns into a vicious cycle that a few apparently can't seem to get out of.

Women love nice guys. Legitimately nice guys. Not once who are only nice to get into our pants. That's the difference, imo.

d'Oracle · 19-05-2010 04:43PM

liah wrote: »

I think it's actually the motive that's the turn-off for us.

These "nice guys" aren't being nice because they're naturally nice.. they're being nice because they want to get their end out of it. Then they turn bitter when it's seen through and they're left with nothing, and it just turns into a vicious cycle that a few apparently can't seem to get out of.

Women love nice guys. Legitimately nice guys. Not once who are only nice to get into our pants. That's the difference, imo.

So its not that women don't like nice guys, just that they don't like nice guys who want to have sex with them.

Nice, classy.

minidazzler · 19-05-2010 04:44PM

liah wrote: »

I think it's actually the motive that's the turn-off for us.

These "nice guys" aren't being nice because they're naturally nice.. they're being nice because they want to get their end out of it. Then they turn bitter when it's seen through and they're left with nothing, and it just turns into a vicious cycle that a few apparently can't seem to get out of.

Women love nice guys. Legitimately nice guys. Not once who are only nice to get into our pants. That's the difference, imo.

The problem here is that some guys are legitimately, naturally nice AND want to get into your pants. That doesn't stop us/them being nice, but it can then be seen that they are nice BECAUSE they want in.

19-05-2010 05:11PM

liah wrote: »

I think it's actually the motive that's the turn-off for us.

These "nice guys" aren't being nice because they're naturally nice.. they're being nice because they want to get their end out of it. Then they turn bitter when it's seen through and they're left with nothing, and it just turns into a vicious cycle that a few apparently can't seem to get out of.

Women love nice guys. Legitimately nice guys. Not once who are only nice to get into our pants. That's the difference, imo.

that's not really true, what if a woman found a lovely guy who was really nice but had a really low sex drive so he genuinely wasn't just interested in getting into her pants, bet she'd be delighted, NOT :eek:

Abi · 19-05-2010 05:20PM

Thaedydal wrote: »

Or the nice guy then becomes an asshole, or a pretend nice guy

liah wrote: »

I think it's actually the motive that's the turn-off for us.

These "nice guys" aren't being nice because they're naturally nice.. they're being nice because they want to get their end out of it.

Fake niceness repulses me beyond words.

There has to be a good balance tbh. I wouldn't be able to stick a guy who would follow me around like a lapdog, spouting nicities, and in constant contact. That would bore the shit out of me tbh. I'd never go for a straight forward Mr Nice Guy, because I'll be the first to admit that I'm not all sweetness and light myself. I look out for people I care about, but I have my flaws, and certainly don't pretend to be something I'm not.

A guy that can do the same = win in my eyes.

CDfm · 19-05-2010 05:21PM

minidazzler wrote: »

The problem here is that some guys are legitimately, naturally nice AND want to get into your pants. That doesn't stop us/them being nice, but it can then be seen that they are nice BECAUSE they want in.

I think this falls into that bit that says -dont take candy from strangers.

If a woman does not have a real interest in a guy she should not accept regular treats from him on the basis that he is generous in a boyfriend/girlfriend style way not unless she is a registered charity- like paying for dinners drinks tickets holidays.As a general rule its not a bad one because if a guy is doing that he certainly has the "love".

That definately gives the wrong message out.

WB Yeats had a bad touch of the Maude Gonne's -unrequited love my old english teacher called it and she went off with bad boy McBride. I wonder if he took her to any premieres at the Gaiety or weekends at Lissadel. Countess Markiewicz married her bohemian artist polish "count" who may have not been a bad boy but her family were worried that it gave out the right image and were concerned about the legitamacy of his noble title.

So its not a recent thing.

d'Oracle · 19-05-2010 05:27PM

CDfm wrote: »

WB Yeats had a bad touch of the Maude Gonne's -unrequited love my old english teacher called it and she went off with bad boy McBride. I wonder if he took her to any premieres at the Gaiety or weekends at Lissadel.

My ladies granny knew Maude Gonne. There was apparently more to the story than a certain poet let on. The granny was not a fan.

LegacyUser · 19-05-2010 05:33PM

I'm posting anonymously here instead of my usual username because what im about to say is pretty embarrassing from a guy's point of view and i don't want it associated with my boards account!

Neway, I don't think those assessments capture every scenario.

I've always had loads of girl mates. Always. And I would be able to split those into those I think physically attractive enough to hook up with, and those who aren't. But that distinction doesnt make any difference to who i'd call up for a dvd etc whatsoever. So the argument of "being nice to get into someones pants" and "just being genuinely nice" just doesn't make any sense to me.

But i have been at the receiving end of a very good friend's rejection:

To make a long story short, I got to know this girl and quickly established we were very similar and she quickly became one of my best girl mates. At this point I had no attraction to her at all.
We were really good mates for years and i would enjoy getting her an hilarious xmas present based on something she'd mentioned before + a private joke between us. Or giving her a lift to the party we were going to etc. But it was only when one of her girl friends said to me on a night out drunkenly "i think you love so and so", and it occurred to me that yes, i was attracted to her!
That didnt really change anything though and i was quite happy the way things were until one night out maybe a year or two later when i needlessly said, well i dont want to actually write it cuz i get embarrassed thinking about it, but basically asked her what she thought of "us". There was no need to either because i knew there was nothing there, and i was doing just fine with other girls, but was curious anyway. What i wasn't ready for was the crushing and sickening feeling i instantly got when what i thought, was confirmed by her. I REALLY wasnt expecting the feeling of sickening realisation that despite how close we were, we'd never be closer!
Anyway, after a week (or maybe two, cant remember) of slight awkwardness, everything was fine. And now she'd still be my best girl mate, certainly in the top 3. And i can safely say that i dont fancy her anymore too. Not "no! i dont fancy her!" out of spite or embarrasment, but simply the attraction fizzled out and she's simply a good mate now.

So for that reason i also think the idea of being good mates with a girl purely due to attraction is bollox. I went through the whole cycle and am still v good mates with her! The attraction thing is probably just something guys reach due to "long exposure" to someone i reckon.

God i hope no one i know reads this and figures out who i am!

CDfm · 19-05-2010 05:38PM

d'Oracle wrote: »

My ladies granny knew Maude Gonne. There was apparently more to the story than a certain poet let on. The granny was not a fan.

Ha -and post 69 too.

I always wondered about the ambiguity of the phrase "beauty like a tightened bow" :rolleyes:

liah · 19-05-2010 05:40PM

Way to miss the point, guys :eek:

If he's being nice JUST to get her, instead of out of his own good nature, then it's a turn-off, because it's fake. Fake = lying. Lying = bad. Simple?

Nice guys, are you one? were you one?

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